Post by harpospoke on Nov 29, 2017 20:52:56 GMT
harpospoke
That is still true. Capt America was somewhat known but the GA were no more aware of Iron Man than they were of Ant-Man.
You keep saying that as if that means the GA knew who Iron Man was. Lots of characters are in cartoons and video games. Cyborg from DC is one example. Doesn't mean the GA knows who he is.
There is a reason why no other studio was willing to make an Iron Man movie even though it would have been LESS risky for them. Marvel did it when the situation was FAR more risky.
Spider-man was originally going to be made by Cannon Films, it didn't happen, 21st Century was going to do it, it didn't happen, then it was going to be made by Carolco Pictures and James Cameron was going to do it, it didn't happen, finally Columbia Pictures got it and it happened.. That movie was planned since 1985 and it never happened.
After Superman 4, there were several projects. Superman 5, Superman Reborn, Superman Lives, Superman vs Batman and Superman Flyby, none of them got made.
That is just what happens.
You forgot the mention the huge difference. The Spider-Man rights did not go back to Marvel because no studio cared enough to keep them. That happened with Iron Man. And there is a reason why that happened. If Iron Man was as big as you claim, obviously the rights would have been worth keeping. We actually know what happened so you can't rewrite history on that one.
So the idea that anyone was expecting over 200m for IM is just revisionist history...much less over 300m.
Otherwise it's true that most didn't think it was going to be as successful as it was but I do recall most expecting the movie to make in the $300 million range worldwide, less than the X-men movies and about on par with what Fantastic Four, Batman Begins and Superman Returns. Of course that was all on Box Office Mojo and those forums are long gone.
It was definitely more successful than people expected but people expected it to do pretty well.
You are talking about projections AFTER the trailer and subsequent reactions that led to increased tracking numbers. All that is a result of Marvel doing it right with an unknown character.
Our conversation is about Marvel taking a huge risk with a B list character as a launching point for a new studio when other established studios passed on it. Obviously no one "expected" anything like 200m+ for an Iron Man movie prior to that or Marvel never would have gotten the rights back.
It's exactly the point. Risk is about money. When you have more money there is less risk. Fox was obviously in a better financial situation than Marvel when they started making CMBs.
Where is their R rated movie now? Why are they not making a smaller budgeted R rated Hulk sequel or a $50 million budget R rated Blade movie?
We all know what the situation with Hulk is so not sure why you are even asking that one. Their MCU is kinda a full plate at the moment so where do you propose they wedge in a Blade movie? Netflix makes sense. (I notice you never mention their R rated stuff on Netflix)
This is just searching for something to complain about.
And we were talking about the risks Marvel has been taking from the very beginning. A much bigger risk than what Fox was taking when they started making X movies. And that's not close. Fox was an established studio with room to fail AND had a bigger property to work with. X-men was a bigger deal than Iron Man in every way. (Shows how pitiful Fox is that they've never been able to make the X-men as popular as Marvel made Iron Man)
Fox has two R rated movies now. DCEU has the R rated cut of Batman vs Superman. Sony is making an R rated Venom movie (a villain movie as well). So where is Marvels? They have 20 movies planned after Phase 3, will any of them be R rated?
You keep retreating to that as if it means something. There is nothing inherently superior about R rated movies. Your entire argument is based on nothing here.
This looks like a certain group of people found one thing Marvel didn't do and suddenly have elevated it to an absurd level of importance. You even act like it's a big deal that DC has a home video R rated movie. If they are so "brave"...why didn't they release that in theaters instead of the PG-13 version? We know the answer to that, don't we?
Fox waited 17 years to do an R rated movie and reduced the budget to do it so that's not "brave" either. It's business as usual in Hollywood. All made into a fake "accomplishment" for this ridiculous fanboy campaign.
So Marvel still has 11 years to be as "brave" as Fox was with a reduced budget R rated movie.
You were all over the place here. You are actually trying to make it sound like Fox didn't lower the budgets for the R rated movies. (nudge...they did) You even acknowledged why they did it while denying it was a factor. That's pretty funny.
Exactly. There wasn't any risk. They lowered the budget to make up for the fact that R rated movies make less on average. You know exactly how this works in Hollywood.
The Wolverine as a PG-13 made about three and a half times it's budget. They never needed to make a R rated sequel. They could have easily have just kept it a PG-13 and it would have still been a guaranteed success. They were not playing it safe when they took what was a traditionally PG-13 series which had all been successful and then made an R rated sequel which is something that I can recall only happening once before with Alien vs Predator Requiem which bombed.
The Wolverine made that money because?...they had already lowered the budget. (Because they somehow couldn't make Wolverine as big as Iron Man, Thor, Capt America...that's how pathetic Fox is)
They then lowered the budget AGAIN for the R rated version...which of course came AFTER Ryan Reynolds proved it could work first. This imaginary "bravery" you are inventing did not really exist. That's exactly how Hollywood always makes R rated movies.
Marvel simply haven't made an R rated movie with a lesser budget at all.
Which of course means nothing. Fake complaint.
Sure they did. It's just an incredible coincidence that they had made nothing but PG-13 X-men films for 17 years...including TWO Wolverine films...and then suddenly decided Wolverine needed to be rated R. What are the odds?
"Insiders say the as-yet untitled Wolverine threequel, which James Mangold begins shooting in a month, was always designed as a movie that would receive an R from the ratings board once finished because of the level of violence (and likely language) in the script written by Michael Green."
That is all you can go on.
No..."all we can go on" is what happened. We don't need rumors because we know what happened in reality. Fox didn't make an R rated movie for 17 years and then suddenly got interested after RR made Deadpool work. They then do what everyone does...they lowered the budget to offset the risk of an R rated movie.
Marvel hired an indie director and made a risky movie. So that's really not the same thing at all.
Another ridiculous opinion. Of course it was risky. They let an indie director make his kind of movie...that had proved to have a small audience. They had no evidence that he could appeal to a mass audience and still gave him a massive budget...that's risk that Fox would never touch.
5 movies and they haven't killed any of their heroes? What exactly are they waiting on? I see you don't want to count the DC movies going back to 1978....and we are still waiting for a DC hero to die. (Remember we can't count Superman or Batman since they came back)
This is about movies with heroes in them. You claim we need "stakes"....well there have never been any "stakes" in DC movies either. But of course you don't use that fake complaint on anything that isn't Marvel.
Coulson dies and comes back=doesn't count
Superman dies and comes back=it counts
It's really too obvious what your agenda is here.
So tell me....did the Nolan trilogy "not have stakes" too? Batman didn't die. He fake died and came back just like Superman. Nolan killed off villains just like Marvel does.
Oh how "brave" to release an R rated version on home video.
Marvel hasn't had an epic fail movie yet where they have to think up a gimmick for home video to try and salvage the mess. When that happens (yes...everyone fails eventually) they probably will have to resort to a gimmick like that.
And again....you are bragging about a home video R rated release as if that is something "brave". Seriously?
And....you still are pretending an R rated movie is some kind of achievement or "brave". The whole idea is silly.
A movie based on villains??
Where is DC's movie based on Norse Gods or Sorcerers?
Where is the DC movie with a black cast?
Nice try. DC "announced" everything and did nothing. So they are waiting to do the Cyborg movie after Marvel proved it can work. And let's see if they are brave enough to do it with a black cast like Marvel did with BP. (this is all fake accomplishments but I'm playing along)
Let me guess....the Captain Marvel movie won't count for Marvel because DC did WW first...did I guess right? lol... You Marvel haters are too easy.
Where is the DC movie about Norse Gods?
Oh so they copied Marvel! (again)
Where is the DC movie set in space?
Again after Marvel did it first.
Where is the DC movie about a minor character like Ant-Man or Dr Strange?
Umm...no. That would be Harley Quinn and the Joker. (that's how they marketed it...people were surprised the Joker was barely in it)
Or do you mean the character that was played by one of the biggest stars of the past 20 years? Oh how brave!
Why would anyone need an R rated Iron Man or Cap movie? Silly claim.
Yeah because the Capt America movies just somehow don't work in PG-13. Same with Batman movies. Both really failed.
Fake complaint.
Wolverine works in R. And Fox was too scared to do it until Deadpool proved it was viable. You need to explain why those first 2 Wolverine movies were PG-13 if you are claiming Fox is so "brave".
17 years later and 3 movies in they suddenly were inspired to make him rated R. ....Right after DP proved it would work by an amazing coincidence.
R rated movies have a lower budget so they aren't any more risky than a PG-13 movie.
Why would they need one? Fake complaint. Where is Fox's X rated movie?
It really is a huge compliment to Marvel that all these fake complaints were invented. There is actually very little valid reason to criticize them.
There is nothing inherently superior about an R rated movie.