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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Dec 8, 2017 0:05:48 GMT
Falcon actually could be played by anyone, regardless of race. T'challa is a completely different character. He's from a part of Africa that's completely cut off from the world. A white actor wouldn't make sense unless they completely changed everything about the character. What about Nick Fury? And they could have said Black Panther was a white child adopted by blacks. Why not? If race isn't important. The original point remains intact-if the secondary characters' races dont matter then the same applies for Wakanda as it does for Asgard since humans interacting with humans form different nations is a lot easier and feasible than what aliens do.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Dec 8, 2017 1:22:14 GMT
Falcon actually could be played by anyone, regardless of race. T'challa is a completely different character. He's from a part of Africa that's completely cut off from the world. A white actor wouldn't make sense unless they completely changed everything about the character. What about Nick Fury? And they could have said Black Panther was a white child adopted by blacks. Why not? If race isn't important. The original point remains intact-if the secondary characters' races dont matter then the same applies for Wakanda as it does for Asgard since humans interacting with humans form different nations is a lot easier and feasible than what aliens do. The Nick Fury we have in the films was based on the ultimate version on the comics that was modeled after Samuel L Jackson. So yeah why wouldn't they use him? SLJ is awesome! Wakanda is a country that is hidden from outsiders. No way a white baby is going to show up. Also T'challa is from a long bloodline of Kings. There's a reason he's Black Panther.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Dec 8, 2017 1:30:38 GMT
The Nick Fury we have in the films was based on the ultimate version on the comics that was modeled after Samuel L Jackson. So yeah why wouldn't they use him? SLJ is awesome! Wakanda is a country that is hidden from outsiders. No way a white baby is going to show up. Also T'challa is from a long bloodline of Kings. There's a reason he's Black Panther. There is a reason Nick Fury was pale too. And Valkyrie etc. They just chose to ignore the reasons in those cases.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Dec 8, 2017 10:27:54 GMT
The Nick Fury we have in the films was based on the ultimate version on the comics that was modeled after Samuel L Jackson. So yeah why wouldn't they use him? SLJ is awesome! Wakanda is a country that is hidden from outsiders. No way a white baby is going to show up. Also T'challa is from a long bloodline of Kings. There's a reason he's Black Panther. There is a reason Nick Fury was pale too. And Valkyrie etc. They just chose to ignore the reasons in those cases. In Nick Fury case, they obviously wanted to cash in on a popular actor who actually has a version of the character modeled after him. If I was in charge I would have done exactly the same thing. By the way that casting happen before Disney bought Marvel. As for valkyrie, it has been said over and over again that they audition multiple women for the part and they liked Tessa out of all them. It happens all the time in Hollywood. If Marvel Studios and Disney truly have a anti white agenda than explain the following to me: Why is a large portion of their heroes mostly white men? Why did they cast iron fist with a white actor and not an Asian actor? Why did they cast a black man to play a future villain to a white hero? Why did they cast a black man to play a door man who served a white king? Why did it take them 10 years to make a black panther movie? Why did use black villains for Luke Cage? Why not use white villains? Maybe it's because you're full of shit. Maybe just maybe your a paranoid man, who buys into the crazy conspiracy theories from jackass's like Alex Jones.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Dec 8, 2017 16:24:14 GMT
As for valkyrie, it has been said over and over again that they audition multiple women for the part and they liked Tessa out of all them. It happens all the time in Hollywood. If Marvel Studios and Disney truly have a anti white agenda than explain the following to me: Why is a large portion of their heroes mostly white men? Your denial is idiotic because you know as well as I do that they could have cast a white man for Nick Fury if they wanted and if they wanted a white woman for Valkerye they could have got one. To say they couldnt find one is like saying they let a Mexican audition for Han Solo and wouldnt you know it-they liked him the best. Its a bullshit Wall Street banker answer. They did not want a white woman -end of story. They probably would love to do all black movies but cannot because they realize it would completely shut off any opportunity for merchandising as well as markets in the East (Black Panther and China should be interesting to watch). They (or a rival company with the same anti-white tendencies) blackwashed King Arthur and the movie tanked. As I said before--the anti-white agenda comes through best in how they portray characters. So while Nick Fury and Falcon and Heimdall can be strong and assertive and have no neurosis or daddy issues-this is not true of the white males. Captain America feels out of place, Thor is a little dumb and the butt of jokes. You can deny it but you cannot disprove it. They wanted to blackwash Asgard but not Wakanda. It has nothing to do with coincidence. They do not like depictions of a white homogeneous society. They dont mind a depiction of a homogeneous Africa even if it is ludicrous. You can easily disprove this by showing a recent movie made by Disney where the cast is entirely white or Black Panther in reverse.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2017 23:18:26 GMT
As for valkyrie, it has been said over and over again that they audition multiple women for the part and they liked Tessa out of all them. It happens all the time in Hollywood. If Marvel Studios and Disney truly have a anti white agenda than explain the following to me: Why is a large portion of their heroes mostly white men? Your denial is idiotic because you know as well as I do that they could have cast a white man for Nick Fury if they wanted and if they wanted a white woman for Valkerye they could have got one. To say they couldnt find one is like saying they let a Mexican audition for Han Solo and wouldnt you know it-they liked him the best. Its a bullshit Wall Street banker answer. They did not want a white woman -end of story. They probably would love to do all black movies but cannot because they realize it would completely shut off any opportunity for merchandising as well as markets in the East (Black Panther and China should be interesting to watch). They (or a rival company with the same anti-white tendencies) blackwashed King Arthur and the movie tanked. As I said before--the anti-white agenda comes through best in how they portray characters. So while Nick Fury and Falcon and Heimdall can be strong and assertive and have no neurosis or daddy issues-this is not true of the white males. Captain America feels out of place, Thor is a little dumb and the butt of jokes. You can deny it but you cannot disprove it. They wanted to blackwash Asgard but not Wakanda. It has nothing to do with coincidence. They do not like depictions of a white homogeneous society. They dont mind a depiction of a homogeneous Africa even if it is ludicrous. You can easily disprove this by showing a recent movie made by Disney where the cast is entirely white or Black Panther in reverse. Captain America feels out of place because he's unwilling to set his morals aside in a gray-on-gray morality world. He's the most upstanding individual in the whole series, and is white. He's not neurotic. He's intelligent, sensitive, and observant.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Dec 9, 2017 0:29:58 GMT
Captain America feels out of place because he's unwilling to set his morals aside in a gray-on-gray morality world. He's the most upstanding individual in the whole series, and is white. He's not neurotic. He's intelligent, sensitive, and observant. He's following. Black Widow led him around Winter Soldier. He has to be rescued by Winter Soldier. In Civil War he is fighting other heroes and the government (and has help) so its not even a traditional good vs bad scenario being presented. Not a confident character which is what I was saying. The Man With No Name was confident, Lots of confident heroes in traditional media representations--but not welcome in Big Hollywood. Most curious if the Black Panther has a crew or is able to be a strong character on his own. I expect the latter.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2017 1:11:41 GMT
Captain America feels out of place because he's unwilling to set his morals aside in a gray-on-gray morality world. He's the most upstanding individual in the whole series, and is white. He's not neurotic. He's intelligent, sensitive, and observant. He's following. Black Widow led him around Winter Soldier. He has to be rescued by Winter Soldier. In Civil War he is fighting other heroes and the government (and has help) so its not even a traditional good vs bad scenario being presented. Not a confident character which is what I was saying. The Man With No Name was confident, Lots of confident heroes in traditional media representations--but not welcome in Big Hollywood. Most curious if the Black Panther has a crew or is able to be a strong character on his own. I expect the latter. No, he's willing to listen to others and will defer leadership in circumstances where one of the people around him is more experienced in something than he is. Black Widow is a professional spy while he's not. It has nothing to do with being Alpha or Beta. Its pure pragmatism. Everyone needs help sometimes. And Bucky owed him one for the save Steve made during World War II. You say that he had help in "Civil War" and that it wasn't a traditional good vs. evil scenerio like that's a bad thing. Better someone who second guesses themselves than someone with so much confidence that it borders on arrogance.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Dec 9, 2017 1:18:00 GMT
You say that he had help in "Civil War" and that it wasn't a traditional good vs. evil scenerio like that's a bad thing. Better someone who second guesses themselves than someone with so much confidence that it borders on arrogance. The bigger picture is the stories they choose to tell and how it presents the characters. They could have done a traditional adventure story but instead they went the Liberal SJW route (though Marvel always had that liberal strain, but a lot of the time it was so subtle especially in a one shot story with a villain). They chose not to present Captain America in a leadership hero posture--even in a movie with his name on it. Let's see if the Black Panther is more solo (I want to compare it to First Avenger but I cant because it seems this is not an origin story so he will be the hero from the beginning-and cant forget that Steve Rogers started out rather beta in body if not mind, I dont think T'Challa did--he was the alpha male of the tribe).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2017 1:27:26 GMT
Throwing around juvenile insults means nothing to me since I have no respect for the person making them. You need to refute the point raised to declare victory, but I guess you have beta qualities yourself when it comes to intellectual debate. Ironic. I'm not going to bother with you to any serious extent. You've already made up your mind and have a very rigid, elitist way of thinking that doesn't allow you to look for qualifies outside of stereotypical macho man attributes. You're the sort of guy who'd look at another man being kind, generous, and non-authoritarian to those weaker than him and assume he's a wimp for not muscling his way into getting what he wants.
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Post by formersamhmd on Dec 9, 2017 1:27:44 GMT
You say that he had help in "Civil War" and that it wasn't a traditional good vs. evil scenerio like that's a bad thing. Better someone who second guesses themselves than someone with so much confidence that it borders on arrogance. The bigger picture is the stories they choose to tell and how it presents the characters. They could have done a traditional adventure story but instead they went the Liberal SJW route (though Marvel always had that liberal strain, but a lot of the time it was so subtle especially in a one shot story with a villain). They chose not to present Captain America in a leadership hero posture--even in a movie with his name on it. Let's see if the Black Panther is more solo (I want to compare it to First Avenger but I cant because it seems this is not an origin story so he will be the hero from the beginning-and cant forget that Steve Rogers started out rather beta in body if not mind, I dont think T'Challa did--he was the alpha male of the tribe). So, you're upset that they didn't take the lazy way out and make the hero with his name on the title the invincible infallible hero?
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Dec 9, 2017 1:34:27 GMT
I'm not going to bother with you to any serious extent. You've already made up your mind and have a very rigid, elitist way of thinking that doesn't allow you to look for qualifies outside of stereotypical macho man attributes. You're the sort of guy who'd look at another man being kind, generous, and non-authoritarian to those weaker than him and assume he's a wimp for not muscling his way into getting what he wants. Lots of movies where Clint Eastwood played kind characters. He even rescued a mouse in one film. Franco Nero wept in a movie. But we are talking about superheroes-juvenile fantasy etc. The number one expectation with such a genre is fantastic situations and simplistic drama. Instead, we often get not so memorable action and very trite drama with an obvious SJW agenda. It has nothing to do with wanting a macho man action character. How about it just being more fun?
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Dec 9, 2017 1:35:54 GMT
So, you're upset that they didn't take the lazy way out and make the hero with his name on the title the invincible infallible hero? No, I am more concerned about the double standard (though the comics had it too, but it wasn't as blatant). Right now I am just waiting to see how much the Black Panther lives up to the prediction.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2017 1:38:22 GMT
I'm not going to bother with you to any serious extent. You've already made up your mind and have a very rigid, elitist way of thinking that doesn't allow you to look for qualifies outside of stereotypical macho man attributes. You're the sort of guy who'd look at another man being kind, generous, and non-authoritarian to those weaker than him and assume he's a wimp for not muscling his way into getting what he wants. Lots of movies where Clint Eastwood played kind characters. He even rescued a mouse in one film. Franco Nero wept in a movie. But we are talking about superheroes-juvenile fantasy etc. The number one expectation with such a genre is fantastic situations and simplistic drama. Instead, we often get not so memorable action and very trite drama with an obvious SJW agenda. It has nothing to do with wanting a macho man action character. How about it just being more fun? It has EVERYTHING to do with wanting a macho man action character. If you think having a lead character that's willing to listen to others and doesn't always demand to be the boss makes these films SJW, then I feel very sorry for you.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Dec 9, 2017 1:45:11 GMT
It has EVERYTHING to do with wanting a macho man action character. If you think having a lead character that's willing to listen to others and doesn't always demand to be the boss makes these films SJW, then I feel very sorry for you. I protest the terminology you employ. An alpha character may be a better term-you know, like Nick Fury, the Falcon, the Black Panther. I just get tired of them being limited to a chocolate shade. I would say Bucky Barnes is actually more of one than Steve Rogers but he's all fucked up so once again no paleface contenders in the MCU.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2017 1:49:12 GMT
It has EVERYTHING to do with wanting a macho man action character. If you think having a lead character that's willing to listen to others and doesn't always demand to be the boss makes these films SJW, then I feel very sorry for you. I protest the terminology you employ. An alpha character may be a better term-you know, like Nick Fury, the Falcon, the Black Panther. I just get tired of them being limited to a chocolate shade. I would say Bucky Barnes is actually more of one than Steve Rogers but he's all fucked up so once again no paleface contenders in the MCU. And yet two out of three of those guys chose to follow Steve Rogers's lead. The fact you can't see the beauty in a non-standard hero like Rogers says a lot about you.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Dec 9, 2017 1:56:08 GMT
And yet two out of three of those guys chose to follow Steve Rogers's lead. The fact you can't see the beauty in a non-standard hero like Rogers says a lot about you. Lots of people followed Bush and Blair even though they are betas. That is nothing to brag about. I am just tired of all the false alpha characters in modern movies. Even Logan is strapped with the SJW. Bruce Wayne was a little better but not by much. If it was only Captain America or Thor or Tony Stark but its found across the cinema spectrum. And yet people still regard Leone westerns highly-I am surprised they dont call it fascist cinema.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2017 1:58:43 GMT
And yet two out of three of those guys chose to follow Steve Rogers's lead. The fact you can't see the beauty in a non-standard hero like Rogers says a lot about you. Lots of people followed Bush and Blair even though they are betas. That is nothing to brag about. I am just tired of all the false alpha characters in modern movies. Even Logan is strapped with the SJW. Bruce Wayne was a little better but not by much. If it was only Captain America or Thor or Tony Stark but its found across the cinema spectrum. And yet people still regard Leone westerns highly-I am surprised they dont call it fascist cinema. "False alpha". ![](https://s26.postimg.org/480s321zt/eyes.gif) You are hopeless. Like I said, you have a very rigid view of makes for a real man and it doesn't allow for anything remotely resembling actual humanity.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Dec 9, 2017 2:31:34 GMT
Disney is ironically our future's Buy n Large.
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Post by justanaveragejoe on Dec 9, 2017 4:02:44 GMT
This post has been deleted. This conversation is inappropriate for this board. scabab justanaveragejoe, clean up on isle seven. Isle cleaned. Hee hee hee...
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