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Post by OldSamVimes on Mar 7, 2017 18:18:25 GMT
The residential schools get me more angry.
Thousands and thousands of native children taken from their families and forced to abandon their native beliefs and worship Jesus.. All sorts of horrific abuse, decades of trauma were inflicted on them.
It was the deliberate destruction of an entire culture, and a religion that is supposed to be about love played a big part in it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 18:19:40 GMT
No surprise there. The catholic church is a truly evil organisation. I think what confuses me about this whole thing is the rate at which the kids seemed to die... malnutrition, neglect... maybe the parish was impoverished but the church certainly wasn't. If it came down from the Vatican in some fashion that the sisterhood was encouraged to "liberate" these kids from their unwed mothers, I'd expect a rich organization like the Vatican to provide for them. Otherwise what was the point? The vatican doesn't spend money it doesn't have to.
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Post by Cinemachinery on Mar 7, 2017 18:22:03 GMT
From the evangelical point of view, forcing the kids to abandon their old beliefs and worship Jesus was a gesture of love.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 7, 2017 18:31:14 GMT
No surprise there. The catholic church is a truly evil organisation. I think what confuses me about this whole thing is the rate at which the kids seemed to die... malnutrition, neglect... maybe the parish was impoverished but the church certainly wasn't. If it came down from the Vatican in some fashion that the sisterhood was encouraged to "liberate" these kids from their unwed mothers, I'd expect a rich organization like the Vatican to provide for them. Otherwise what was the point? I was always under the impression that various Catholic organizations were largely self-sustaining which is why Ireland's record is sucky in particular.
Would the nuns who ran it, assuming they are horrible people, actually even ask the pope about what to do with all the dead babies?
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Post by Cinemachinery on Mar 7, 2017 18:37:57 GMT
Then where did the instructions to "liberate" babies from their unwed mothers come from? It wasn't limited to one location, so it seems it was concerted in some fashion. The structure of the Catholic church is tiered... where does the buck stop?
My question is more why not ask the extremely rich church for a means to support the kids they took?
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 7, 2017 18:46:14 GMT
Then where did the instructions to "liberate" babies from their unwed mothers come from? It wasn't limited to one location, so it seems it was concerted in some fashion. The structure of the Catholic church is tiered... where does the buck stop? My question is more why not ask the extremely rich church for a means to support the kids they took? I was still thinking the whole liberate babies was a geographical thing too. I'm not sure the church helps out too much. Churches and diocese dies out all the time and even go bankrupt. The Catholic Charities organizations seems to have to deal with local issues on their own too.
I know nothing of it's structure since I've never been interested in the Catholic Church in any serious way it seems to me that they operate like franchises - Following the wishes of the church to a degree, accepting whoever the church floats their way, & then sort out stuff on their own which is why there are some liberal orders and stricter ones and ones in between.
Blade help us out here since you're a super Catholic in lock step with Trum....errrr....the Pope.
EDIT: Actually Clusium(?) may be pretty knowledgeable on the subject too.
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Post by Cinemachinery on Mar 7, 2017 18:57:05 GMT
Then where did the instructions to "liberate" babies from their unwed mothers come from? It wasn't limited to one location, so it seems it was concerted in some fashion. The structure of the Catholic church is tiered... where does the buck stop? My question is more why not ask the extremely rich church for a means to support the kids they took? I was still thinking the whole liberate babies was a geographical thing too. The fact that authorities have pressed the Vatican for records on the matter at least speaks to an awareness of the situation. Do you feel they were equally uninvolved in the child conversion trafficking in Spain?
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Post by Edward-Elizabeth-Hitler on Mar 7, 2017 19:03:41 GMT
Imagine what you'd have done if you'd been treated like these women having been an unwed mother yourself. I don't have to imagine, there are how many Hollywood movies about it now? (Those movies all mean that it's impossible to know what really happened now) "There are movies about it, therefore I can discount it". Disgusting.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Mar 7, 2017 19:13:27 GMT
Imagine what you'd have done if you'd been treated like these women having been an unwed mother yourself. I don't have to imagine, there are how many Hollywood movies about it now? (Those movies all mean that it's impossible to know what really happened now) Same with WWII. There are lots of Hollywood movies about it, therefore it probably didn't happen.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 7, 2017 19:19:18 GMT
I was still thinking the whole liberate babies was a geographical thing too. The fact that authorities have pressed the Vatican for records on the matter at least speaks to an awareness of the situation. Do you feel they were equally uninvolved in the child conversion trafficking in Spain? Uninvolved is a loaded word until we figure out their level of involvement. In order for the Vatican to be directly involved, the activity would be universal. Maybe it was.
No matter what, the responsibility lies with the Vatican if for no other reason than they didn't have procedures in place to stop it, plus a bishop or two or a dozen had to have known something.
Now if there is a guidebook out there that indicated under no circumstance are you to bury dead babies in old septic tanks, then the culpability becomes less.
I also think the Irish government is at least as responsible if for no other reason than they allowed the orphanage to operate without government guidelines enforced.
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