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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 20:20:44 GMT
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Dec 17, 2017 0:59:26 GMT
Yeah. That pretty much sums it up. But to fair, it's Abrams and Kennedy's vision too.
It's like you said in another post, this trilogy revolves around the tension and inevitability of Kylo and Rey banging each other. And everything else is mostly throwaway. And the Force is basically a facilitator of their love connection.
The poor characterization of Luke - a grumpy hermit Jedi who preaches about his failure until the end of the movie. Then he turned himself into a Force hologram distraction and expired. All through the movie I kept expecting Luke to break out a whiskey jug and start walking around with it.
We finally get to see Snoke in person. He is a compelling character with charismatic evil. This character could've been developed into one the best bad guys in SW based off of what he showed himself to be in TLJ. Nope! He gets whacked off in a rather insignificant manner so Kylo and Rey can start their love connection lightsaber team up. Then show off their connection and skills slaughtering Snoke's throne room guards. Snoke was just a placeholder to give Kylo fake character development in the sense that he advances to the new Supreme Leader. We will never know who the awesomely powerful Snoke was or how he came to be such a powerful Darkside master. Or how he seems to know everything when he was nowhere around in the events of episodes 1 through 6.
Kylo - He's still whiny Darkside Anakin on steroids in a Vader suit. But halfway through the film Snoke hurts Kylo's feelings about his admiration for Vader. And Kylo ditches his helmet and his admiration. The rest of his character development is about his Force orgasm love connection that he has with Rey. Which constantly came through Force visions of each other throughout the film.
Rey continues the MarySue theme by training herself in the Force after she meets Luke. Except for one lesson that Luke gives her in meditation which is sprinkled with Luke's act of "get off my lawn guy" who's going to get his drunk on after this. Her character becomes more well-rounded after that. But also spends a lot of time with her Force love connection visions she shares with Kylo.
The Force: It continued it's progression away from the more confined (or refined) definition of the first 6 SW movies into a clone of Disney magic. Now the Force makes constant love connection visions between Rey and Kylo. Instantaneously and effortlessly. And both Rey and Kylo's story arc provided more "evidence" that training isn't necessary anymore.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Dec 17, 2017 1:26:29 GMT
Now the Force makes constant love connection visions between Rey and Kylo. Instantaneously and effortlessly. Didn't Snoke say he was the one who did that? I disagree on him being charismatic or compelling. His scenes in person just reaffirmed he's a Sidious wannabe (without the self-awareness of Kylo Ren's character) and I'm glad they switched gears and made Kylo the big bad.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Dec 17, 2017 1:51:55 GMT
Now the Force makes constant love connection visions between Rey and Kylo. Instantaneously and effortlessly. Didn't Snoke say he was the one who did that? I disagree on him being charismatic or compelling. His scenes in person just reaffirmed he's a Sidious wannabe (without the self-awareness of Kylo Ren's character) and I'm glad they switched gears and made Kylo the big bad. Yeah, Snoke did elude to being involved in it. But I couldn't disagree with you more about Snoke in person. And the fact that they made Snoke be without self awareness in the scene where he died was bad writing. It was silly and out of character given his power and what of it he displayed onscreen. Snoke was more diabolical and full of ire than Sidious/Palpatine - who was more sinister and two faced. Kylo, on the other hand - looked like the same immature, sulking man-child given to spontaneous temper tantrums and easily hurt feelings. He's just another Darkside Anakin IMO. A more demonstrative version. I just don't find the character compelling outside of this inner conflict between Dark and Light. But unfortunately that comes out in more displays of his fragile brattiness than in ways that effect things you care about in the saga.
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pete8680
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Post by pete8680 on Dec 17, 2017 4:08:08 GMT
I whish I knew how to upload! Id show a pile of pig sh!t.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2017 21:51:52 GMT
Yeah. That pretty much sums it up. But to fair, it's Abrams and Kennedy's vision too. It's like you said in another post, this trilogy revolves around the tension and inevitability of Kylo and Rey banging each other. And everything else is mostly throwaway. And the Force is basically a facilitator of their love connection. The poor characterization of Luke - a grumpy hermit Jedi who preaches about his failure until the end of the movie. Then he turned himself into a Force hologram distraction and expired. All through the movie I kept expecting Luke to break out a whiskey jug and start walking around with it.
We finally get to see Snoke in person. He is a compelling character with charismatic evil. This character could've been developed into one the best bad guys in SW based off of what he showed himself to be in TLJ. Nope! He gets whacked off in a rather insignificant manner so Kylo and Rey can start their love connection lightsaber team up. Then show off their connection and skills slaughtering Snoke's throne room guards. Snoke was just a placeholder to give Kylo fake character development in the sense that he advances to the new Supreme Leader. We will never know who the awesomely powerful Snoke was or how he came to be such a powerful Darkside master. Or how he seems to know everything when he was nowhere around in the events of episodes 1 through 6. Kylo - He's still whiny Darkside Anakin on steroids in a Vader suit. But halfway through the film Snoke hurts Kylo's feelings about his admiration for Vader. And Kylo ditches his helmet and his admiration. The rest of his character development is about his Force orgasm love connection that he has with Rey. Which constantly came through Force visions of each other throughout the film. Rey continues the MarySue theme by training herself in the Force after she meets Luke. Except for one lesson that Luke gives her in meditation which is sprinkled with Luke's act of "get off my lawn guy" who's going to get his drunk on after this. Her character becomes more well-rounded after that. But also spends a lot of time with her Force love connection visions she shares with Kylo. The Force: It continued it's progression away from the more confined (or refined) definition of the first 6 SW movies into a clone of Disney magic. Now the Force makes constant love connection visions between Rey and Kylo. Instantaneously and effortlessly. And both Rey and Kylo's story arc provided more "evidence" that training isn't necessary anymore. I lol'd. Reminds me of a story I heard about Eddie Van Halen once. Yep, they should've just given Luke bottle of Beefeater and gotten it over with.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2017 22:00:28 GMT
Now the Force makes constant love connection visions between Rey and Kylo. Instantaneously and effortlessly. Didn't Snoke say he was the one who did that? I disagree on him being charismatic or compelling. His scenes in person just reaffirmed he's a Sidious wannabe (without the self-awareness of Kylo Ren's character) and I'm glad they switched gears and made Kylo the big bad. You're right on the first sentence. On the other hand, Snoke was awesome. And they also blew a huge plot hole open when they killed him. As Waxer stated, they made a big deal about him being around since the Clone Wars, they made a big deal about him knowing exactly what happened in the throne room in ROTJ when supposedly no one outside Luke's circles knows the truth, but most importantly, he was behind the First Order, which is an organization that exists for a specific purpose. This was Snoke's purpose. So now we have no idea what the architect of the tension in the saga wanted. He started this entire storyline. From a personal level, he's the only reason Kylo is Kylo. From a broader viewpoint, the First Order exists for his designs. So now the First Order is purposeless. Hux was a rich boy trying to show up daddy. Those were his motivations, but now he's been emasculated beyond believable threat. Kylo doesn't give two shits about what the First Order had in mind when the First Order originated and he didn't give two shits about Snoke's designs for the future. So now the First Order has no viable leader and no mission statement. They can keep blowing shit up and doing evil things and we can pretend they are the big bad enemy, but there's no depth of purpose there anymore. That's the point. What makes the big bad interesting is what his motivations and plans are and then how he goes about accomplishing them. Kylo has no plan. He's a boat adrift on the ocean. Just like Star Wars.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Dec 17, 2017 23:38:23 GMT
Didn't Snoke say he was the one who did that? I disagree on him being charismatic or compelling. His scenes in person just reaffirmed he's a Sidious wannabe (without the self-awareness of Kylo Ren's character) and I'm glad they switched gears and made Kylo the big bad. You're right on the first sentence. On the other hand, Snoke was awesome. And they also blew a huge plot hole open when they killed him. As Waxer stated, they made a big deal about him being around since the Clone Wars, they made a big deal about him knowing exactly what happened in the throne room in ROTJ when supposedly no one outside Luke's circles knows the truth, but most importantly, he was behind the First Order, which is an organization that exists for a specific purpose. This was Snoke's purpose. So now we have no idea what the architect of the tension in the saga wanted. He started this entire storyline. From a personal level, he's the only reason Kylo is Kylo. From a broader viewpoint, the First Order exists for his designs. So now the First Order is purposeless. Hux was a rich boy trying to show up daddy. Those were his motivations, but now he's been emasculated beyond believable threat. Kylo doesn't give two shits about what the First Order had in mind when the First Order originated and he didn't give two shits about Snoke's designs for the future. So now the First Order has no viable leader and no mission statement. They can keep blowing shit up and doing evil things and we can pretend they are the big bad enemy, but there's no depth of purpose there anymore. That's the point. What makes the big bad interesting is what his motivations and plans are and then how he goes about accomplishing them. Kylo has no plan. He's a boat adrift on the ocean. Just like Star Wars. I couldn't have said it better myself. Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams deserve to be chased through Starkiller base forest by Snoke's red bodyguards!
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Dec 18, 2017 5:03:36 GMT
All through the movie I kept expecting Luke to break out a whiskey jug and start walking around with it. No that's what Hamill will be doing at conventions in a few months time. And he'll be telling people "Fuck Sprint! You dont save anything in long distance! I know these things! Just fuck it!"
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