did you read dune before seeing the movie(s)?

I read it before seeing the movie. One change in the movie that annoyed me was "His name is a killing word". Ugh.

I read it afterwards... Woah, that's long ago. Do not remember which I liked the best.

IMO Dune is either THE best, or the second best Science Fiction novel ever written.

I always took Dune to be two things. The most obvious aspect, of course, is the analogy to oil. An arab-type race of desert dwellers, threatening a natural resource that the great Empire rests upon - in large part because that resource is the thing that allows modern transportation to work? Yeah.

But also, it's something of a subversion of the hero story. On my first read I just assumed Paul and the Atreides were the good guys - we were following their story, right? They were fighting the nasty Harkonnen, so they must be the good guys.

Only... they're really not. The Duke is popular with his people... but really it's only because he adopts the tactic of acting nice towards them so as to earn their loyalty. It's better for those governed than what the Harkonnen do to their subjects, but the end result is just the same - the Duke is in charge, his word is law, and he is perfectly willing to have his men die for him when he deems it necessary. Paul is the same - "Die for me, because I would die for you... only I never actually have to die for you."

Paul isn't the messiah, he's a man pretending to be a messiah. The entire Fremen religion was a plant, put in place by the Bene Gesserit precisely so as to give them a way to control the Fremen should the need ever arise. Paul and Jessica took those control levers and used them to subvert the entire Fremen society, turning it into an army of fanatics dedicated to putting him on the throne. The reader can easily take it as a "good" plan, just because it's Paul that's doing it and we like Paul. But look at what he allows to be done in his name - "His people scream his name as they leap into battle. The women throw their babies at us and hurl themselves onto our knives to open a wedge for their men to attack us."

Look at it objectively and what Paul does is actually kind of monstrous. I always felt that what Herbert was saying was "You want a hero? Alright, see how you like THIS hero!"

So what you are basically saying is that Dune is a study on the universal use of manipulation.

'The Lawrence analogy suggested to Herbert the possibility for
manipulation of the messianic impulses within a culture by outsiders with ulterior
purposes.'

coincidently, I am reading 'The Age of Faith' by Will Durant and the historic rise of Islam also depended on a large part upon a messianic need of the Middle-East and Asia at this time. And the Arab tribes which where exceedingly small in comparison to the other civilizations surrounding them, filled this void and through it came to dominate them and build a vast empire. 

And of course the ultimate manipulation the folding of space-time "He who controls the spice controls the universe." should probably read “He who controls the spice controls the course of the known universe.” or should we substitute religion for spice-also?

Now I wish that I had just read the book recently, it's been over 20 years ago, for me to dig that deeply on my own but another really insightful post by you. 

Your well thought out posts have convinced me to go out and reread the book again.

I will be starting a new series by Gene Wolfe and it will be reread next after that.

Bringing more maturity and life experience back to the book after so long will defiantly have a large effect on how it will be viewed and appreciated than before, when I was younger it was, o.k that's cool now back to the action and now it is hey, quit with all the action and give me something to chew on.