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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Dec 18, 2017 16:57:35 GMT
What the hell is going on? It's like there's a civil war going on, a especially in the Star Wars subreddit.
People who liked or loved the new film are being bombarded with crazy hate and the people who dislike or hate the new film are either being with hate themselves or even being called Trump supporters.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Dec 18, 2017 17:10:50 GMT
Star Wars is strange in that the "fans" have complained about every movie in the franchise after the first one. The first one by the way was no masterpiece. It was cheesy (laugh it up fuzzball), the acting was weak and the plot was just tropes from King Arthur, Flash Gordon, and Buck Rogers. But that one doesn't get complained about much.
Every other one got tons of complaints. I'm old enough to remember people complaining about "The Empire Strikes Back" when it first came out. The complaining about "Return of the Jedi" has never ended (you would think Ewoks killed the franchise). The hate heaped upon the prequel trilogy is almost insane. And the complaints for the new sequel movies are more of the same. The complaints run the total gambit;
Too Cheesy (again when was it not cheesy?)
Too many changes.
Not enough changes.
Too much for kids (again it was always for kids)
Some one died.
No one died.
The plot is not what I would have written (LOL).
There are annoying characters (as if Jar Jar is any more annoying than C3PO)
A character acted different than he did 40 years ago (what a shock).
And it goes on and on.
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Post by politicidal on Dec 18, 2017 17:10:55 GMT
Google 'star wars fandom toxic' and you get over 750,000 results.
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Post by Jedan Archer on Dec 18, 2017 17:12:51 GMT
Yeah the hate for this film is palpa(tin)ble (no pun intended). Just check RT (lowest SW score ever), metacritic or Imdb reviews.
I think TLJ only reaps what TFA sow (*cough* mystery boxes). I think it's actually an creative improvement over TFA, I would recommend it (TFA: 4/10, R1: 7.5/10, TLJ 6.5/10). |
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Dec 18, 2017 17:28:05 GMT
Yeah the hate for this film is palpa(tin)ble (no pun intended). Just check RT (lowest SW score ever), metacritic or Imdb reviews.
I think TLJ only reaps what TFA sow (*cough* mystery boxes). I think it's actually an creative improvement over TFA, I would recommend it (TFA: 4/10, R1: 7.5/10, TLJ 6.5/10). I totally agree about everything you said and your scores. I might've rated TLJ much lower (like obviously many scorned fans are doing), because of the "reaping the mystery box" burn. But let's be honest, we've known each other since back on the original IMDb. We both saw some of this coming from a mile away when other posters were in denial. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Dec 18, 2017 17:31:07 GMT
What the hell is going on? It's like there's a civil war going on, a especially in the Star Wars subreddit. People who liked or loved the new film are being bombarded with crazy hate and the people who dislike or hate the new film are either being with hate themselves or even being called Trump supporters. I don't understand how a Star Wars fan could like TLJ, but I'm not going to attack them for it. Good for them, though I guess the downside is the studio will just make more of this garbage if the people keep eating it up. I loved the OT, hated the prequels; I thought TFA was a rehash but a necessary evil to move us away from the prequels. Rogue One is probably my favorite SW movie overall, and I'm glad it was a one off. TLJ is awful, straight up. It's like a live action version of a cartoon spoof of a Star Wars movie. But that's my opinion on the movie. I have no opinion on those who liked it, I just don't agree with them. |
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Post by Jedan Archer on Dec 18, 2017 17:41:13 GMT
Yeah the hate for this film is palpa(tin)ble (no pun intended). Just check RT (lowest SW score ever), metacritic or Imdb reviews.
I think TLJ only reaps what TFA sow (*cough* mystery boxes). I think it's actually an creative improvement over TFA, I would recommend it (TFA: 4/10, R1: 7.5/10, TLJ 6.5/10). I totally agree about everything you said and your scores. I might've rated TLJ much lower (like obviously many scorned fans are doing), because of the "reaping the mystery box" burn. But let's be honest, we've known each other since back on the original IMDb. We both saw some of this coming from a mile away when other posters were in denial. Yup we did, and if you went through JJ's Lost experience you did not need any brains ore foresight to realize that the box is filled with fluff and one dangling, rotten carrot at best (if one is available at the time of opening).
But I cannot blame Johnson for this, I feel sorry for him, he reaps a lose-lose sithstorm.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2017 17:43:46 GMT
Yeah the hate for this film is palpa(tin)ble (no pun intended). Just check RT (lowest SW score ever), metacritic or Imdb reviews.
I think TLJ only reaps what TFA sow (*cough* mystery boxes). I think it's actually an creative improvement over TFA, I would recommend it (TFA: 4/10, R1: 7.5/10, TLJ 6.5/10). I totally agree about everything you said and your scores. I might've rated TLJ much lower (like obviously many scorned fans are doing), because of the "reaping the mystery box" burn. But let's be honest, we've known each other since back on the original IMDb. We both saw some of this coming from a mile away when other posters were in denial. I'll be the first to admit that I hoped that there would be more boxes filled. Looks like Johnson was more into continuing the story over satisfying the mysteries. I'm disappointed he didn't do much there. Now it's back on JJ to satisfy his boxes or ignore them. I hope he will. I really liked Johnson's story and his take on the Force though. |
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Dec 18, 2017 18:41:55 GMT
I totally agree about everything you said and your scores. I might've rated TLJ much lower (like obviously many scorned fans are doing), because of the "reaping the mystery box" burn. But let's be honest, we've known each other since back on the original IMDb. We both saw some of this coming from a mile away when other posters were in denial. I'll be the first to admit that I hoped that there would be more boxes filled. Looks like Johnson was more into continuing the story over satisfying the mysteries. I'm disappointed he didn't do much there. Now it's back on JJ to satisfy his boxes or ignore them. I hope he will. I really liked Johnson's story and his take on the Force though. It was nice to see that Johnson wasn't screaming "THIS IS THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK AGAIN!!" every 5 minutes in the movie. And he definitely brought more originality in the world building. No question about it! Somewhere in between OT level and PT level IMO. Points to him for that. I was okay with how he handled Leia (we'll just pretend Mary Poppins Force Leia never happened, difficult as that may be). Even taking the MarySue edge off of Rey was a plus. I have mixed feelings about the totally new characters like Rose and DJ. Holdo was totally unnecessary and could've been slotted by Ackbar already there. And Maz's cameo was total waste of film time. Any character already on board Leia's ship could've covered her contribution to the plot. But Rian Johnson just did Abrams dirty work IMO. He didn't satisfy any of the mysteries because there was never any design to ever satisfy the mysteries on the part of Abrams when he created them. They were all Abrams mystery boxes to begin with. And if you know how Abrams mystery boxes work...
The concept of his "mystery box" plots and character storylines is (metaphorically speaking) - the box gives off mysterious colors and sounds, causing you to wonder what's inside. With each new sound your curiosity builds. But when you finally open the box, there's nothing inside. But by then you're almost to the end of the story. So the storyteller evades the consequences of his disappointed audience.
So what Rian Johnson did in TLJ was to open some of the boxes to reveal nothing inside. None of this surprised me. The only thing that did surprise me was Johnson opened so many of the boxes! I was anticipating that he would open about half of them and then leave the rest for Abrams to deal with in episode 9. But Rian Johnson's already opened most of the mystery boxes! It would seem that this was all part of the plan to take most of the heat off of good ol' Jar Jar Abrams - since he already has some of a reputation for it. And Johnson was rewarded with his own trilogy before TLJ was ever released. He gets rewarded before Disney even knows the results for his first entry. Of course I'd love to see Abrams do episode 9, and play a "good cop/bad cop" role. See him satisfactorily answer the rest of the mystery boxes. And maybe even retconn answer a few that have already been opened. But looking at his history... looking at how he passed the buck to Rian Johnson to open most of his empty mystery boxes... looking at how he passed the buck to Rian Johnson to terminate Luke Skywalker's character in the saga (Abrams went through numerous rewrites trying to do and continually scale back Luke more and more in TFA. He finally stuck Luke in a silent cameo at the end and let Johnson deal with it in the next movie). When taking into account all of those things, I have zero reason to hope that Abrams will satisfy any of the mysteries in episode 9. That's the problem I've always had with Abrams! He's always gives us false hope - never genuine hope! And rebellions are built on hope! (pun intended) |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2017 18:54:50 GMT
I'll be the first to admit that I hoped that there would be more boxes filled. Looks like Johnson was more into continuing the story over satisfying the mysteries. I'm disappointed he didn't do much there. Now it's back on JJ to satisfy his boxes or ignore them. I hope he will. I really liked Johnson's story and his take on the Force though. It was nice to see that Johnson wasn't screaming "THIS IS THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK AGAIN!!" every 5 minutes in the movie. And he definitely brought more originality in the world building. No question about it! Somewhere in between OT level and PT level IMO. Points to him for that. I was okay with how he handled Leia (we'll just pretend Mary Poppins Force Leia never happened, difficult as that may be). Even taking the MarySue edge off of Rey was a plus. I have mixed feelings about the totally new characters like Rose and DJ. Holdo was totally unnecessary and could've been slotted by Ackbar already there. And Maz's cameo was total waste of film time. Any character already on board Leia's ship could've covered her contribution to the plot. But Rian Johnson just did Abrams dirty work IMO. He didn't satisfy any of the mysteries because there was never any design to ever satisfy the mysteries on the part of Abrams when he created them. They were all Abrams mystery boxes to begin with. And if you know how Abrams mystery boxes work...
The concept of his "mystery box" plots and character storylines is (metaphorically speaking) - the box gives off mysterious colors and sounds, causing you to wonder what's inside. With each new sound your curiosity builds. But when you finally open the box, there's nothing inside. But by then you're almost to the end of the story. So the storyteller evades the consequences of his disappointed audience.
So what Rian Johnson did in TLJ was to open some of the boxes to reveal nothing inside. None of this surprised me. The only thing that did surprise me was Johnson opened so many of the boxes! I was anticipating that he would open about half of them and then leave the rest for Abrams to deal with in episode 9. But Rian Johnson's already opened most of the mystery boxes! It would seem that this was all part of the plan to take most of the heat off of good ol' Jar Jar Abrams - since he already has some of a reputation for it. And Johnson was rewarded with his own trilogy before TLJ was ever released. He gets rewarded before Disney even knows the results for his first entry. Of course I'd love to see Abrams do episode 9, and play a "good cop/bad cop" role. See him satisfactorily answer the rest of the mystery boxes. And maybe even retconn answer a few that have already been opened. But looking at his history... looking at how he passed the buck to Rian Johnson to open most of his empty mystery boxes... looking at how he passed the buck to Rian Johnson to terminate Luke Skywalker's character in the saga (Abrams went through numerous rewrites trying to do and continually scale back Luke more and more in TFA. He finally stuck Luke in a silent cameo at the end and let Johnson deal with it in the next movie). When taking into account all of those things, I have zero reason to hope that Abrams will satisfy any of the mysteries in episode 9. That's the problem I've always had with Abrams! He's always given false hope - never genuine hope! And rebellions are built on hope! (pun intended) I understand why mystery boxes aren't cleaned up in a TV series, adding seasons or canceling them make it difficult to know the right time, and they may stunt the continuum to answer them vs forget them. There should be no issue like that in a trilogy. Regardless, it would be a treat to provide more backstory still, filling in some of the mysteries, maybe tell us who the f snoke was and how did he push Kylo to the darkness. I dont want there to be the need to have some separate movie or book to find that out. I am still very happy with the story that was told moving forward though. There are issues with it indeed as well, but I enjoyed it. |
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Dec 18, 2017 19:55:46 GMT
I understand why mystery boxes aren't cleaned up in a TV series, adding seasons or canceling them make it difficult to know the right time, and they may stunt the continuum to answer them vs forget them. There should be no issue like that in a trilogy. Regardless, it would be a treat to provide more backstory still, filling in some of the mysteries, maybe tell us who the f snoke was and how did he push Kylo to the darkness. I dont want there to be the need to have some separate movie or book to find that out. I am still very happy with the story that was told moving forward though. There are issues with it indeed as well, but I enjoyed it. You'll get that answer when "Kylo: A Star Wars Story" comes out 20+ years from now. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2017 20:03:54 GMT
I understand why mystery boxes aren't cleaned up in a TV series, adding seasons or canceling them make it difficult to know the right time, and they may stunt the continuum to answer them vs forget them. There should be no issue like that in a trilogy. Regardless, it would be a treat to provide more backstory still, filling in some of the mysteries, maybe tell us who the f snoke was and how did he push Kylo to the darkness. I dont want there to be the need to have some separate movie or book to find that out. I am still very happy with the story that was told moving forward though. There are issues with it indeed as well, but I enjoyed it. You'll get that answer when "Kylo: A Star Wars Story" comes out 20+ years from now. That's what I'm worried about. |
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Post by ryboto on Dec 18, 2017 20:14:59 GMT
Star Wars is strange in that the "fans" have complained about every movie in the franchise after the first one. The first one by the way was no masterpiece. It was cheesy (laugh it up fuzzball), the acting was weak and the plot was just tropes from King Arthur, Flash Gordon, and Buck Rogers. But that one doesn't get complained about much. Every other one got tons of complaints. I'm old enough to remember people complaining about "The Empire Strikes Back" when it first came out. The complaining about "Return of the Jedi" has never ended (you would think Ewoks killed the franchise). The hate heaped upon the prequel trilogy is almost insane. And the complaints for the new sequel movies are more of the same. The complaints run the total gambit; Too Cheesy (again when was it not cheesy?) Too many changes. Not enough changes. Too much for kids (again it was always for kids) Some one died. No one died. The plot is not what I would have written (LOL). There are annoying characters (as if Jar Jar is any more annoying than C3PO) A character acted different than he did 40 years ago (what a shock). And it goes on and on. Why can't it just be that it's a shallow, pandering, irreverent mess with boring, suck ass characters? |
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Dec 18, 2017 20:36:04 GMT
Star Wars is strange in that the "fans" have complained about every movie in the franchise after the first one. The first one by the way was no masterpiece. It was cheesy (laugh it up fuzzball), the acting was weak and the plot was just tropes from King Arthur, Flash Gordon, and Buck Rogers. But that one doesn't get complained about much. Every other one got tons of complaints. I'm old enough to remember people complaining about "The Empire Strikes Back" when it first came out. The complaining about "Return of the Jedi" has never ended (you would think Ewoks killed the franchise). The hate heaped upon the prequel trilogy is almost insane. And the complaints for the new sequel movies are more of the same. The complaints run the total gambit; Too Cheesy (again when was it not cheesy?) Too many changes. Not enough changes. Too much for kids (again it was always for kids) Some one died. No one died. The plot is not what I would have written (LOL). There are annoying characters (as if Jar Jar is any more annoying than C3PO) A character acted different than he did 40 years ago (what a shock). And it goes on and on. Why can't it just be that it's a shallow, pandering, irreverent mess with boring, suck ass characters? It can be, if that's your opinion. But people have had that same opinion about virtually everyone of the movies and still say they are fans of the franchise. |
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Post by ryboto on Dec 18, 2017 20:42:03 GMT
Why can't it just be that it's a shallow, pandering, irreverent mess with boring, suck ass characters? It can be, if that's your opinion. But people have had that same opinion about virtually everyone of the movies and still say they are fans of the franchise. It feels like this one is getting more outrage...maybe people are waking up and recognizing it's just a brand now and getting pissed off? The Prequels were different, sure, people were mad at them, yes. Still, did they do to the OT what the ST is doing to the character arcs(undermine them)? Or did it merely tell a story of what was before? |
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Dec 18, 2017 20:48:27 GMT
It can be, if that's your opinion. But people have had that same opinion about virtually everyone of the movies and still say they are fans of the franchise. It feels like this one is getting more outrage...maybe people are waking up and recognizing it's just a brand now and getting pissed off? The Prequels were different, sure, people were mad at them, yes. Still, did they do to the OT what the ST is doing to the character arcs(undermine them)? Or did it merely tell a story of what was before? It's because it takes a giant shit on everything that happened before it. |
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Post by tavaresmd on Dec 18, 2017 21:40:58 GMT
Some might say that the PT somewhat fucked up Darth Vader's character arc.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Dec 18, 2017 21:54:11 GMT
What the hell is going on? It's like there's a civil war going on, a especially in the Star Wars subreddit. People who liked or loved the new film are being bombarded with crazy hate and the people who dislike or hate the new film are either being with hate themselves or even being called Trump supporters. That's going too far. My criticisms are of the movie not the fanbase. And I even enjoyed the movie. Just a few issues. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2017 22:00:23 GMT
What the hell is going on? It's like there's a civil war going on, a especially in the Star Wars subreddit. People who liked or loved the new film are being bombarded with crazy hate and the people who dislike or hate the new film are either being with hate themselves or even being called Trump supporters. That's going too far. My criticisms are of the movie not the fanbase. And I even enjoyed the movie. Just a few issues. I think your clean on that one Lion-O. |
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Dec 18, 2017 23:35:36 GMT
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