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Post by lenlenlen1 on Dec 18, 2017 17:59:56 GMT
spoilers spoilers spoilers
I didn't hate this movie, it was fun and it at least had the guts to take some twists and turns here and there that we didn't expect.
BUT it also didn't deliver. Instead of going one way, it constantly kept going the other way, and didn't throw us any bones whatsoever. It should have given us a few things to fan freak about, and instead it didn't.
Biggest problems: No answers. WTF?
Who are Reys parents? Nobody. And worse our opinions about them don't matter either because we wont find out anything more about them than that they are "nobody". We don't care who Finn and Poe's parents are because their history wasn't made a big issue in TFA. Rey's parentage was. So they should have given us something.
Who is snoke? Some guy. And we'll never find out anything more about him since he's dead, so what'd be the point?
Who is Phasma? Some woman. And we'll never find out anything more about her since she's dead, so what'd be the point?
Who are the Knights of Ren? Not important. Forget about them. Maybe we'll see them in Ep 9
What had Luke been doing all this time? Nothing. I guess he found some books but they turned out to be of no consequence. None. So much so even Yoda said "fuck 'em"!
Will Luke be redeemed for doing nothing? If you consider what happened in this movie redemption I guess.
How will Luke react when he finds out about Hans death? He asked, but they decided a scene change was more important. And then the moment passes.
How will they deal with Carrie Fishers absence? We don't know. Carrie's dead, but Leias alive! Mark is alive, but Luke is dead. WHAT. THE. F%#$. She's been dead for a year! They had time! They couldn't have gone back in an edited one scene to include Leia passing away? And in light of that keep Luke alive, so at least we have one OT character still with us for one more movie?
What did Luke die from? Extertion!? Luke died from using the force too hard? What, using the force kills a Jedi master now? I'll give you that projecting an illusion light years away must be hard, but surely not so hard that you have to die from it! if he was going to die anyway why not just have him come to Krait in person and go out fighting for real?! That whole scene, which was awesome, turned into B.S. the minute you realize he's not really there. AND THEN HE DIES! wtf.
Some other issues:
Rey gets NO training? And she teaches herself to sword fight? Without even a book from the library? What?!
Benicio Del Toros character? WTF? He just happened to be able to escape? He just happened to have a ship? He just happened to be able to do what they needed done? And what was with the stuttering? Was that supposed to be funny? Was his character supposed to be cool, shifty, annoying, comic relief? I didn't get him at all. Please lets not ever see him again. Ever.
Laura Derns character? She was okay, but superfluous. Why give her a big send out when they could have given it to Leia? They should have cut that character out and given her lines and actions to Leia so she would have had more to do and had a big heroic send off. That would have been great! Instead they pass that particular buck off to the next movie, which will have a hard time resolving it since Fisher IS DEAD!
Fisher is dead, but Leia is alive. Hamill is alive, but Luke is dead. WTF!!!
And now the Resistance is just twenty people? The whole Resistance fits in the Millennium Falcon? If that's the case then its game over man!
p.s. By the way, why do C3PO and R2D2 even need to exist anymore?
just wtf.
Someone help me... lol
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Post by mcufan on Dec 18, 2017 18:09:52 GMT
spoilers spoilers spoilers
I didn't hate this movie, it at least had the guts to take some twists and turns we didn't expect in some cases. BUT it also didn't deliver. Instead of going one way, it constantly kept going the other way, and didn't throw us any bones whatsoever. It should have given us a few things to fan freak about, and instead it didn't.
Biggest problems: No answers. WTF?
Who are Reys parents? Nobody. And worse our opinions about them don't matter either because we wont find out anything more about them than that they are "nobody". We don't care about Finn and Poe's parents are because their history wasn't made a big issue in TFA. Rey's parentage was.
Who is snoke? Some guy. And we'll never find out anything more about him since he's dead, so what'd be the point?
Who is Phasma? Some woman. And we'll never find out anything more about her since she's dead, so what'd be the point?
Who are the Knights of Ren? Not important. Forget about them. Maybe we'll see them in Ep 9
What had Luke been doing all this time? Nothing. I guess he found some books but they turned out to be of no consequence. None. So much so even Yoda said "fuck 'em"!
Will Luke be redeemed for doing nothing? If you consider what happened in this movie redemption I guess.
How will Luke react when he finds out about Hans death? He asked, but they decided a scene change was more important. And then the moment passes.
How will they deal with Carrie Fishers absence? We don't know. Carrie's dead, but Leias alive! Mark is alive, but Luke is dead. WHAT. THE. F%#$. She's been dead for a year! They couldn't have gone back in an edited one scene to include Leia passing away? And in light of that keep Luke alive, so at least we have one OT character still with us for one more movie?
What did Luke die from? Extertion? Luke died from using the force too hard? What, using the force kills a Jedi master now? I'll give you that projecting an illusion light years away must be hard, but surely not so hard that you have to die from it! if he was going to die anyway why not just have him come to Krait in person and go out fighting for real?! That whole scene, which was awesome, turned into B.S. the minute you realize he's not really there. AND THEN HE DIES! wtf.
just wtf.
Someone help me... lol
Look i know you might have been spoiled by the PT explaining everything, But there was a time when: (this is from another thread) About the OT: How did the emperor become the emperor? How does a jedi manifest in ghost form? Was Vader telling the truth about luke being his son? Why half of empire was an wild goose chase after the millenium falcon? cut that out they would have ended in the same spot. Who are the Sith, why is vader called the dark lord of the sith? Are there more Sith? Who is Luke and Leia mother? Who can a jedi levitate rocks and pull lightsabers out of the snow? Yoda and Ben vanishing why? Who is bobba fett? and on and on and on Some were answered but some were left to the imagination (or the next installment, wich you can do, this is not over yet, you want answers in the second act) And then came the PT, but only then! Unresolved mysteries? Star Wars always had them, and that's what was great about it. Nowadays everything has to be explained. Fuck that. That's why this movie is the best. Imagination, use it.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Dec 18, 2017 18:48:40 GMT
How did the emperor become the emperor? How does a jedi manifest in ghost form? Was Vader telling the truth about luke being his son? Why half of empire was an wild goose chase after the millenium falcon? cut that out they would have ended in the same spot. Who are the Sith, why is vader called the dark lord of the sith? Are there more Sith? Who is Luke and Leia mother? Who can a jedi levitate rocks and pull lightsabers out of the snow? Yoda and Ben vanishing why? Who is bobba fett? Imagination, use it. I get your point. And its valid. But imagination isn't the problem. Some of this could have been left open or unresolved, that's fine. But some of it was crucial to the progress of the characters. Ultimately Rey, Finn and Poe (our new main characters) are no further along than they were at the end of TFA. Nor is Luke, nor is Leia, and their characters don't even have the chance to progress!
If you set up that a characters parents are of significance to that character (which they did do in TFA), then that characters parents should be SOMEONE. They could have just mentioned that maybe they were Luke's students from the Jedi temple that got destroyed by Kylo. That's one idea.
How did the emperor become the emperor? That didn't matter as much because knowing who Snoke is was part of filling in the thirty year gap between ROTJ and TFA.
How does a jedi manifest in ghost form? Who cares?
Was Vader telling the truth about luke being his son? We knew we were going to find out.
Why half of empire was an wild goose chase after the millenium falcon? cut that out they would have ended in the same spot. But at least we got introduced to cool characters like Lando and Boba and got to see Bespin, and gave Han and Leia cool stuff to do. At least they did something significant with that. What did Finn and Rose do? Run on horses. So? Its not like they freed those people and added to the Resistance numbers.
Who are the Sith, why is vader called the dark lord of the sith? Are there more Sith? Not knowing that didn't change Vaders character or the story. To me not knowing about Snoke DOES change the story, for the lesser because his story is part of the thirty year gap.
Who is Luke and Leia mother? They didn't make that as a significant an issue as they did with Rey's parentage. The answer of knowing who Luke and Leia were didn't hinge on knowing who their parents were. Whereas knowing who Reys parents were was dangled as a potential clue to who she is.
Who can a jedi levitate rocks and pull lightsabers out of the snow? That was a question?
Yoda and Ben vanishing why? Never had a problem with that. They were dead. Period.
Who is boba fett? In some instances it is better not to know. And this was one of them.
Imagination is not the problem. I'm the one who often says "use your imagination" to other posters here. My issue here is that this movie should have delivered at least SOME of this to us, but gave us NONE of it. We could have skipped over this movie and the characters would have been in the same place they were in at the end of TFA. You cant say that about ESB. Or even AOTC even.
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Post by mcufan on Dec 18, 2017 19:01:12 GMT
How did the emperor become the emperor? How does a jedi manifest in ghost form? Was Vader telling the truth about luke being his son? Why half of empire was an wild goose chase after the millenium falcon? cut that out they would have ended in the same spot. Who are the Sith, why is vader called the dark lord of the sith? Are there more Sith? Who is Luke and Leia mother? Who can a jedi levitate rocks and pull lightsabers out of the snow? Yoda and Ben vanishing why? Who is bobba fett? Imagination, use it. I get your point. And its valid. But imagination isn't the problem. Some of this could have been left open or unresolved, that's fine. But some of it was crucial to the progress of the characters. Ultimately Rey, Finn and Poe (our new main characters) are no further along than they were at the end of TFA. Nor is Luke, nor is Leia, and their characters don't even have the chance to progress!
If you set up that a characters parents are of significance to that character (which they did do in TFA), then that characters parents should be SOMEONE. They could have just mentioned that maybe they were Luke's students from the Jedi temple that got destroyed by Kylo. That's one idea.
How did the emperor become the emperor? That didn't matter as much because knowing who Snoke is was part of filling in the thirty year gap between ROTJ and TFA.
How does a jedi manifest in ghost form? Who cares?
Was Vader telling the truth about luke being his son? We knew we were going to find out.
Why half of empire was an wild goose chase after the millenium falcon? cut that out they would have ended in the same spot. But at least we got introduced to cool characters like Lando and Boba and got to see Bespin, and gave Han and Leia cool stuff to do. At least they did something significant with that. What did Finn and Rose do? Run on horses. So? Its not like they freed those people and added to the Resistance numbers.
Who are the Sith, why is vader called the dark lord of the sith? Are there more Sith? Not knowing that didn't change Vaders character or the story. To me not knowing about Snoke DOES change the story, for the lesser because his story is part of the thirty year gap.
Who is Luke and Leia mother? They didn't make that as a significant an issue as they did with Rey's parentage. The answer of knowing who Luke and Leia were didn't hinge on knowing who their parents were. Whereas knowing who Reys parents were was dangled as a potential clue to who she is.
Who can a jedi levitate rocks and pull lightsabers out of the snow? That was a question?
Yoda and Ben vanishing why? Never had a problem with that. They were dead. Period.
Who is boba fett? In some instances it is better not to know. And this was one of them.
Imagination is not the problem. I'm the one who often says "use your imagination" to other posters here. My issue here is that this movie should have delivered at least SOME of this to us, but gave us NONE of it. We could have skipped over this movie and the characters would have been in the same place they were in at the end of TFA. You cant say that about ESB. Or even AOTC even.
Poe grew, Rey Grew, Kylo grew, Snoke Grew (shorter HAHAHAHAHA)
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Post by mcufan on Dec 18, 2017 19:15:11 GMT
How did the emperor become the emperor? How does a jedi manifest in ghost form? Was Vader telling the truth about luke being his son? Why half of empire was an wild goose chase after the millenium falcon? cut that out they would have ended in the same spot. Who are the Sith, why is vader called the dark lord of the sith? Are there more Sith? Who is Luke and Leia mother? Who can a jedi levitate rocks and pull lightsabers out of the snow? Yoda and Ben vanishing why? Who is bobba fett? Imagination, use it. I get your point. And its valid. But imagination isn't the problem. Some of this could have been left open or unresolved, that's fine. But some of it was crucial to the progress of the characters. Ultimately Rey, Finn and Poe (our new main characters) are no further along than they were at the end of TFA. Nor is Luke, nor is Leia, and their characters don't even have the chance to progress!
If you set up that a characters parents are of significance to that character (which they did do in TFA), then that characters parents should be SOMEONE. They could have just mentioned that maybe they were Luke's students from the Jedi temple that got destroyed by Kylo. That's one idea.
How did the emperor become the emperor? That didn't matter as much because knowing who Snoke is was part of filling in the thirty year gap between ROTJ and TFA.
How does a jedi manifest in ghost form? Who cares?
Was Vader telling the truth about luke being his son? We knew we were going to find out.
Why half of empire was an wild goose chase after the millenium falcon? cut that out they would have ended in the same spot. But at least we got introduced to cool characters like Lando and Boba and got to see Bespin, and gave Han and Leia cool stuff to do. At least they did something significant with that. What did Finn and Rose do? Run on horses. So? Its not like they freed those people and added to the Resistance numbers.
Who are the Sith, why is vader called the dark lord of the sith? Are there more Sith? Not knowing that didn't change Vaders character or the story. To me not knowing about Snoke DOES change the story, for the lesser because his story is part of the thirty year gap.
Who is Luke and Leia mother? They didn't make that as a significant an issue as they did with Rey's parentage. The answer of knowing who Luke and Leia were didn't hinge on knowing who their parents were. Whereas knowing who Reys parents were was dangled as a potential clue to who she is.
Who can a jedi levitate rocks and pull lightsabers out of the snow? That was a question?
Yoda and Ben vanishing why? Never had a problem with that. They were dead. Period.
Who is boba fett? In some instances it is better not to know. And this was one of them.
Imagination is not the problem. I'm the one who often says "use your imagination" to other posters here. My issue here is that this movie should have delivered at least SOME of this to us, but gave us NONE of it. We could have skipped over this movie and the characters would have been in the same place they were in at the end of TFA. You cant say that about ESB. Or even AOTC even.
Look you may think rey's parentage is super important. I don't (even though i think Kylo is Lying). Rey grew in characer as she had this gran vision of what the jedi were and is now down to earth. Poe leraned that he is not always right, Finn learned that you don't have to run or destroy just beleive. Chewbacca learned how to fly the falcon alone (a part i didn't buy about the movie). Luke regained hope and died a hero. Leia had her resolve renewed. Kylo is now supreme leader and in love with Rey, but loves power more. What are you talking about, everybody changed by the end of this movie. Snoke is dead.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2017 19:29:13 GMT
spoilers spoilers spoilers
I didn't hate this movie, it was fun and it at least had the guts to take some twists and turns here and there that we didn't expect.
BUT it also didn't deliver. Instead of going one way, it constantly kept going the other way, and didn't throw us any bones whatsoever. It should have given us a few things to fan freak about, and instead it didn't.
Biggest problems: No answers. WTF?
Excellent post. And for the Disney Wars fans out there, it's not about the movie explaining things clearly enough or not clearly enough to be perfectly understood or about us not having an imagination. TLJ's answers were pretty specific. They were either really shitty answers or no answer at all. There wasn't an ounce of ambiguity in them, though, so not sure how us not liking these very specific answers means we don't have an imagination. You don't need an imagination to discern that these answers were total shit.
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Post by mcufan on Dec 18, 2017 19:48:53 GMT
spoilers spoilers spoilers
I didn't hate this movie, it was fun and it at least had the guts to take some twists and turns here and there that we didn't expect.
BUT it also didn't deliver. Instead of going one way, it constantly kept going the other way, and didn't throw us any bones whatsoever. It should have given us a few things to fan freak about, and instead it didn't.
Biggest problems: No answers. WTF?
Excellent post. And for the Disney Wars fans out there, it's not about the movie explaining things clearly enough or not clearly enough to be perfectly understood or about us not having an imagination. TLJ's answers were pretty specific. They were either really shitty answers or no answer at all. There wasn't an ounce of ambiguity in them, though, so not sure how us not liking these very specific answers means we don't have an imagination. You don't need an imagination to discern that these answers were total shit. What answers? I only see people complaint about rey's parents or luke's saber or snokes backstory. Are those the answers? The only answer we got was luke leaving because he almost killed his nephew and couldn't handle the preassure of being a jedi, when he himself didn't yet know what being a jedi means. He caught up in the end though.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2017 19:59:42 GMT
Excellent post. And for the Disney Wars fans out there, it's not about the movie explaining things clearly enough or not clearly enough to be perfectly understood or about us not having an imagination. TLJ's answers were pretty specific. They were either really shitty answers or no answer at all. There wasn't an ounce of ambiguity in them, though, so not sure how us not liking these very specific answers means we don't have an imagination. You don't need an imagination to discern that these answers were total shit. What answers? I only see people complaint about rey's parents or luke's saber or snokes backstory. Are those the answers? The only answer we got was luke leaving because he almost killed his nephew and couldn't handle the preassure of being a jedi, when he himself didn't yet know what being a jedi means. He caught up in the end though. First of all, you just named three things, so what do you mean "what answers?" Second, they are too numerous to type out. If you truly want a perfect example of TFA's questions that TLJ either answered poorly or completely ignored, check out the video linked in a thread that HauntedKnight posted. It took those guys an hour to discuss it and they didn't have to type.
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Post by mcufan on Dec 18, 2017 20:01:48 GMT
What answers? I only see people complaint about rey's parents or luke's saber or snokes backstory. Are those the answers? The only answer we got was luke leaving because he almost killed his nephew and couldn't handle the preassure of being a jedi, when he himself didn't yet know what being a jedi means. He caught up in the end though. First of all, you just named three things, so what do you mean "what answers?" Second, they are too numerous to type out. If you truly want a perfect example of TFA's questions that TLJ either answered poorly or completely ignored, check out the video linked in a thread that HauntedKnight posted. It took those guys an hour to discuss it and they didn't have to type. I'll be back tomorrow. I'll answer than ok?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2017 20:09:58 GMT
First of all, you just named three things, so what do you mean "what answers?" Second, they are too numerous to type out. If you truly want a perfect example of TFA's questions that TLJ either answered poorly or completely ignored, check out the video linked in a thread that HauntedKnight posted. It took those guys an hour to discuss it and they didn't have to type. I'll be back tomorrow. I'll answer than ok? Sure. Watch the video, though. Their frenzied reaction to Snoke's death matches my own perfectly. Also, I just read a review on imdb that was titled something along the lines of "never before has a movie made me physically angry." I have to admit, the same thing has happened to me and I've never had a similar reaction to a film. This film makes me violently angry. I get that that's a really retarded thing to have happen and is totally melodramatic, but I'll admit that it's true. I've never been even remotely this incensed by a movie (or any fiction for that matter) as I was with this film. I truly feel like die-hard fans were intentionally fucked with and that the fuckboys responsible are gratified by what they've "accomplished."
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Dec 18, 2017 20:15:39 GMT
I get your point. And its valid. But imagination isn't the problem. Some of this could have been left open or unresolved, that's fine. But some of it was crucial to the progress of the characters. Ultimately Rey, Finn and Poe (our new main characters) are no further along than they were at the end of TFA. Nor is Luke, nor is Leia, and their characters don't even have the chance to progress!
If you set up that a characters parents are of significance to that character (which they did do in TFA), then that characters parents should be SOMEONE. They could have just mentioned that maybe they were Luke's students from the Jedi temple that got destroyed by Kylo. That's one idea.
How did the emperor become the emperor? That didn't matter as much because knowing who Snoke is was part of filling in the thirty year gap between ROTJ and TFA.
How does a jedi manifest in ghost form? Who cares?
Was Vader telling the truth about luke being his son? We knew we were going to find out.
Why half of empire was an wild goose chase after the millenium falcon? cut that out they would have ended in the same spot. But at least we got introduced to cool characters like Lando and Boba and got to see Bespin, and gave Han and Leia cool stuff to do. At least they did something significant with that. What did Finn and Rose do? Run on horses. So? Its not like they freed those people and added to the Resistance numbers.
Who are the Sith, why is vader called the dark lord of the sith? Are there more Sith? Not knowing that didn't change Vaders character or the story. To me not knowing about Snoke DOES change the story, for the lesser because his story is part of the thirty year gap.
Who is Luke and Leia mother? They didn't make that as a significant an issue as they did with Rey's parentage. The answer of knowing who Luke and Leia were didn't hinge on knowing who their parents were. Whereas knowing who Reys parents were was dangled as a potential clue to who she is.
Who can a jedi levitate rocks and pull lightsabers out of the snow? That was a question?
Yoda and Ben vanishing why? Never had a problem with that. They were dead. Period.
Who is boba fett? In some instances it is better not to know. And this was one of them.
Imagination is not the problem. I'm the one who often says "use your imagination" to other posters here. My issue here is that this movie should have delivered at least SOME of this to us, but gave us NONE of it. We could have skipped over this movie and the characters would have been in the same place they were in at the end of TFA. You cant say that about ESB. Or even AOTC even.
Poe grew, Rey Grew, Kylo grew, Snoke Grew (shorter HAHAHAHAHA) Your trolling stinks. And so does your comprehension of the points being made judging by your answers.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Dec 18, 2017 20:17:12 GMT
spoilers spoilers spoilers
I didn't hate this movie, it was fun and it at least had the guts to take some twists and turns here and there that we didn't expect.
BUT it also didn't deliver. Instead of going one way, it constantly kept going the other way, and didn't throw us any bones whatsoever. It should have given us a few things to fan freak about, and instead it didn't.
Biggest problems: No answers. WTF?
Who are Reys parents? Nobody. And worse our opinions about them don't matter either because we wont find out anything more about them than that they are "nobody". We don't care about Finn and Poe's parents are because their history wasn't made a big issue in TFA. Rey's parentage was.
Who is snoke? Some guy. And we'll never find out anything more about him since he's dead, so what'd be the point?
Who is Phasma? Some woman. And we'll never find out anything more about her since she's dead, so what'd be the point?
Who are the Knights of Ren? Not important. Forget about them. Maybe we'll see them in Ep 9
What had Luke been doing all this time? Nothing. I guess he found some books but they turned out to be of no consequence. None. So much so even Yoda said "fuck 'em"!
Will Luke be redeemed for doing nothing? If you consider what happened in this movie redemption I guess.
How will Luke react when he finds out about Hans death? He asked, but they decided a scene change was more important. And then the moment passes.
How will they deal with Carrie Fishers absence? We don't know. Carrie's dead, but Leias alive! Mark is alive, but Luke is dead. WHAT. THE. F%#$. She's been dead for a year! They had time! They couldn't have gone back in an edited one scene to include Leia passing away? And in light of that keep Luke alive, so at least we have one OT character still with us for one more movie?
What did Luke die from? Extertion!? Luke died from using the force too hard? What, using the force kills a Jedi master now? I'll give you that projecting an illusion light years away must be hard, but surely not so hard that you have to die from it! if he was going to die anyway why not just have him come to Krait in person and go out fighting for real?! That whole scene, which was awesome, turned into B.S. the minute you realize he's not really there. AND THEN HE DIES! wtf.
Some other issues:
Rey gets NO training? And she teaches herself to sword fight? Without even a book from the library? What?!
Benicio Del Toros character? WTF? He just happened to be able to escape? He just happened to have a ship? He just happened to be able to do what they needed done? And what was with the stuttering? Was that supposed to be funny? Was his character supposed to be cool, shifty, annoying, comic relief? I didn't get him at all. Please lets not ever se him again. Ever.
Laura Derns character? She was okay, but superfluous. Why give her a big send out when they could have given it to Leia? They should have cut that character out and given her lines and actions to Leia so she would have had more to do and had a big heroic send off. That would have been great! Instead they pass that particular buck off to the next movie, which will have a hard time resolving it since Fisher IS DEAD!
Fisher is dead, but Leia is alive. Hamill is alive, but Luke is dead. WTF!!!
And now the Resistance is just twenty people? The whole Resistance fits in the Millennium Falcon? If that's the case then its game over man!
p.s. By the way, why do C3PO and R2D2 even need to exist anymore?
just wtf.
Someone help me... lol
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Post by ryboto on Dec 18, 2017 20:17:23 GMT
I'll be back tomorrow. I'll answer than ok? Sure. Watch the video, though. Their frenzied reaction to Snoke's death matches my own perfectly. Also, I just read a review on imdb that was titled something along the lines of "never before has a movie made me physically angry." I have to admit, the same thing has happened to me and I've never had a similar reaction to a film. This film makes me violently angry. I get that that's a really retarded thing to have happen and is totally melodramatic, but I'll admit that it's true. I've never been even remotely this incensed by a movie (or any fiction for that matter) as I was with this film. I truly feel like die-hard fans were intentionally fucked with and that the fuckboys responsible are gratified by what they've "accomplished." I appreciate that you're going through this. Many of us who dislike TFA went through the exact same reaction process when we first saw it. While we may disagree about that entry, we can at least relate a bit now.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2017 20:20:11 GMT
Sure. Watch the video, though. Their frenzied reaction to Snoke's death matches my own perfectly. Also, I just read a review on imdb that was titled something along the lines of "never before has a movie made me physically angry." I have to admit, the same thing has happened to me and I've never had a similar reaction to a film. This film makes me violently angry. I get that that's a really retarded thing to have happen and is totally melodramatic, but I'll admit that it's true. I've never been even remotely this incensed by a movie (or any fiction for that matter) as I was with this film. I truly feel like die-hard fans were intentionally fucked with and that the fuckboys responsible are gratified by what they've "accomplished." I appreciate that you're going through this. Many of us who dislike TFA went through the exact same reaction process when we first saw it. While we may disagree about that entry, we can at least relate a bit now. Yeah, I've been meaning to apologize. You're not a myopic douche. You're an outraged fan (with good reason) and I was just late to the party.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Dec 18, 2017 20:34:14 GMT
I get your point. And its valid. But imagination isn't the problem. Some of this could have been left open or unresolved, that's fine. But some of it was crucial to the progress of the characters. Ultimately Rey, Finn and Poe (our new main characters) are no further along than they were at the end of TFA. Nor is Luke, nor is Leia, and their characters don't even have the chance to progress!
Poe grew, Rey Grew, Kylo grew, Snoke Grew (shorter HAHAHAHAHA) How did Poe grow? How did Rey grow? Kylo grew if you accept him killing Snoke as growth, but other than that... ?
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Dec 18, 2017 20:36:44 GMT
I get your point. And its valid. But imagination isn't the problem. Some of this could have been left open or unresolved, that's fine. But some of it was crucial to the progress of the characters. Ultimately Rey, Finn and Poe (our new main characters) are no further along than they were at the end of TFA. Nor is Luke, nor is Leia, and their characters don't even have the chance to progress!
If you set up that a characters parents are of significance to that character (which they did do in TFA), then that characters parents should be SOMEONE. They could have just mentioned that maybe they were Luke's students from the Jedi temple that got destroyed by Kylo. That's one idea.
How did the emperor become the emperor? That didn't matter as much because knowing who Snoke is was part of filling in the thirty year gap between ROTJ and TFA.
How does a jedi manifest in ghost form? Who cares?
Was Vader telling the truth about luke being his son? We knew we were going to find out.
Why half of empire was an wild goose chase after the millenium falcon? cut that out they would have ended in the same spot. But at least we got introduced to cool characters like Lando and Boba and got to see Bespin, and gave Han and Leia cool stuff to do. At least they did something significant with that. What did Finn and Rose do? Run on horses. So? Its not like they freed those people and added to the Resistance numbers.
Who are the Sith, why is vader called the dark lord of the sith? Are there more Sith? Not knowing that didn't change Vaders character or the story. To me not knowing about Snoke DOES change the story, for the lesser because his story is part of the thirty year gap.
Who is Luke and Leia mother? They didn't make that as a significant an issue as they did with Rey's parentage. The answer of knowing who Luke and Leia were didn't hinge on knowing who their parents were. Whereas knowing who Reys parents were was dangled as a potential clue to who she is.
Who can a jedi levitate rocks and pull lightsabers out of the snow? That was a question?
Yoda and Ben vanishing why? Never had a problem with that. They were dead. Period.
Who is boba fett? In some instances it is better not to know. And this was one of them.
Imagination is not the problem. I'm the one who often says "use your imagination" to other posters here. My issue here is that this movie should have delivered at least SOME of this to us, but gave us NONE of it. We could have skipped over this movie and the characters would have been in the same place they were in at the end of TFA. You cant say that about ESB. Or even AOTC even.
Look you may think rey's parentage is super important. I don't (even though i think Kylo is Lying). Rey grew in characer as she had this gran vision of what the jedi were and is now down to earth. Poe leraned that he is not always right, Finn learned that you don't have to run or destroy just beleive. Chewbacca learned how to fly the falcon alone (a part i didn't buy about the movie). Luke regained hope and died a hero. Leia had her resolve renewed. Kylo is now supreme leader and in love with Rey, but loves power more. What are you talking about, everybody changed by the end of this movie. Snoke is dead. Fair enough. I guess we just disagree on what constitutes character growth.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2017 20:40:00 GMT
Poe grew, Rey Grew, Kylo grew, Snoke Grew (shorter HAHAHAHAHA) How did Poe grow? How did Rey grow? Kylo grew if you accept him killing Snoke as growth, but other than that... ?
Call it like it is. Kylo didn't grow in the least. You can see it all over his face on Crait. He's still the indecisive, fragmented, immature character he was in TFA. The only exception is that they are now going to try to Jedi Mind Trick us into accepting that taking over the FO will - by default - mature him into a real threat. I liked him back when we could all just agree that he was an indecisive, fragmented immature character, tugged on one end by Snoke and and the other end by his family heritage. Rey and Kylo grew...boners for each other if that counts.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Dec 18, 2017 20:55:23 GMT
Seriously though... Fisher is dead, but Leia is alive. Hamill is alive, but Luke is dead. WTF!!! How does that make better sense? This movie had the perfect opportunity to send off the Leia character in a heroic way, and keep Luke around for one more movie. Hamill is still spry enough for one more at least.
So the Skywalker lineage is over? The OT AND the PT were about the Skywalker lineage. Ep 9 is going to be about the daughter of nobody? A janitor? And a guy who flies an X-Wing?
Yeah, Poe is the coolest one!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2017 21:11:47 GMT
Seriously though... Fisher is dead, but Leia is alive. Hamill is alive, but Luke is dead. WTF!!! How does that make better sense? This movie had the perfect opportunity to send off the Leia character in a heroic way, and keep Luke around for one more movie. Hamill is still spry enough for one more at least.
So the Skywalker lineage is over? The OT AND the PT were about the Skywalker lineage. Ep 9 is going to be about the daughter of nobody? A janitor? And a guy who flies an X-Wing?
Yeah, Poe is the coolest one! Apparently they didn't even think he was spry enough to make one decent duel scene. He had a five second (non-saber...ugh!) duel with Rey and then he made Patches O'houlihan proud with his diving and dipping on Crait. Terrible pay-off for the three-decades wait. And you're right: Poe is the coolest one left. How lame.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Dec 18, 2017 21:46:38 GMT
Seriously though... Fisher is dead, but Leia is alive. Hamill is alive, but Luke is dead. WTF!!! How does that make better sense? This movie had the perfect opportunity to send off the Leia character in a heroic way, and keep Luke around for one more movie. Hamill is still spry enough for one more at least.
So the Skywalker lineage is over? The OT AND the PT were about the Skywalker lineage. Ep 9 is going to be about the daughter of nobody? A janitor? And a guy who flies an X-Wing?
Yeah, Poe is the coolest one! Apparently they didn't even think he was spry enough to make one decent duel scene. He had a five second (non-saber...ugh!) duel with Rey and then he made Patches O'houlihan proud with his diving and dipping on Crait. Terrible pay-off for the three-decades wait. And you're right: Poe is the coolest one left. How lame. hey, are you SCELESTUS elsewhere? You're spreading the Last Jedi hate it around aint ya? lol
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