Slendered
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Post by Slendered on Dec 20, 2017 9:39:16 GMT
So far, what do you think is the superior trilogy?
Which one do you think better "represents" and respects Star Wars, its lore and the Original Trilogy?
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Post by miike80 on Dec 20, 2017 11:01:17 GMT
i'd say prequel trilogy. the world-building is insane
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Dec 20, 2017 18:32:22 GMT
Prequel trilogy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 2:08:08 GMT
Is this a serious question??? The Prequels...DUH!!!
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Post by Jedan Archer on Dec 21, 2017 14:13:32 GMT
It's not a fair comparison as the ST is not completed yet. But from an originality and imagination standpoint it's clearly the PT for me.
The ST did not deliver one concept, notion or even new spaceship so far (The U-Wing is not ST) that I would deem iconic or even on the level of the weakest PT film (TPM), say Maul, Palaptine's rise, Pod Racers, Sith, Dual of the Fates etc. Also it's an incoherent mess narratively and rehashes and yet messes up the OT.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 2:19:12 GMT
Well... The ST isn't a trilogy yet.
But there's one luxury that the ST has that hampered the PT all along. The built in plot armor made the most important characters of the PT immortal. Nothing that the maker could do about that the way it went. They could flip and fly and parry and thrust all they wanted, but Yoda and the Emperor was going leave both alive and I knew what Obi-Wan was going to do to Anakin decades before I saw it.
That's the element of the original trilogy, that Space Opera, that the ST gives me that the PT just couldn't. There are qualities of the PT that are absolutely better, the continuity of the story for instance between episodes.
I'll just have to hold my judgement until the story is told.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Dec 25, 2017 13:49:41 GMT
Well... The ST isn't a trilogy yet. But there's one luxury that the ST has that hampered the PT all along. The built in plot armor made the most important characters of the PT immortal. Nothing that the maker could do about that the way it went. They could flip and fly and parry and thrust all they wanted, but Yoda and the Emperor was going leave both alive and I knew what Obi-Wan was going to do to Anakin decades before I saw it. That's the element of the original trilogy, that Space Opera, that the ST gives me that the PT just couldn't. There are qualities of the PT that are absolutely better, the continuity of the story for instance between episodes. I'll just have to hold my judgement until the story is told. But -- these would be almost unquestionable strengths of the ST if they had sat down for like literally five minutes in 2012 and written even the vaguest of plans amid the swastikas and phone numbers on the wall of a bathroom stall in Santa Monica. They're making it up as they go along (by their own admission) and this negates greatly their ability to use this dimension as a strength. You know? I completely agree that it's inherently more interesting to follow protagnists whose ending isn't clear to you from the outset, but if anything these movies have undermined that asset by Doing Whatever with each installment. Innit? ETA: And of course I prefer the prequels; don't consider the Disney films part of the real/"core" canon. They're hit-or-miss fan films with very limited rewatch value for me personally. Even TLJ, which was by far better than Rogue and Awakens, isn't something I could see myself watching on the regular despite loving Hamill's performance and really appreciating a lot of the damage control done by Johnson viz. TFA/JJ.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2017 15:03:40 GMT
Well... The ST isn't a trilogy yet. But there's one luxury that the ST has that hampered the PT all along. The built in plot armor made the most important characters of the PT immortal. Nothing that the maker could do about that the way it went. They could flip and fly and parry and thrust all they wanted, but Yoda and the Emperor was going leave both alive and I knew what Obi-Wan was going to do to Anakin decades before I saw it. That's the element of the original trilogy, that Space Opera, that the ST gives me that the PT just couldn't. There are qualities of the PT that are absolutely better, the continuity of the story for instance between episodes. I'll just have to hold my judgement until the story is told. But -- these would be almost unquestionable strengths of the ST if they had sat down for like literally five minutes in 2012 and written even the vaguest of plans amid the swastikas and phone numbers on the wall of a bathroom stall in Santa Monica. They're making it up as they go along (by their own admission) and this negates greatly their ability to use this dimension as a strength. You know? I completely agree that it's inherently more interesting to follow protagnists whose ending isn't clear to you from the outset, but if anything these movies have undermined that asset by Doing Whatever with each installment. Innit? ETA: And of course I prefer the prequels; don't consider the Disney films part of the real/"core" canon. They're hit-or-miss fan films with very limited rewatch value for me personally. Even TLJ, which was by far better than Rogue and Awakens, isn't something I could see myself watching on the regular despite loving Hamill's performance and really appreciating a lot of the damage control done by Johnson viz. TFA/JJ. And that's why I'm holding the judgement. I still see many of the same possibilities possible to wrap this whole thing up in a nice tidy package that I imagined after seeing TFA. I'm a bit doubtful they will do it, but it's still easily done, and I'm not a million dollar writer. I'm holding that hope that there was a goal in mind for the overall story back in 2012 that allowed for individual writers to have their freedom to make it up as they went along, but still with a destination in mind. We'll see.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Dec 25, 2017 15:27:17 GMT
But -- these would be almost unquestionable strengths of the ST if they had sat down for like literally five minutes in 2012 and written even the vaguest of plans amid the swastikas and phone numbers on the wall of a bathroom stall in Santa Monica. They're making it up as they go along (by their own admission) and this negates greatly their ability to use this dimension as a strength. You know? I completely agree that it's inherently more interesting to follow protagnists whose ending isn't clear to you from the outset, but if anything these movies have undermined that asset by Doing Whatever with each installment. Innit? ETA: And of course I prefer the prequels; don't consider the Disney films part of the real/"core" canon. They're hit-or-miss fan films with very limited rewatch value for me personally. Even TLJ, which was by far better than Rogue and Awakens, isn't something I could see myself watching on the regular despite loving Hamill's performance and really appreciating a lot of the damage control done by Johnson viz. TFA/JJ. And that's why I'm holding the judgement. I still see many of the same possibilities possible to wrap this whole thing up in a nice tidy package that I imagined after seeing TFA. I'm a bit doubtful they will do it, but it's still easily done, and I'm not a million dollar writer. I'm holding that hope that there was a goal in mind for the overall story back in 2012 that allowed for individual writers to have their freedom to make it up as they went along, but still with a destination in mind. We'll see. Yeah, I think Johnson was rather clever in simultaneously subverting TFA entirely while doing so in a way that was mostly "reversible," with the obvious exception of the major deaths. (I still think, for instance, they could retcon Rey Random and possibly give us more Snoke backstory, etc.) More importantly, did you enjoy "swastikas and phone numbers on the wall of a bathroom stall in Santa Monica"?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2017 16:14:09 GMT
More importantly, did you enjoy "swastikas and phone numbers on the wall of a bathroom stall in Santa Monica"? Oh that absolutely provided a visual feast, and even conjured the aroma of urinal cakes and cigarette smoke! It was well played sir!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2017 16:24:05 GMT
I never thought I'ld say it, but the prequel trilogy is the better one. Unless part IX is a true masterpiece, the prequels are better in almost every way.
Yes, they are boring and the whole Anakin/Padmé thing never worked well, the twists and turns were predictable and the whole was not even visually nice to look at. But by god they were better than TLJ. At least they tried to tell a story. Not waste two and a half hours.
TFA tried to offer something new and fresh, but ultimately was too much like a reboot of the series by retelling New Hope. TLJ offered nothing. At all. The fighting wasn't interesting nor believable at all. Yes, it's fantasy, but put a little effort in it.
Anyway, it does not look like part IX is going to be much better, so, the prequels.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2017 16:27:21 GMT
I will answer this question when the Sequel trilogy is done.
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ravi02
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Post by ravi02 on Dec 26, 2017 6:07:24 GMT
I have criticisms with both trilogies, but I ultimately choose the prequels.
Sure, the prequels have their mistakes: Jar-Jar, clunky dialogue, Anakin's fall is clumsily handled and over reliance on CGI, but at least they do their own story arc without remaking scenes and story beats from the originals and killing off beloved characters we grew up with in a lazy manner. They even have some good characters and moments like Liam Neeson as Qui-Gon, Ewan McGregor as Young Obi-Wan (I think he's great in all three), Ian McDiarmid as Palapatine, the final lightsaber duel in Phantom Menace and Palpatine's corrupting of Anakin at the opera in Episode 3.
I liked seeing Harrison Ford, Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher return in the sequel trilogy, but was letdown by a lot of other things. The Force Awakens was just a remake of A New Hope with different characters. 30 years later and the same shit is going on? A whole universe of characters, alien cultures, politics and this was the story they chose? Last Jedi was a little better, but suffered from remaking bits of Empire Strikes Back and some poor script choices.
Daisy Ridley, Adam Driver, John Boyega and Oscar Isaacs are all talented actors and their characters have potential. I just wish the material they were given was more interesting than just remaking the character arcs from the originals.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Dec 26, 2017 7:30:20 GMT
This is a no brainer.
So far, the ST has one film too on track, and one film way too far off track.
Whereas, in the PT, George Lucas literally IS THE TRACK.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Dec 26, 2017 11:27:29 GMT
This is a no brainer. So far, the ST has one film too on track, and one film way too far off track. Whereas, in the PT, George Lucas literally IS THE TRACK. Word, dude!
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Dec 26, 2017 18:13:00 GMT
This is a no brainer. So far, the ST has one film too on track, and one film way too far off track. Whereas, in the PT, George Lucas literally IS THE TRACK. Word, dude!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2017 21:39:00 GMT
Ultimately, I'm just going to be an OT purist.
I enjoy Phantom Menace to a certain extent. And I enjoy Force Awakens to a certain extent. But episodes 2-3, and 8 just don't do anything for me at all. So neither trilogy has much value for me.
I still wish Star Wars had just simply continued after RotJ in the late 80s or early 90s. No prequels. No "focus on the next generation" sequels. Just continue the damn story with the original characters.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Dec 26, 2017 22:14:35 GMT
jeez, these sequels look like an awkward fanfic mess at this point. What did these movies add to the saga except for nostalgia rehash? The Emperor's old clothes with a bit of modern Disney shitstain, no thanks not my style. And Ep9 is written and directed by JJ the hack who has never been present when his mystery boxes were revealed to be empty...lol, I would lmao a bit more if it wasn't would so painfully tragic.
The prequels, love them or hate them, are clearly and consequently built on ideas, vision and imagination: Act I Heyday, Act 2 Twilight, Act II Darkness/Downfall.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2017 22:27:59 GMT
Ultimately, I'm just going to be an OT purist. I enjoy Phantom Menace to a certain extent. And I enjoy Force Awakens to a certain extent. But episodes 2-3, and 8 just don't do anything for me at all. So neither trilogy has much value for me. I still wish Star Wars had just simply continued after RotJ in the late 80s or early 90s. No prequels. No "focus on the next generation" sequels. Just continue the damn story with the original characters. I would have loved to had the OT continue like you say. I've got to believe that Lucas felt that he needed to provide the background of how he saw the Jedi and Republic's fall and the Empire's rise to tell his sequel story correctly, and then with the lashing he took when he told those stories, just never had the desire.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2017 1:25:16 GMT
Ultimately, I'm just going to be an OT purist. I enjoy Phantom Menace to a certain extent. And I enjoy Force Awakens to a certain extent. But episodes 2-3, and 8 just don't do anything for me at all. So neither trilogy has much value for me. I still wish Star Wars had just simply continued after RotJ in the late 80s or early 90s. No prequels. No "focus on the next generation" sequels. Just continue the damn story with the original characters. I would have loved to had the OT continue like you say. I've got to believe that Lucas felt that he needed to provide the background of how he saw the Jedi and Republic's fall and the Empire's rise to tell his sequel story correctly, and then with the lashing he took when he told those stories, just never had the desire. In my opinion the second the prequels were made the possibility of good sequels was gone. Everything interesting that we wanted to explore was done (for better or worse) in the prequels. A Republic, a Jedi Order, multiple Jedi's in their prime... All of these things would've been in the sequels, but the prequels did them first leaving little left to explore. Interestingly, Lucas considered selling the rights to new filmmakers as early as the 80s. I kind of wish he'd done it. That way the sequels would've had a chance to exist earlier on.
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