johanwow
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Post by johanwow on Mar 7, 2017 9:40:05 GMT
After all a lot of horror movies are fictional have supernatural, sci-fi, fantasy elements with rules and logic that does not apply to the real world. However I do think that even a fantasy world does (or should) have rules and some kind of logic. I'm not against a few random elements thrown in that make little sense but movies that throw out logic and everything seems random I find that pretty annoying.
I know it's risky to criticize a cult movie with a huge fandom like Evil Dead but I think it describes my criticism quite well. While others turn into some undead demon in a rather random way, Ash gets som much crap and shit over him and seems like immune for all of it. Well of course he is the hero of the whole franchise but I doubt when the original was made there were plans for sequels.
Another point of criticism is about concepts. I truly like bizarre and crazy concepts as my love for the horrror of HG Lewis I think is a proof of that. But here again something so far fetched that it is just becoming right ridiculous I would criticize pretty harsh.
Now not by any means a good movie but the 1998 version of The Phantom of the Opera is such a movie with a concept like that. The phantom was raised by rats yeah and can do what any normal human can like walk, talk, wear clothes etc. I don't think it can get much dumber than that.
Another one I saw recently which isn't too bad after all, even though slow and boring IMO is Raw Meat (1972). Fact that rail workers becoming trapped for like 100 years and were able to survive on blood and human flesh for several generations without ever being found or caught before... anyway you get my point I guess/hope.
End of rant!
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begob
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Post by begob on Mar 7, 2017 12:00:34 GMT
Here's Tarantino on It Follows - for him it's the little inconsistencies that push the story off track: www.vulture.com/2015/08/how-quentin-tarantino-would-fix-it-follows.htmlI guess with horror you're turning the rules of normality upside down - but rather than have the threat evolve, the trick is to gradually reveal what was hidden all along. So the threat has to be completely conceived at the beginning. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 18:43:25 GMT
I love the 1982 monster movie "The Beast Within", although it sure as hell doesn't bother with such thing as logic. Part of why I love it so much is BECAUSE it's so ridiculous.
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Flynn
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Post by Flynn on Mar 10, 2017 20:58:45 GMT
When we speak of logic in a film, I think we have to consider types. One type of logic defiance involves concept. Many horror films simply eschew logic from a conceptual standpoint. Such films originate from someone having an idea: "What if the dead came back to life one day," or "Wouldn't it be cool if a tragic incident caused a house to become evil?." A screenwriter then takes that concept and comes up with a (sometimes flimsy) reason to get to that original idea.
In "Death Ship," for instance, it is illogical that only a handful of survivors would escape an ocean liner accident. But in order to get to the concept of the film, we have to give the movie some contrivances.
Other types of logic defiance comes in the actions of characters, and I think this is the hard one to get right. When the desired concept of a film maintains a consistent grasp on the direction the writer takes the film, it can lose an audience's good will. One of the major complaints of haunted house movies, for instance, is that the characters don't pick up and leave. They don't, of course, because the movie would be over (and because a new set and location would cost too much), but as a result of conceptual grip, the credibility of the movie's logic is strained to the point that it's too much for some viewers.
I listen to a lot of movie review podcasts, and I have found that people's tolerance for logic defiance depends on whether they are enjoying the concept and atmosphere. Those who don't nit pick everything they can; those who do are much more forgiving.
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Post by alpha128 on Mar 10, 2017 23:57:57 GMT
You want logic in horror movies? Here you go:
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Post by naterdawg on Mar 11, 2017 2:31:31 GMT
You want illogical? Watch What Ever Happened to Baby Jane. You'll find illogical.
Blanche Hudson, "crippled" and "kept prisoner" in her upstairs bedroom by her nutty younger sister, Jane, supposedly has no way out. Yet, there's a big window in her room, and right below is a neighbor woman who apparently spends most of her time outside. Jane regularly leaves the house to run "errands," and Blanche could VERY easily yell down to the neighbor lady. Instead, she types a note, crunches it up, and throws it out the window. Of course, it lands in the middle of the freakin' drive way just as Jane is pulling in. Come on.
All Blanche needed to do is wait until Jane leaves, scream her lungs out at the window, and the movie would've ended.
But no, she didn't do that, because then there'd be NO movie. So, the illogical had to happen, and we must accept it.
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johanwow
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Post by johanwow on Mar 11, 2017 11:17:30 GMT
When we speak of logic in a film, I think we have to consider types. One type of logic defiance involves concept. Many horror films simply eschew logic from a conceptual standpoint. Such films originate from someone having an idea: "What if the dead came back to life one day," or "Wouldn't it be cool if a tragic incident caused a house to become evil?." A screenwriter then takes that concept and comes up with a (sometimes flimsy) reason to get to that original idea. In "Death Ship," for instance, it is illogical that only a handful of survivors would escape an ocean liner accident. But in order to get to the concept of the film, we have to give the movie some contrivances. Other types of logic defiance comes in the actions of characters, and I think this is the hard one to get right. When the desired concept of a film maintains a consistent grasp on the direction the writer takes the film, it can lose an audience's good will. One of the major complaints of haunted house movies, for instance, is that the characters don't pick up and leave. They don't, of course, because the movie would be over (and because a new set and location would cost too much), but as a result of conceptual grip, the credibility of the movie's logic is strained to the point that it's too much for some viewers. I listen to a lot of movie review podcasts, and I have found that people's tolerance for logic defiance depends on whether they are enjoying the concept and atmosphere. Those who don't nit pick everything they can; those who do are much more forgiving. Well in slashers I can understand potential victims make rather dumb decisions. One could say well they are in panic and it seems like a success formula for slasher, let's make it easier too for the villain. Even I admit it can be entertaining when some dumb show off eventually gets slashed. When logic is totally going overboard I think is Eden Lake. Of course if the terrorized couple would just make the sensible option and leave the place, the movie would be over. However the guy kept doing things to tempt and provoke these kids, even tresspassing etc. I actually didn't mind his death that much. That was just getting too ridiculous IMO and I couldn't enjoy it much because of that. |
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Flynn
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Post by Flynn on Mar 11, 2017 13:39:37 GMT
Yeah, I agree with you on Eden Lake. That guy had every opportunity to sense that maybe he shouldn't push those kids, but he never did, and as a result, it's hard not to feel that he had it coming. This is of course and example of a concept determining decisions for characters, and it is a detriment to the film in my opinion.
I do think that better films tend to have fewer of these sorts of moments. Characters do logical things, even if it would spell the end for the movie. When other obstacles get in their way, more tension results because the character did what they should and it still didn't work out.
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begob
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Post by begob on Mar 11, 2017 14:53:15 GMT
We're talking about different things.
One is characters making implausible choices, the other is the incoherence of the horror world that fails to suspend disbelief.
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Post by naterdawg on Mar 11, 2017 15:46:28 GMT
I love the 1982 monster movie "The Beast Within", although it sure as hell doesn't bother with such thing as logic. Part of why I love it so much is BECAUSE it's so ridiculous. There's logic in The Beast Within. The story, as presented, makes perfect sense. What's ridiculous--and laughable--are the special effects during the "beast's transformation." Bladder effects were all the rage in the early 80s, having been used in The Howling and An American Werewolf in London. When The Beast Within used them, they went to insane lengths. Instead of a pulsing muscle in the face, his head blew up like a beach ball. Seriously! Check this out: |
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Post by fangirl1975 on Mar 17, 2017 18:42:28 GMT
A mad scientist turning a guy into a King Cobra strains some viewers' suspension of disbelief.
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