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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jan 3, 2018 2:58:10 GMT
So, if I pray for something bad, an all-loving god is going to grant that prayer? How many prayers does it take for god to do something? A hundred? A thousand? If I pray for something not in god's plan, is he gonna change his plan? Just for me? No, he isn't, but he's got a really good reason - he doesn't exist. Enjoy your comforting delusion of choice. I live in the real world. Also because that sort of prayer, where essentially you ask God™ to do things for you or to give you things is not a very good form of prayer, in fact I would be doubtful to call it prayer at all. There is a tenuous argument I sometimes use when people say that prayer is useless and cite this type of prayer, it is possible that is may galvanise the prayerer into action or give them better focus is fixing the problem themselves, but as I say that sort of prayer is hardly prayer and it's benefits are tenuous. God™ is not a vending machine. Gadreel, I'm so glad we can agree to disagree on the existence of God™ and still be friends. People should take action after getting a better focus on fixing the problem themselves. You call it God™, I call it introspection, but as long as action results from it, it's all good. Has your current situation improved any? Mine has not :-(
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Post by goz on Jan 3, 2018 3:07:08 GMT
So, if I pray for something bad, an all-loving god is going to grant that prayer? How many prayers does it take for god to do something? A hundred? A thousand? If I pray for something not in god's plan, is he gonna change his plan? Just for me? No, he isn't, but he's got a really good reason - he doesn't exist. Enjoy your comforting delusion of choice. I live in the real world. Also because that sort of prayer, where essentially you ask God™ to do things for you or to give you things is not a very good form of prayer, in fact I would be doubtful to call it prayer at all. There is a tenuous argument I sometimes use when people say that prayer is useless and cite this type of prayer, it is possible that is may galvanise the prayerer into action or give them better focus is fixing the problem themselves, but as I say that sort of prayer is hardly prayer and it's benefits are tenuous. God™ is not a vending machine. God is NOT a vending machine? What about all the transubstantiationy wafers and wine that he churns out every Sunday all over the world, as the miraculous change by which according to Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox dogma the eucharistic elements at their consecration become the body and blood of Christ while keeping only the appearances of bread and wine?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2018 3:37:42 GMT
So, if I pray for something bad, an all-loving god is going to grant that prayer? How many prayers does it take for god to do something? A hundred? A thousand? If I pray for something not in god's plan, is he gonna change his plan? Just for me? No, he isn't, but he's got a really good reason - he doesn't exist. Enjoy your comforting delusion of choice. I live in the real world. Also because that sort of prayer, where essentially you ask God™ to do things for you or to give you things is not a very good form of prayer, in fact I would be doubtful to call it prayer at all. There is a tenuous argument I sometimes use when people say that prayer is useless and cite this type of prayer, it is possible that is may galvanise the prayerer into action or give them better focus is fixing the problem themselves, but as I say that sort of prayer is hardly prayer and it's benefits are tenuous. God™ is not a vending machine. Imagine the temerity of asking "God™" to solve the problems that he/she/it needlessly created.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 3, 2018 11:36:16 GMT
Our church prayed, tithed, and fasted to a person, and agreed in prayer meetings all year long that never stopped, that by Christmas Eve, everyone in the world would be Christian.
If prayers really worked then there would have been no need for further prayers since way back.
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Post by gadreel on Jan 3, 2018 17:20:49 GMT
Also because that sort of prayer, where essentially you ask God™ to do things for you or to give you things is not a very good form of prayer, in fact I would be doubtful to call it prayer at all. There is a tenuous argument I sometimes use when people say that prayer is useless and cite this type of prayer, it is possible that is may galvanise the prayerer into action or give them better focus is fixing the problem themselves, but as I say that sort of prayer is hardly prayer and it's benefits are tenuous. God™ is not a vending machine. Gadreel, I'm so glad we can agree to disagree on the existence of God™ and still be friends. People should take action after getting a better focus on fixing the problem themselves. You call it God™, I call it introspection, but as long as action results from it, it's all good. Has your current situation improved any? Mine has not :-( I am glad we can disagree too. Yeah I mean in that instance the worth of prayer is about as useful as introspection, as I say that is a tenuous form of prayer. I do (of course) hold that there is valuable prayer and of course I also still believe in a God™ and find use out of that. Yeah my situation goes up and down, one year today and I am filled today with a new purpose, looking at a house to buy this evening. Sorry yours has not, I can completely sympathise with the stagnant feeling that goes with the ceaselessness of issues like that. I hope things improve.
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Post by gadreel on Jan 3, 2018 17:21:37 GMT
Also because that sort of prayer, where essentially you ask God™ to do things for you or to give you things is not a very good form of prayer, in fact I would be doubtful to call it prayer at all. There is a tenuous argument I sometimes use when people say that prayer is useless and cite this type of prayer, it is possible that is may galvanise the prayerer into action or give them better focus is fixing the problem themselves, but as I say that sort of prayer is hardly prayer and it's benefits are tenuous. God™ is not a vending machine. God is NOT a vending machine? What about all the transubstantiationy wafers and wine that he churns out every Sunday all over the world, as the miraculous change by which according to Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox dogma the eucharistic elements at their consecration become the body and blood of Christ while keeping only the appearances of bread and wine? Not really sure how that follows, I suspect you are just trying on a dig, but I do not believe in transubstantiation.
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Post by gadreel on Jan 3, 2018 17:22:47 GMT
Also because that sort of prayer, where essentially you ask God™ to do things for you or to give you things is not a very good form of prayer, in fact I would be doubtful to call it prayer at all. There is a tenuous argument I sometimes use when people say that prayer is useless and cite this type of prayer, it is possible that is may galvanise the prayerer into action or give them better focus is fixing the problem themselves, but as I say that sort of prayer is hardly prayer and it's benefits are tenuous. God™ is not a vending machine. Imagine the temerity of asking "God™" to solve the problems that he/she/it needlessly created. Yup that is certainly one way of looking at it, but it is also a little bit pedestrian in thought.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jan 3, 2018 18:27:47 GMT
Gadreel, I'm so glad we can agree to disagree on the existence of God™ and still be friends. People should take action after getting a better focus on fixing the problem themselves. You call it God™, I call it introspection, but as long as action results from it, it's all good. Has your current situation improved any? Mine has not :-( I am glad we can disagree too. Yeah I mean in that instance the worth of prayer is about as useful as introspection, as I say that is a tenuous form of prayer. I do (of course) hold that there is valuable prayer and of course I also still believe in a God™ and find use out of that. Yeah my situation goes up and down, one year today and I am filled today with a new purpose, looking at a house to buy this evening. Sorry yours has not, I can completely sympathise with the stagnant feeling that goes with the ceaselessness of issues like that. I hope things improve. Thanks, I don't think it will anytime soon, but... congrats that you are filled with new purpose and looking at a house, I hope it goes well! Take care! Best of luck to you!
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Post by gadreel on Jan 3, 2018 18:30:35 GMT
I am glad we can disagree too. Yeah I mean in that instance the worth of prayer is about as useful as introspection, as I say that is a tenuous form of prayer. I do (of course) hold that there is valuable prayer and of course I also still believe in a God™ and find use out of that. Yeah my situation goes up and down, one year today and I am filled today with a new purpose, looking at a house to buy this evening. Sorry yours has not, I can completely sympathise with the stagnant feeling that goes with the ceaselessness of issues like that. I hope things improve. Thanks, I don't think it will anytime soon, but... congrats that you are filled with new purpose and looking at a house, I hope it goes well! Take care! Best of luck to you! Thanks, yeah over Christmas I realised I have been slacking on making sure my daughter has a home, so that is priority number one.
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Post by goz on Jan 4, 2018 3:58:47 GMT
God is NOT a vending machine? What about all the transubstantiationy wafers and wine that he churns out every Sunday all over the world, as the miraculous change by which according to Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox dogma the eucharistic elements at their consecration become the body and blood of Christ while keeping only the appearances of bread and wine? Not really sure how that follows, I suspect you are just trying on a dig, but I do not believe in transubstantiation. ...then you won't be offended by my 'joke'!
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Post by gadreel on Jan 4, 2018 17:11:10 GMT
Not really sure how that follows, I suspect you are just trying on a dig, but I do not believe in transubstantiation. ...then you won't be offended by my 'joke'! only by it's complete lack of humour.
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