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Post by scabab on Jan 5, 2018 7:29:44 GMT
Probably Loki. He's not a full on villain anymore though I suppose. So basically MCU copied Fox and made Loki not a full-on villain anymore, just like Fox made Magneto and Mystique not full-on villains anymore. Lets not go the bait route yeah? For once let's try and not to do that. You know full well that it's been common in comics long before these movies that there's been villains who've changed overtime. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 10:25:59 GMT
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Post by formersamhmd on Jan 5, 2018 12:38:42 GMT
So basically MCU copied Fox and made Loki not a full-on villain anymore, just like Fox made Magneto and Mystique not full-on villains anymore. No because the turn with Loki began in Dark World which was 2014 the same year as DOFP
Dark World was in 2013, before DOFP. Fox ripped off MCU. |
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Post by scabab on Jan 5, 2018 13:12:07 GMT
Nobody ripped off anybody. Just stay on topic.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jan 5, 2018 15:41:02 GMT
Vulture isn't the most likeable he's possibly the most relatable or even sympathetic but he's not likable, you cant threaten to murder a 15 year old in cold blood knowing he's only 15 and him having not done something extreme and evil to you to justify such a threat and be likeable. It was justified. Peter was trying to prevent Toomes from providing for his family. It's admirable that Toomes was willing to go to any lengths to take care of the most important people in his life. Unlike Tony Stark, who never even warned Pepper to stay away from the house for awhile after he announced his home address on TV to the whole world so the bad guys could launch a missile at his house because he didn't give a shit that Pepper could be in the line of fire when the bad guys launched their missile.
Also, Peter can't claim that he's just a kid and shouldn't be threatened when he puts on a mask and becomes a vigilante and takes on armed bank robbers. If Peter wants to do that, then Peter should be expected to be treated like an adult, which means he can't cry foul when someone threatens him.
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Post by Vassaggo on Jan 5, 2018 16:05:54 GMT
Vulture isn't the most likeable he's possibly the most relatable or even sympathetic but he's not likable, you cant threaten to murder a 15 year old in cold blood knowing he's only 15 and him having not done something extreme and evil to you to justify such a threat and be likeable. It was justified. Peter was trying to prevent Toomes from providing for his family. It's admirable that Toomes was willing to go to any lengths to take care of his family. Also, Peter can't claim that he's just a kid and shouldn't be threatened when he puts on a mask and becomes a vigilante and takes on armed bank robbers. If Peter wants to do that, then Peter should be expected to be treated like an adult, which means he can't cry foul when someone threatens him. There is about 8 years between The Battle of New York to Spiderman Homecoming in story. Toomes was part of the clean up for Battle of New York. Lets be conservative and say Toomes was fired a year after the Incident. That gives Toomes 7 years to make and sell his stolen weapons. Lets give him 1 year r&d and another year to get contacts in underworld for his weapons. Thats 5 years of selling High Tech arms. If he couldn't get enough money in 5 years to provide for his family for the rest of their lives he's an idiot. More believable is he loved the power he gained being an arms dealer. He got addicted like Walter White did to the power and loved the fact he was sticking it to people like Tony. So his original motive of making money for his family got corrupted. And Toomes just didn't threaten Spiderman or Peter Parker. He threaten to kill everyone he loved. So Toomes threaten to kill countless people that are innocent in cold blood. I think the most relatable villain is Helmut Zemo. He motive is just good old fashioned revenge for his family. Everyone has felt that emotion. Being helpless to stop something hurting his family. And even though the Avengers tried there damnest to not have Collateral Damage saving the city they were responsible. The most likable villain is Loki. He is the most charismatic of the villains. And I wouldn't even call Loki evil. He is more like Chaotic Neutral to use a D&D term. He does some good some evil but he does everything for his personal gain. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 16:24:54 GMT
It was justified. Peter was trying to prevent Toomes from providing for his family. It's admirable that Toomes was willing to go to any lengths to take care of his family. Also, Peter can't claim that he's just a kid and shouldn't be threatened when he puts on a mask and becomes a vigilante and takes on armed bank robbers. If Peter wants to do that, then Peter should be expected to be treated like an adult, which means he can't cry foul when someone threatens him. There is about 8 years between The Battle of New York to Spiderman Homecoming in story. Toomes was part of the clean up for Battle of New York. Lets be conservative and say Toomes was fired a year after the Incident. That gives Toomes 7 years to make and sell his stolen weapons. Lets give him 1 year r&d and another year to get contacts in underworld for his weapons. Thats 5 years of selling High Tech arms. If he couldn't get enough money in 5 years to get enough money to provide for his family for the rest of their lives he's an idiot. More believable is he loved the power he gained being an arms dealer. He got addicted like Walter White did to the power and loved the fact he was sticking it to people like Tony. So his original motive of making money for his family got corrupted. And Toomes just didn't threaten Spiderman or Peter Parker. He threaten to kill everyone he loved. So Toomes threaten to kill countless people that are innocent in cold blood. I think the most relatable villain is Helmut Zemo. He motive is just good old fashioned revenge for his family. Everyone has felt that emotion. Being helpless to stop something hurting his family. And even though the Avengers tried there damnest to not have Collateral Damage saving the city they were responsible. The most likable villain is Loki. He is the most charismatic of the villains. And I wouldn't even call Loki evil. He is more like Chaotic Neutral to use a D&D term. He does some good some evil but he does everything for his personal gain. If these folks were all real: I would enjoy sitting at a bar throwing back cold ones talking to Toomes the most. I like him. I might even say "Hey Toomes, you're going overboard with that kid, cut him some slack, you were a kid once too." , then he would say "You don't know what he's fuckin putting me through, so shut the fuck up" and I'ld roll my eyes at him, Then he would say "Well maybe, we'll see". He probably would buy a round of drinks every once in a while. Zemo would be all whiney about whatever happened to him in the past plotting his revenge, crying in a booth, and that would suck balls. I would say, "Hey, that's in the past, it sucked, bad things happen to good people, and there's always the courts", and he wouldn't budge, ever. The kind of guy that's going to make a mess of everything because he's miserable and everybody has to be miserable too. There's no liking that kind of guy. Loki, yes, he would be a fun guy to be around when he wanted you to be around him, and have that snobbish air about him all other times. When it suits him, he might grace you with his presence, and he would do all the talking, then when the time to pay the tab, he would have run off with some girl every freaking time and he's been drinking some expensive shit. |
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Post by dazz on Jan 5, 2018 17:21:28 GMT
Vulture isn't the most likeable he's possibly the most relatable or even sympathetic but he's not likable, you cant threaten to murder a 15 year old in cold blood knowing he's only 15 and him having not done something extreme and evil to you to justify such a threat and be likeable. It was justified. Peter was trying to prevent Toomes from providing for his family. It's admirable that Toomes was willing to go to any lengths to take care of the most important people in his life. Unlike Tony Stark, who never even warned Pepper to stay away from the house for awhile after he announced his home address on TV to the whole world so the bad guys could launch a missile at his house because he didn't give a shit that Pepper could be in the line of fire when the bad guys launched their missile.
Also, Peter can't claim that he's just a kid and shouldn't be threatened when he puts on a mask and becomes a vigilante and takes on armed bank robbers. If Peter wants to do that, then Peter should be expected to be treated like an adult, which means he can't cry foul when someone threatens him.
No it's not justified, that logic is fucking retarded, you shit your pants whining about Cap this and Stark that for their accidental misdeeds but think Vulture is justified, he's no more justified in his actions than any other illegal arms dealer or drug dealer, he's sympathetic and relatable because of his motivating factors but that doesn't equate to being justified.
Plus Peter doesn't claim anything Vulture making such a threat against Spidey in costume prior to finding out who he really is Vs threatening him once he knows who Spidey is changes everything, before hand Vulture can assume Spidey's a grown arse man, maybe he's just another Stark in his mind, but once he knows Spidey is a 15 year old kid and friend of his own child means this guy has that bit of his soul missing that most normal people have.
I get you like to be contrarian with all things MCU but this is just fucking idiotic.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jan 6, 2018 2:20:07 GMT
It was justified. Peter was trying to prevent Toomes from providing for his family. It's admirable that Toomes was willing to go to any lengths to take care of the most important people in his life. Unlike Tony Stark, who never even warned Pepper to stay away from the house for awhile after he announced his home address on TV to the whole world so the bad guys could launch a missile at his house because he didn't give a shit that Pepper could be in the line of fire when the bad guys launched their missile.
Also, Peter can't claim that he's just a kid and shouldn't be threatened when he puts on a mask and becomes a vigilante and takes on armed bank robbers. If Peter wants to do that, then Peter should be expected to be treated like an adult, which means he can't cry foul when someone threatens him.
Vulture making such a threat against Spidey in costume prior to finding out who he really is Vs threatening him once he knows who Spidey is changes everything, before hand Vulture can assume Spidey's a grown arse man, maybe he's just another Stark in his mind, but once he knows Spidey is a 15 year old kid and friend of his own child means this guy has that bit of his soul missing that most normal people have.
No, it was completely justified because Toomes threatened Peter for Peter's actions as a vigilante trying to prevent Toomes from providing for his family. Peter's entire motivation for being a superhero in SMH is to try to impress Tony Stark. So Peter thinks that being a superhero is all fun and games.
But it isn't a game. If Peter wants to be a vigilante and take on bad guys, then he should expect bad guys to try to kill him just like they would any other vigilante. The Teen Titans don't go crying foul every time a bad guy tries to kill them. If Peter can't handle being threatened, then he has no business being in the superhero business.
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Post by dazz on Jan 6, 2018 6:29:40 GMT
Vulture making such a threat against Spidey in costume prior to finding out who he really is Vs threatening him once he knows who Spidey is changes everything, before hand Vulture can assume Spidey's a grown arse man, maybe he's just another Stark in his mind, but once he knows Spidey is a 15 year old kid and friend of his own child means this guy has that bit of his soul missing that most normal people have.
No, it was completely justified because Toomes threatened Peter for Peter's actions as a vigilante trying to prevent Toomes from providing for his family. Peter's entire motivation for being a superhero in SMH is to try to impress Tony Stark. So Peter thinks that being a superhero is all fun and games.
But it isn't a game. If Peter wants to be a vigilante and take on bad guys, then he should expect bad guys to try to kill him just like they would any other vigilante. The Teen Titans don't go crying foul every time a bad guy tries to kill them. If Peter can't handle being threatened, then he has no business being in the superhero business.
Neither did Peter you dumb arse, he isn't the one calling foul I am because it shows the depth of Vultures darkness, it's not justifiable at all, if you think it is your a fucking lunatic, it's no more justifiable than any street level drug dealer or kingpin threatening a kids life for witnessing a crime, and seeing as Vulture had someone in place to kill Peter means it wasn't an empty threat Vulture made but an intent he actually has to have come true.
And no that's not Peter's motivation for being Spider-Man Peter is already Spidey regardless Peter's driving force is to become an Avenger because he want to do more than just stop purse thieves and save cats from tree's, he wants to do more good then he feels he is doing as the local superhero, this is why even when Tony takes back the suit Peter doesn't give up being Spidey, you have it backwards his goal to impress Tony is so he can be a greater hero, he's not being a hero to impress Tony, and he doesn't think it's all fun and games that's why he hides his identity, why he freaks when Ned finds out, why even when Tony blows him off about the boat he goes to it to stop it, Peter knows the seriousness of what he's doing but he's still a kid so he mistakes Tony telling him to step back as Tony not caring about the crimes, and that's the other thing he film makes it abundantly clear Peter is still a kid which is what helps up the tension in the scene with Vulture & Peter in the car, because it isn't just a villain threatening a hero, but a man threatening to murder a kid, which is also the point, Vulture is otherwise relatable and surface level sympathetic so when he threatens Peter as Peter to make it clear this guys a fucking villain because he's threatening to murder a kid.
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Post by Power Ranger on Jan 6, 2018 6:49:11 GMT
You seem to know more about the MCU than these MCU fans. Yet you’re a DC fan? Well Justice League was better than the Avengers.
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Post by Grabthar's Hammer on Jan 10, 2018 10:36:10 GMT
MCU fans here claim that I'm biased against MCU and never say anything positive about MCU, but that's false. I've said many times that Daredevil and Luke Cage aren't bad and even said that Iron Fist is better than what the reviews said. Now this is another positive thread about MCU. While MCU has had plenty of awful villains, MCU has had 2 villains who aren't as bad. The Kingpin is the best MCU villain on TV. But the most likable villain in MCU is Adrian Toomes. Toomes did the things he did not because he was trying to control or destroy the world (like Ultron or Thanos) and not because he was greedy (like Obadiah Stane), but because he was just trying to provide for his family, until Tony Stark's Damage Control team screwed him and took away his means of providing for his family. Toomes was unarmed, but Tony Stark's Damage Control team still pulled out their guns and threatened to shoot him. And after Toomes went to jail, he could've ratted out Peter to the other prisoners who wanted to know Spider-Man's identity, but Toomes protected Peter. This is just an opinion, but I never really felt like it was Tony Stark's Damage Control. It was a joint operation between Stark and the U.S. government. Stark is pretty arrogant and doesn't mind throwing his money around. I can't help but feel like he had no idea what he was doing to Toomes and his men or he would've just reimbursed him for the trucks and probably threw more money at them just because. But I can't say for sure because I don't believe anything like that is mentioned. |
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