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Post by Jedan Archer on Jan 6, 2018 13:06:22 GMT
Perhaps...but they still weren't anything to write home about. And spare me the whole "focusing on heroes is better than focusing on villains because otherwise we don't get as much development for the heroes" spiel. There have been plenty of great movie villains with genuine menace that have very little screen time to take away from the hero (Silva in Skyfall, Darth Vader in A New Hope, Hannibal Lecter in The Silence of the Lambs, John Doe in Seven, and even the second best MCU villain, The Winter Soldier, in his titular movie, etc). Hannibal Lecter completely overshadowed the protagonists in Silence of the Lambs. Darth Vader also overshadowed Luke Skywalker in A new hope. There's always a price to pay to make a good villain... you take away focus from the hero. I disagree about Silva being a good villain. He had that one cool face off with Bond but that was about it for him. If you are afraid that a good villain overshadows your hero that is really telling about how weak a hero you have. There is a reason that since ancient drama the golden rule has always been that the hero is just as good the villains/obstacles he faces. Good villain make your hero more interesting and challenge his character. - Luke was not lame in Act 1 because he of Vader overshadowing him - they never even met in ANH . Vader was just a breathing suit in ANH. Luke was overshadowed by cooler character like Han Solo, Obi Wan and Leia and because he went on a hero's journey from Zero to Hero, it's the point. - Hannibal Lector was not even the antagonist/villain in Silence of the Lambs, he was just 15 minutes in - and he did not overshadow the heroin, but made her more nuanced and human as a character as good characters & villains do. The same goes for the sequel and Hannibal show to an even bigger extent. The most popular and famous Bond films are those with great villains, like Goldfinger. There is a reason for that. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Jan 6, 2018 13:10:42 GMT
Logan was a film where the main villain is Howlett himself Lame cop-out. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Jan 6, 2018 13:15:18 GMT
If you are afraid that a good villain overshadows your hero that is really telling about how weak a hero you have. No, they'd just rather give what limited time they have to the hero rather than give it all to the villain. That's the excuse of generations of lazy writers who didn't care about their hero. You can have internal conflict to create drama for the hero as much as anything. He's STILL overshadowed by them in all 3 of the OT! And still was more memorable than Clarice. You do know that even Sean Connery disliked Goldfinger for how pathetic Bond was in it, right? |
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Post by charzhino on Jan 6, 2018 17:18:48 GMT
Logan was a film where the main villain is Howlett himself Lame cop-out. Not lame, its better than choosing any flashy villain even if they dont fit the heros struggles narratively. And MCU have done the same, "hero faces a stronger version of himself" trope. Ironmonger vs ironman, hulk vs abomination. Captain america vs red skull. Antman v yellowjacket. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Jan 6, 2018 17:29:31 GMT
Not lame, its better than choosing any flashy villain even if they dont fit the heros struggles narratively. Lame. If they wanted to symbolize Logan facing his past then Sabretooth would've been a fine choice. For the first movie to set them up, not to close out their story. |
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Jan 6, 2018 17:35:08 GMT
Not lame, its better than choosing any flashy villain even if they dont fit the heros struggles narratively. Lame. If they wanted to symbolize Logan facing his past then Sabretooth would've been a fine choice. For the first movie to set them up, not to close out their story. Just out of curiosity, who would you pick as the films antagonist? |
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Post by claudius on Jan 6, 2018 17:52:55 GMT
"You do know that even Sean Connery disliked Goldfinger for how pathetic Bond was in it, right?"
Feh, Connery wasn't the biggest Bond fan. I will admit that Bond's situation in GOLDFINGER was a problem for me back then. But I've warmed over to Bond being put in situation where problem-solving devices that would have worked in other Bond films (the Aston Martin, using the gangster for the homing device) FAIL him.
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Post by formersamhmd on Jan 6, 2018 17:56:09 GMT
Lame. If they wanted to symbolize Logan facing his past then Sabretooth would've been a fine choice. For the first movie to set them up, not to close out their story. Just out of curiosity, who would you pick as the films antagonist? I'd have had Sabretooth be one of the guys working for the Doctor guy. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Jan 6, 2018 17:57:02 GMT
"You do know that even Sean Connery disliked Goldfinger for how pathetic Bond was in it, right?" Feh, Connery wasn't the biggest Bond fan. I will admit that Bond's situation in GOLDFINGER was a problem for me back then. But I've warmed over to Bond being put in situation where problem-solving devices that would have worked in other Bond films (the Aston Martin, using the gangster for the homing device) FAIL him. But still, having everything hinge on Bond being able to bed a lesbian (even though Fleming later had her admit she wasn't really a lesbian but being raped as a girl messed her up) is...kind of pathetic. |
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Post by claudius on Jan 6, 2018 18:17:18 GMT
When the devices fail, one has to resort to anything...
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Post by Skaathar on Jan 6, 2018 19:08:30 GMT
Not lame, its better than choosing any flashy villain even if they dont fit the heros struggles narratively. And MCU have done the same, "hero faces a stronger version of himself" trope. Ironmonger vs ironman, hulk vs abomination. Captain america vs red skull. Antman v yellowjacket. The difference is that Ironmonger, Red Skull, Abomination and Yellowjacket all had individual personalities and characteristics of their own and even their powersets were slightly different from the heroes. X24 is a flat out carbon copy of Logan, just slightly stronger and with zero personality. |
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jan 7, 2018 0:48:13 GMT
Not news. I already proved this in a poll ages ago. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2018 12:51:17 GMT
No. William Shatner as Two Face in ‘Batman vs Two Face’ and Deathstroke in ‘Teen Titans: The Judas Contract’ beat every villain in the DCEU and MCU in 2017 by a mile and yes, MCU do have a problem with villains but the DCEU has the same problem and what it comes down to is they are just not very good at writing villains anymore. The animated movies, the TV shows and the Arkham games have been far better with coming up with memorable villains than the live action movies and I would put 'Smallville's' Lex Luthor, Lionel Luthor, Braniac, Zod and Bizarro, 'Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman's' Lex Luthor and Tempus and even 'Arrow's' Deathstroke have been more memorable than all of them. The only memorable two have been Harley Quinn and Loki but that could change very soon with 'Batgirl' and 'Wonder Woman 2' on the way and Cheetah and Knightfall are two of the best female villains of all time. 
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