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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jan 15, 2018 18:10:22 GMT
Tony Stark by a clear distance. Hes solely responsible for Ultron yet he wants the team to suffer by putting them all under government control (which he opposed to in IM2 court trial). The ground reasons for "Civil War" are so flaky and unrealistic if you study past character traits. Alsi hes a hypocrite for allowing Peter Parker to tag along to a dangerous street brawl with adults, the exact same scenario he should avoid after his encounter with the black mother whose son died in Sokovia. He doesnt learn his lessons. He puts others at danger. If he just retired at the end of IM3 like he said he was going to, the world would be a safer place. this rings true, also " I don't care, he killed my mom!" when he had a clobber meltdown with Cap because a brainwashed drone killed his mom decades ago, and despite him knowing what was at stake (world peace and the Avengers). Losing a loved one creates a hole in the hearts of people and few see that space completely whole again no matter how much time has past. When confronting the reality of it emotions tend to get the better of people instead of reason and logic. Tony loved his parents, especially his mother, and learning that it was Bucky who pulled the trigger just set him off.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jan 15, 2018 19:03:25 GMT
this rings true, also " I don't care, he killed my mom!" when he had a clobber meltdown with Cap because a brainwashed drone killed his mom decades ago, and despite him knowing what was at stake (world peace and the Avengers). Losing a loved one creates a hole in the hearts of people and few see that space completely whole again no matter how much time has past. When confronting the reality of it emotions tend to get the better of people instead of reason and logic. Tony loved his parents, especially his mother, and learning that it was Bucky who pulled the trigger just set him off. VILLAINS jeopardize the world and their friends/allies to take personal revenge on a drone (Winter Soldier) who is a mere brainwashed victim himself. HERO's do not do that, they put the interests and welfare of others first. Which alone makes Starks per definitionem the "most despicable hero" in MCU. And did not the paper thin villain in CW do the same as Tony for comparable reasons? Question answered. Apart from this, this was the most cringe worthy, forced-conflict writing in recent memory. Even the abysmal formula motivation of " You should not have killed my mom...or squished my walk man" is more rooted in character than this. Would the Fox Men ever sport such juvenile dreck? No! They are better than that. (Not anymore, alas) The DCEU? Well technically yes. But even "You must save Martha" pales, as it makes the Heros become allies because of common interests: saving the ones they love plus giving Bats after failing as a child finally the chance to save a Martha mom. I get the sound motivation yet it's horribly cheesy and badly executed.
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Post by dazz on Jan 15, 2018 21:03:54 GMT
Tony Stark by a clear distance. Hes solely responsible for Ultron yet he wants the team to suffer by putting them all under government control (which he opposed to in IM2 court trial). The ground reasons for "Civil War" are so flaky and unrealistic if you study past character traits. Alsi hes a hypocrite for allowing Peter Parker to tag along to a dangerous street brawl with adults, the exact same scenario he should avoid after his encounter with the black mother whose son died in Sokovia. He doesnt learn his lessons. He puts others at danger. If he just retired at the end of IM3 like he said he was going to, the world would be a safer place. this rings true, also " I don't care, he killed my mom!" when he had a clobber meltdown with Cap because a brainwashed drone killed his mom decades ago, and despite him knowing what was at stake (world peace and the Avengers). World peace wasn't at stake, in fact he actual threat had dissipated by that point as the threat was presumably Zemo in control of a squad of Winter Soldiers but he'd killed them all already so there was no threat and peace wasn't on the line.
Also the severity of Tony's reaction is understandable he not only learned Bucky killed his parents but had to actually watch a recording of it, learn his "friend" knew about it and kept it secret, that his friend had basically ripped their team in half to protect him, these are big revelations Tony gets bombarded with all at once, but not only that but as the film reveals to us early on Tony still hasn't fully dealt with his own feelings of grief and regret over their death so it's still a open wound he's dealing with even decades on.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Jan 15, 2018 22:53:44 GMT
Scarlet Witch definitely has blood on her hands. She aided Ultron for a brief time who caused massive casualties. She also lost control of the contained explosion and killed people.
Tony Stark, the champion of fuck ups, created Ultron.
S.H.I.E.L.D was infested with nazi's
The American government for wanting to detonate a nuclear bomb in a heavily populated city.
The Punisher actions inspired a terrorist.
The United Nations tried to kill T'challa, king of Wakanda
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Post by Skaathar on Jan 15, 2018 23:07:02 GMT
Scarlet Witch definitely has blood on her hands. She aided Ultron for a brief time who caused massive casualties. She also lost control of the contained explosion and killed people. Tony Stark, the champion of fuck ups, created Ultron. S.H.I.E.L.D was infested with nazi's The American government for wanting to detonate a nuclear bomb in a heavily populated city. The Punisher actions inspired a terrorist. The United Nations tried to kill T'challa, king of Wakanda I have to disagree with Scarlet Witch having blood on her hands. She tried to contain a bomb, she wasn't the one to set it off and she didn't even trigger the even that set it off. All she did was try to contain it, and it would have killed people regardless of whether she tried or not. While she worked with Ultron, I don't recall her actually helping out in killing people. The most she did was mind fog the Avengers... though I guess you could blame her for setting Hulk on a rampage. Just don't know if he actually killed people in the spree.
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Post by charzhino on Jan 15, 2018 23:33:49 GMT
It's called character development. He'd be upset at his younger self now. Its poor character development then. He starts of with the correct position of not wanting the government to own his gadgets to now retarding that and wanting the opposite, all because he has a guilt trip over 1 random black boy that he indirectly killed (as if the death of Yinsin meant nothing - a guy who died because he didn't want outside aggressors taking over their technology). Starks also dumb for wanting "Government" to control avengers actions even knowing Hydra had a sleeper cell in the defence department of SHIELD. If you want to defend negative character development then continue. You complain that Xavier is a coward and doesnt open up and cooperate with the government. Its shown clearly in the films, like MCU, that government/special divisions are infested with rogue personnel or groups, be it Stryker,Trask, HYDRA. Why anyone would still trust them makes 0 sense. I guess if Stark acted like Xavier and rightly kept the government away from his operations after witnessing the corruption, you would become a hypocrite so you let Starks bizare decision go. Dont care about BvS. Too little too late
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Post by formersamhmd on Jan 15, 2018 23:39:20 GMT
Its poor character development then. He starts of with the correct position of not wanting the government to own his gadgets to now retarding that and wanting the opposite, all because he has a guilt trip over 1 random black boy that he indirectly killed (as if the death of Yinsin meant nothing - a guy who died because he didn't want outside aggressors taking over their technology). He starts off no longer thinking himself infallible, and the one dead kid was just the straw the broke the camel's back. So he thinks the Accords are good and maybe they can amend them if they're too restricted. I know you think characters shouldn't change because of how Xavier and Magneto are, but the MCU isn't that limited. And now Hydra's been exposed. And he should've killed Magneto long ago too, don't forget that. Because wanting to join them to help reform them is better than hiding like cowards. No, Peter's okay and alive. Not too little not too late.
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Post by charzhino on Jan 16, 2018 11:10:26 GMT
He starts off no longer thinking himself infallible, and the one dead kid was just the straw the broke the camel's back. So he thinks the Accords are good and maybe they can amend them if they're too restricted. I know you think characters shouldn't change because of how Xavier and Magneto are, but the MCU isn't that limited. No, change in character is fine only if past actions justify it. Starks turn to allying with government is illogical. Caps change in allegiances make sense. He starts out wanting to be in the military and represent the red, white and blue. After he wakes up from suspended animation, during the events of Winter Soldier he sees the lengths that big organisations will go to in order to keep peace (and Fury is ok with it) and he is disgusted by it. And this is before HYDRA are revealed too. So his distrust in government/SHIELD as a means of control is logical. For Stark its 100% not. Lazy writing just to provide some conflict. He starts off infallible and regresses to become a government stooge, where nothing thats happened in the films before CW would justify that character direction. He stopped providing weapons to military incase theyd get into the wrong hands (also these weapons would have killed many, incl the Pietro and Wandas family). Yinsin died in order to protect his and Starks tech falling into 3rd party hands. Stark uncovers SHIELD building nuclear-style weaponry in Avengers using the tesseract and is disgusted. So after all this, a random kid who died (millions more would have died if Ultron succeeded - Starks fault anyway) suddenly makes him trust the government and is pro-accords. This is assuming absolutely no one died during the alien invasion in Avengers or hulkbuster fight. But just this 1 sob story kid. Sorry not buying it. The premise of CW is heavily flawed and its the most overrated MCU flick of them all.
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Post by formersamhmd on Jan 16, 2018 11:19:17 GMT
No, change in character is fine only if past actions justify it. Not if it's an MCU character, then all you do is complain. He saw how him thinking he was infallible and having no checks and balances didn't work out so he figured cooperating with the Authorities could hardly be worse. Plus by this point Hydra was exposed so he figured it would be easier to deal with then. Like how he can keep putting Ross on hold without getting punished. Cripes, you really think the kid alone did it? That was just the straw that broke the camel's back. He was already aware of the Accords before then.
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Post by charzhino on Jan 16, 2018 11:31:02 GMT
Not if it's an MCU character, then all you do is complain. I just said Caps change in character is fine. Very weak reasoning given that everything was working out fine until he started the Ultron programme. HE then should have the self awareness to retire like he said he was going to in IM3. If he cant lead the Avengers competently, after hiding information from them in the form of the Ultron which is directly responsible for the debate on signing up to Sokovia Accords, then he isnt fit to lead. Just like Furys initial brief on him in Ironman 1/2 said, his personality profile is a negative match for the Avengers initiative. And fast forward to 2018 nothing has changed in his character despite what you say. Hes still self centred, egotistical, dangerously unpredictable, irresponsible and reckless. If you keep pushing that Xavier, leader of his own superhero team should kill Magneto for the good of the world, then you have to advocate that Stark should retire because of above reasons given his track record.
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Post by formersamhmd on Jan 16, 2018 12:01:15 GMT
Anyone else is bad, apparently. No matter how they got Iron Man being willing to work with the Government you'd be complaining.
Part of his character, he took what was really more a critique on himself (needing checks and balances) and his guilt meant that they all ended up paying for it.
I wouldn't have minded it if AOU ended with Stark getting arrested and then being let out in CW due to him making a deal to get out in exchange for him signing the Accords (out of guilt, not just self-centeredness).
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Post by dazz on Jan 17, 2018 3:05:35 GMT
The premise of CW is heavily flawed and its the most overrated MCU flick of them all. Agreed. It was just lazy, contrived writing to get them to fight. A camera on a remote road in the middle of nowhere that just happened to be located at the right spot and pointed in the right location? Zemo finding the only copy of the videotape from 25 years ago when nobody else even knew the videotape existed? Just really lazy, contrived writing. See the camera thing kind of makes sense and kind of does not depending on the circumstances, such as was the camera always there and if so was the feed hijacked by Hydra? If it was either hijacked during the assassination or placed there by Hydra prior to it then it being there makes sense, Hydra picked the location of the hit to ensure they could watch Bucky do it, given Howard is someone Bucky likely knew and was at that time the closest thing to a trigger in causing his program to fail makes sense Hydra would want to monitor his actions in that mission.
Now if it wasn't then it's just fucking stupid that A: Hydra planned for Bucky to kill them on that road given it had surveillance and B: no one ever bothered to check said camera to see what had happened.
Though Zemo knowing about the camera recording their death is still too specific a point for my liking, but as stated superhero films often have these elements, I mean even the most beloved ones have absolutely retarded story elements, even Nolan's trilogy is littered with absolutely stupid plot elements if you put any thought into it.
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Post by dazz on Jan 17, 2018 3:20:59 GMT
I think pretty much every superhero movie will have flaws in logic here and there. That said, MCU heroes behave in way more logical and realistic ways than DCEU heroes. How is Scott Lang saying he wants his daughter to be proud of her ex-con dad and then going to Germany to aid and abet a double-murderer to escape from the law and getting his ass thrown in jail logical?
How is Clint Barton putting his girlfriend and 2 young children at risk by taking the Avengers (who are being hunted by Ultron) to hide at his home, where his girlfriend and 2 young children live logical?
How is Clint Barton abandoning his 2 young children to go to Germany to aid and abet a double-murderer to escape from the law and getting his ass thrown in jail logical?
How is Tony Stark announcing his home address on TV to the whole world and then not warning his girlfriend (who has no superpowers to defend herself) to stay away from the house for awhile so she doesn't get in the line of fire when the bad guys attack his house logical?
Well in order 1: Scott's trying to make his daughter proud, sometimes whats right isn't the obvious thing, though I think it's a case like everyone else on Team Cap in CW of them deciding the like Cap so they go along with him despite his side of the "civil war" having no real point or meaning to it beyond Cap's own personal interest, but for a guy like Scott who probably grew up idolising Cap he thinks Cap is the embodiment of good so he just assumes Cap has the moral high ground in the fight hence him siding with him, also stop referring to Bucky as a double murderer it makes no sense, he isn't guilty of murder, he was a programmed assassin so refer to him as such or as the MCU's most notorious assassin holds the same weight but you dound like less a twat.
2: That's Clint's wife not his girlfriend, Ultron didn't know where the Barton residence was, only Fury and Widow knew of it's location outside the family so Ultron couldn't find them and it was the only secure location they could go to, it's no more dangerous than any other time Barton a well known and decorated former Shield agent and Avenger would go home.
3: Similar to Lang but with the added weight of Cap & Barton being friends though what is illogical is the fact he nor Falco Falcon or Wanda actually consider trying to smooth things out with the other team instead their all down for a throwdown and causing massive property damage which is one of the reasons the team is coming under scrutiny along with the lives lost due to their actions.
4: Tony's address is well known he's a major celebrity who ha been known to throw huge parties and bed journalist in said home, so it's not like he's disclosing some big secret, also Pepper runs his company and as we know/have been shown people in the company monitor what Tony says because his actions reflect the company and their stock prices, so as the one running the company any rational person should be able to assume Pepper would be told Tony just called out the Mandarin, also Tony had a plan if attacked either he'd don the suit to protect her or he'd put her in the suit as he did to protect her, that's even if she turned up which given she should have got a report about his antics her turning up is on her.
4*still*: Also why is this meant to be logical? this is something Tony does in anger after one of his best friends almost got killed by the Mandarin, it's emotional not logical yah lunatic.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jan 17, 2018 3:38:04 GMT
How is Scott Lang saying he wants his daughter to be proud of her ex-con dad and then going to Germany to aid and abet a double-murderer to escape from the law and getting his ass thrown in jail logical?
How is Clint Barton putting his girlfriend and 2 young children at risk by taking the Avengers (who are being hunted by Ultron) to hide at his home, where his girlfriend and 2 young children live logical?
How is Clint Barton abandoning his 2 young children to go to Germany to aid and abet a double-murderer to escape from the law and getting his ass thrown in jail logical?
How is Tony Stark announcing his home address on TV to the whole world and then not warning his girlfriend (who has no superpowers to defend herself) to stay away from the house for awhile so she doesn't get in the line of fire when the bad guys attack his house logical?
Well in order 1: Scott's trying to make his daughter proud, sometimes whats right isn't the obvious thing, though I think it's a case like everyone else on Team Cap in CW of them deciding the like Cap so they go along with him despite his side of the "civil war" having no real point or meaning to it beyond Cap's own personal interest, but for a guy like Scott who probably grew up idolising Cap he thinks Cap is the embodiment of good so he just assumes Cap has the moral high ground in the fight hence him siding with him Whether or not he thinks Cap has the moral high ground is irrelevant. He was in jail and is now out. He wants his young daughter to be proud of him. So he breaks the law and gets his ass thrown in jail again? How is that going to make his young daughter proud of him? From his daughter's point of view, he broke the law and went to jail before and got out and now he's broken the law again and is back in jail. 2: That's Clint's wife not his girlfriend, Ultron didn't know where the Barton residence was, only Fury and Widow knew of it's location outside the family so Ultron couldn't find them and it was the only secure location they could go to, it's no more dangerous than any other time Barton a well known and decorated former Shield agent and Avenger & would go home.
Wife or girlfriend, he still put her and the 2 young children at risk by bringing the Avengers to his home. They thought Ultron couldn't find them. But why take that chance and put the wife and children at risk? 3: Similar to Lang but with the added weight of Cap & Barton being friends though what is illogical is the fact he nor Falco Falcon or Wanda actually consider trying to smooth things out with the other team instead their all down for a throwdown and causing massive property damage which is one of the reasons the team is coming under scrutiny along with the lives lost due to their actions.
And similar to Lang, whether or not he thinks Cap has the moral high ground is irrelevant. If he breaks the law and gets his ass thrown in jail, that leaves his wife to have to be the sole provider and caretaker for the 2 young children. It never occurred to Clint Barton to say "Hey, Steve, you know I'm your friend, but I have a wife and 2 young children to provide for and I can't get thrown in jail and leave them without a provider. My family is the most important thing in the world to me."? 4: Tony's address is well known he's a major celebrity who ha been known to throw huge parties and bed journalist in said home, so it's not like he's disclosing some big secret Yet he didn't even bother to warn Pepper to stay away from the house for awhile so that she doesn't get in the line of fire when the bad guys attack his house. Did Tony not give a shit about Pepper?
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Post by dazz on Jan 17, 2018 15:28:36 GMT
Well in order 1: Scott's trying to make his daughter proud, sometimes whats right isn't the obvious thing, though I think it's a case like everyone else on Team Cap in CW of them deciding the like Cap so they go along with him despite his side of the "civil war" having no real point or meaning to it beyond Cap's own personal interest, but for a guy like Scott who probably grew up idolising Cap he thinks Cap is the embodiment of good so he just assumes Cap has the moral high ground in the fight hence him siding with him Whether or not he thinks Cap has the moral high ground is irrelevant. He was in jail and is now out. He wants his young daughter to be proud of him. So he breaks the law and gets his ass thrown in jail again? How is that going to make his young daughter proud of him? From his daughter's point of view, he broke the law and went to jail before and got out and now he's broken the law again and is back in jail. 2: That's Clint's wife not his girlfriend, Ultron didn't know where the Barton residence was, only Fury and Widow knew of it's location outside the family so Ultron couldn't find them and it was the only secure location they could go to, it's no more dangerous than any other time Barton a well known and decorated former Shield agent and Avenger & would go home.
Wife or girlfriend, he still put her and the 2 young children at risk by bringing the Avengers to his home. They thought Ultron couldn't find them. But why take that chance and put the wife and children at risk? 3: Similar to Lang but with the added weight of Cap & Barton being friends though what is illogical is the fact he nor Falco Falcon or Wanda actually consider trying to smooth things out with the other team instead their all down for a throwdown and causing massive property damage which is one of the reasons the team is coming under scrutiny along with the lives lost due to their actions.
And similar to Lang, whether or not he thinks Cap has the moral high ground is irrelevant. If he breaks the law and gets his ass thrown in jail, that leaves his wife to have to be the sole provider and caretaker for the 2 young children. It never occurred to Clint Barton to say "Hey, Steve, you know I'm your friend, but I have a wife and 2 young children to provide for and I can't get thrown in jail and leave them without a provider. My family is the most important thing in the world to me."? 4: Tony's address is well known he's a major celebrity who ha been known to throw huge parties and bed journalist in said home, so it's not like he's disclosing some big secret Yet he didn't even bother to warn Pepper to stay away from the house for awhile so that she doesn't get in the line of fire when the bad guys attack his house. Did Tony not give a shit about Pepper? Well again 1: Scott likely believes Cap is unquestionably right, he doesn't judge his actions by the law but by his conscience, he's not backed, granted or endorsed in any way by any government official, department or law enforcement or law itself in being Ant-Man he's a vigilante but he does it for a good cause, which his daughter knows about and is proud of him for it, likely thinking would be siding with Cap will short term put him on the outs with the law but Cap will be proven right and his actions ultimately sanctioned, again it's not a legal thingb ut a moral one and his daughter has shown she doesn't care about the legality she loves her father and is proud of him doing what he thinks is right.
2: Going there doesn't put them at risk because Ultron if he knew about it could attack it regardless to gain leverage over the team, and if he didn't the only way to fid it would be to track them there, but if he were tracking them he'd of attacked mid flight as why would he allow them to potentially reach a stash house where they could regroup and rearm? it's not like he'd be holding off to take out their entire team as Fury, Hill hell even Coulson and the like are insignificant compared to the Avengers, so going there didn't create any bigger risk, and in actuality meant the team was on sight incase Ultron could discover it's location buried in some file and then try to kidnap the family to lure out the team ill prepared.
3: Again it's similar to Scott's thinking, Clint likely thinks ultimately Cap will be seen as the hero and everything made ok, and it's less a risk than any of Clint's other Shield or Avenger missions as for once the chance of being killed is minimal, but anytime he went on assignment for Shield death or capture was a possibility, it's a risk he and his family have long since learned to live with.
4: Yep just ignore the whole other part to #4 where I explained how Tony logically didn't need to warn Pepper personally, and that he did in fact have a plan to protect her as shown in the film well done you knuckle dragging doofus.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jan 18, 2018 2:38:37 GMT
Well again 1: Scott likely believes Cap is unquestionably right, he doesn't judge his actions by the law but by his conscience, he's not backed, granted or endorsed in any way by any government official, department or law enforcement or law itself in being Ant-Man he's a vigilante but he does it for a good cause, which his daughter knows about and is proud of him for it No, his daughter wouldn't know and wouldn't be proud of him. She's just a young child. Children are taught that people go to jail for doing bad things and nobody ever says to a child that someone went to jail because they did a good thing. From his daughter's point-of-view, Daddy went to jail before because he did a bad, bad thing and now he's out of jail. So then he goes to Germany, breaks the law, and gets his ass thrown in jail again. All his daughter is going to think is that Daddy did another bad, bad thing. 3: it's less a risk than any of Clint's other Shield or Avenger missions as for once the chance of being killed is minimal, but anytime he went on assignment for Shield death or capture was a possibility, it's a risk he and his family have long since learned to live with. The difference is that if Clint was killed on 1 of those missions, his family can collect the life insurance money and they can still be provided for. Getting his ass thrown in jail, the insurance isn't paying anything so his wife has to be the sole provider and caretaker for the children.
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Post by formersamhmd on Jan 18, 2018 2:55:10 GMT
No, his daughter wouldn't know and wouldn't be proud of him. Says you. She certainly doesn't think Scott was a bad guy, and when her mom's Police boyfriend says he's a good guy too she'll believe it. If a policeman thinks so then it must be true! You think the Bartons' wouldn't have some secret stash of cash left to look after them if anything happened to Clint that insurance companies wouldn't pay off on? You're in IT, use your brain.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jan 18, 2018 3:03:38 GMT
You think the Bartons' wouldn't have some secret stash of cash left to look after them if anything happened to Clint that insurance companies wouldn't pay off on? Ah yes, Tony Stark did say that the Avengers don't take any jobs that are below their pay grade. So the Avengers only help the rich and wealthy, and the Avengers are probably paid very well for their services by their rich and wealthy clients.
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Post by scabab on Jan 18, 2018 3:15:59 GMT
You think the Bartons' wouldn't have some secret stash of cash left to look after them if anything happened to Clint that insurance companies wouldn't pay off on? Ah yes, Tony Stark did say that the Avengers don't take any jobs that are below their pay grade. So the Avengers only help the rich and wealthy, and the Avengers are probably paid very well for their services by their rich and wealthy clients. You're taking that too literally. What he meant is that The Avengers deal with global threats. Like Loki, Ultron, Hydra and Thanos. They're not about stopping purse snatchers and local arms dealers. You wouldn't have the Justice League all set out to stop Penguin or Killer Croc for example. They'd team up to stop Brainiac or Darkseid.
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Post by dazz on Jan 18, 2018 3:51:26 GMT
Well again 1: Scott likely believes Cap is unquestionably right, he doesn't judge his actions by the law but by his conscience, he's not backed, granted or endorsed in any way by any government official, department or law enforcement or law itself in being Ant-Man he's a vigilante but he does it for a good cause, which his daughter knows about and is proud of him for it No, his daughter wouldn't know and wouldn't be proud of him. She's just a young child. Children are taught that people go to jail for doing bad things and nobody ever says to a child that someone went to jail because they did a good thing. From his daughter's point-of-view, Daddy went to jail before because he did a bad, bad thing and now he's out of jail. So then he goes to Germany, breaks the law, and gets his ass thrown in jail again. All his daughter is going to think is that Daddy did another bad, bad thing. 3: it's less a risk than any of Clint's other Shield or Avenger missions as for once the chance of being killed is minimal, but anytime he went on assignment for Shield death or capture was a possibility, it's a risk he and his family have long since learned to live with. The difference is that if Clint was killed on 1 of those missions, his family can collect the life insurance money and they can still be provided for. Getting his ass thrown in jail, the insurance isn't paying anything so his wife has to be the sole provider and caretaker for the children. Yes she does know, she knows he is Ant Man and she loves him for it, she doesn't even care when her step-dad is trying to catch Scott, she outright tells step-dad she hopes he cant catch her dad, and maybe she would as an adult hate her father for becoming a criminal again IF all she looked at is he got sent back to prison, but if she saw why she would likely understand why, and that ignores the fact that he's going to likely get cleared of his fugitive label as will the rest of them, your being purposely dense and annoying pack it in you troll.
As for Barton he is a long time spy who was one of his bosses top guys, a boss who does infact like and respect him, Clint would have cash stashed away just incase they had to go on the run and start a new life, Fury is still out there and likely would look out for them, even Tony would likely be keeping an eye out for them seeing how making sure they are financially ok is a drop in the bucket to him and Clint is infact a friend, your propose a worst case scenario but that worst case scenario does not exist in this situation, also worst case scenario going his wife can simply tell her story, single mother of Hawkeye from the Avengers left to fend for herself and their two kids, she'd easily make enough money for college for the kids, and it's not like the house would get repossessed.
Even on the run do you think Barton isn't capable of sending money to his family? please he's an elite top secret agent with the worlds top spy agency, doing that is nothing, and again Clint probably figured Cap was in the right and when they caught Zemo and stopped a army of Winter soldiers being unleashed Cap and the rest of them would be pardoned because they disobeyed faulty orders and prevented the biggest threat since Ultron, that's actually part of Zemo's plan that works, he set them up to come after him thinking they were stopping a global threat, but they weren't, and they all know it, every breach of protocol every broken law was done for nothing, their was no victory to be had, but they didn't know it.
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