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Post by kijii on Jan 17, 2018 21:22:09 GMT
Which version do you like better and why? Which one was more historically accurate?
I am trying to re-watch them both today to see how I respond--again. I'ts a snowy day and a good time for comparisons..
I have visited Tombstone, AZ several times while living in Tucson. One can make the trip on the same day as the historical setting for Broken Arrow (1950)---Chiricahua National Monument, AZ.
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Post by mattgarth on Jan 17, 2018 21:37:42 GMT
Accurate? Neither one!
Enjoyable? Both, slight edge to Ford's version.
Douglas as 'Doc' more fun than Mature. ("Sell my horse -- and get a good price.")
John Ireland in both versions -- 'Billy Clanton' first, then as 'Johnny Ringo.'
Ford's usual bullying tactics during filming so turned off Walter Brennan (playing 'Papa Clanton') that the actor vowed never to work with the director ever again.
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Post by OldAussie on Jan 18, 2018 0:04:56 GMT
Wyatt Earp movies -
1 Tombstone (1993) - possibly the most accurate too 2 My Darling Clementine (1946) 3 Hour of the Gun (1967) 4 'Doc' (1971) 5 Gunfight at the O.K. Corral (1957) 6 Wyatt Earp (1994)
Not counting where Earp is a minor character e.g.
Cheyenne Autumn Winchester '73
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Post by bravomailer on Jan 18, 2018 0:17:09 GMT
I prefer My Darling Clementine for its austere feel. Gunfight at the OK Corall is a fine western though.
I see that Brian Hutton, who later became a director (Where Eagles Dare, Kelly's Heroes), had an acting part in Gunfight at the OK Corall, as did Earl Holliman who's still with us.
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Post by politicidal on Jan 18, 2018 0:19:03 GMT
I've seen only pieces of the former and I wasn't too impressed by the latter. Tombstone (1993) beats both imo. I miss this type of western they used to make like Tombstone and Young Guns where like it's fairly accurate and a tad darker than the classic Hollywood western but it's still fun. More often than not you get something such as Hostiles which don't get me wrong, looks great. But they're all trying to be the next Unforgiven-which I didn't really enjoy and I love Clint Eastwood.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Jan 18, 2018 1:00:35 GMT
OK Corral is more fun PLUS it does not have Victor Mature in it .. for me that is always a good thing. Lancaster and Douglas a winning pair when ever they get together. kijii an Arizona detour Have also been to Fort Bowie in the Chirichuas ...agree that they are great places. Walking in the footsteps of Cochise and Tom Jeffords known from Broken Arrow.... shiver ! In Tombstone ... visited the Bird Cage Theater but bypassed the Corral itself. The cemetary was fascinating but restored a tad too much. Camped near the Old Tucson Studios but did not visit... next time !
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Post by kijii on Jan 18, 2018 1:58:01 GMT
The Ford version is, of course, a classic in it's own right.
But, for the story and possible accuracy, I much preferred the Sturges version. I loved the character development in the Sturges version, which showed real 3-dimentional humans beings with human feelings. It seemed as though there was even some connection between even the Earps and the Clantons.
In the Ford version--which was probably not even supposed to represent what really happened--Walter Brennan was the only Clanton who represented all the Clantons. It seemed that even Ike (Grant Withers) was an afterthought.
But, there was no "Old Man Clanton" in the Sturges version--just brothers who had both good and bad qualities. I liked this more fully human presentation. For example, Billy Clanton (a young Dennis Hopper) only very reluctantly sided with this brothers. And, then, there was an older Clanton brother who really didn't want to fight at all and ran out... I also noted a clear love and affection between the Earp brothers. Witness how truly broken up Wyatt Earp (Burt Lancaster) was when his younger brother, Jimmy (Martin Milner) did the "his rounds" for him and was shoot by the Clanton's by mistake, thinking they were shooting Wyatt to get rid of him.
Doc Holliday (Kirk Douglas) was also very good. And, what would this story have been without a needful and possessive Kate Fisher (Jo Van Fleet): Doc used Kate and Kate used Doc throughout the movie.
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Post by kijii on Jan 18, 2018 16:21:21 GMT
After looking through comments, I have a few questions: 1. Was there a Jimmy Earp--If so, how did he die and when? 2. What about the Rhonda Fleming character, Laura Denbow. Was she real or just added to Gunfight at the O.K. Corral (1957). 3. Was Bat Masterson really there--He shows up in the cast list for Gunfight at the O.K. Corral (1957).
Bat Masterson was a TV show in the 50 TV. It starred Gene Barry.
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Post by mattgarth on Jan 18, 2018 16:26:15 GMT
After looking through comments, I have a few questions: 1. Was there a Jimmy Earp--If so, how did he die and when? 2. What about the Rhonda Fleming character, Laura Denbow. Was she real or just added to Gunfight at the O.K. Corral (1957). 3. Was Bat Masterson really there--He shows up in the cast list for Gunfight at the O.K. Corral (1957). Bat Masterson was a TV show in the 50 TV. It starred Gene Barry. 1. Brother James died of old age (84) in 1926. He wasn't involved in the shootout. 2. Totally fictional 3. Bat worked with Wyatt in Dodge City -- as depicted in both GUNFIGHT and the Costner film. He wasn't in Tombstone at the time -- neither in real life nor in either film.
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Post by mattgarth on Jan 18, 2018 16:30:26 GMT
Of all the many movie depictions of that famous stroll down dusty streets toward the OK Corral on October 26, 1881, performers seemed to look like they already knew that they would be walking forever into the pages of history ... except one.
In TOMBSTONE, Sam Elliott as 'Virgil Earp' really seemed to be in the moment. His pissed-off countenance seem to say -- "I'm gonna blow them freakin' Clantons and McLaureys to kingdom come!"
The Look:
and the end credits:
[www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Yh7Cdm2GgY
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Post by BATouttaheck on Jan 18, 2018 17:01:06 GMT
more on those Earps
Warren Earp is buried in Willcox Arizona .. Warren Earp, the only Earp brother buried in Arizona, died in Willcox. Though he was nowhere near the famous Gunfight at the O.K. Corral, he later gained a reputation as a quarrelsome sort. He participated in Wyatt’s “vendetta ride,” a posse in search of the outlaw Cowboys.
Willcox Arizona is more famous as the birthplace of Rex Allen, known as "The Arizona Cowboy", who wrote and recorded many songs, starred in several Westerns during the early 1950s and in the syndicated television series Frontier Doctor (1958–1959). Willcox was among the locations of 26 Men (1957–1959), another syndicated series that depicted true stories of the Arizona Rangers starring Tristram Coffin and Kelo Henderson.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Jan 18, 2018 17:27:52 GMT
Both are true classics and great movies. Neither is very accurate historically. Tombstone is better and more accurate than both.
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Post by kijii on Jan 18, 2018 17:36:58 GMT
After looking through comments, I have a few questions: 1. Was there a Jimmy Earp--If so, how did he die and when? 2. What about the Rhonda Fleming character, Laura Denbow. Was she real or just added to Gunfight at the O.K. Corral (1957). 3. Was Bat Masterson really there--He shows up in the cast list for Gunfight at the O.K. Corral (1957). Bat Masterson was a TV show in the 50 TV. It starred Gene Barry. 1. Brother James died of old age (84) in 1926. He wasn't involved in the shootout. 2. Totally fictional 3. Bat worked with Wyatt in Dodge City -- as depicted in both GUNFIGHT and the Costner film. He wasn't in Tombstone at the time -- neither in real life nor in either film.I liked Gunfight at the O.K. Corral (1957) much better. In that movie, the relationship between Wyatt Earp and Doc Holliday sort of evolved--both liked the cut of the other's gib. I see no building relationship between the two in My Darling..
In Gunfight, we seem to get more of Doc Holliday's background (true or not). He came from a Georgia Plantation and was educated--with the help of his family--as a dentist (not a physician as in My Darling..). He seemed to have lost everything in the Civil War (yet never served himself). After developing his cough, he became a gambler and a killer (with both knives and guns). In fact, Wyatt Earp called him "a killer" but allow him to stay in Tombstone if he would not kill anyone in a bar with a gun or a knife. The whole Earp family seemed to be lawmen--not cattlemen as shown in My Darling..) Part of the movie, Gunfight seemed to occur in Tombstone, AZ and part in Dodge City, KS which was hard for me to follow since they are hundreds of mile apart. If I remember correctly, Dr. Holliday died in Tombstone during the gunfight in My Darling.., but I remember seeing Jason Robars, Jr. (as Dr. Holliday) dying as an older man in another movie. In Gunfight, the Clantons and the Earps seemed to be on a talking basis. In fact, the only thing I can see to cause the shootout was the fact that the Clantons were cattle rustlers. The gunfight seemed to over the Earp's federal orders (after he became a federal marshal) to the Clantons to get rid of the stolen cattle (take them south of the Mexican boarder). Ike Clanton could have none of this. (According to the wiki article below, the Claton gang represented "a loosely organized group of outlaws called the Cowboys" while "All three Earp brothers had been the target of repeated death threats made by the Cowboys, who objected to the Earps' interference in their illegal activities." The Clanton's set up a situation that made the fight "personal"...beyond being just a law enforcement issue. This story has been changed so many time that almost everything is open to interpretation. But, at its heart, maybe it represents a symbolic battle Lawmen versus O utlaws in the old West. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunfight_at_the_O.K._Corral"The shootout has come to represent a period of the American Old West when the frontier was virtually an open range for outlaws, largely unopposed by law enforcement officers who were spread thin over vast territories." How many Western movies have used this theme as a model? Name a few.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Jan 18, 2018 17:42:41 GMT
Hollywood (and movie makers in general) very often take names of real people, places, real events (or parts thereof).... put them in a sack, shake vigorously. make a movie of what falls out and call it a "historical, biographical film." Some are more accurate than others and many are much more interesting than the real events.
Didn't the real shootout take less than a minute ?
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Post by kijii on Jan 18, 2018 18:19:14 GMT
P.S. I also like old western movies and TV shows in which Frankie Lane sang the theme song. Gunfight at the O.K. Corral (1957) was one of those movies. www.imdb.com/name/nm0481840/?ref_=nv_sr_1#soundtrackBlowing Wild (1953) Man Without a Star (1955) Gunfight at the O.K. Corral (1957) 3:10 to Yuma (1957) Rawhide (TV series)
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Post by teleadm on Jan 18, 2018 19:34:26 GMT
As pure entertainment based on facts, I think I prefer Gunfight at the O.K. Corral 1957. I remember a travelogue documentary many years ago where they visited the real O.K. Corral (or a replica), and the travelogue host looked at it in huge dissappointment and said "that's it!!!!!, that's all? , that's it? ", as it didn't look like anything special, yet legends are built on it.
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Post by kijii on Jan 19, 2018 2:03:42 GMT
teleadm-- As I've said before, I use to live in Tucson and we often took visitors to Tombstone, southeast of Tucson. It is hard to imagine that it was ever much of a town, but it's all there, with Boothill and everything. A place near there is far more scenic, Chiricahua National Monument, where Cochise once led his tribe of Apaches. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiricahua_National_Monument
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Post by telegonus on Jan 19, 2018 12:04:50 GMT
Which version do you like better and why? Which one was more historically accurate? I am trying to re-watch them both today to see how I respond--again. I'ts a snowy day and a good time for comparisons.. I have visited Tombstone, AZ several times while living in Tucson. One can make the trip on the same day as the historical setting for Broken Arrow (1950)---Chiricahua National Monument, AZ. My Darling Clementine has qualities but somehow it's never pulled me in. The leading players are good but the supporting ones seem to add more zest to the proceedings (Walter Brennan, Ward Bond). John Ford is a favorite director of mine but sometimes he could overdo it. Clementine is just too pictorial for me. Gunfight At the OK Corral is a lighter weight film, doesn't aim so high artistically, and it does draw me in, right from the start. The stirring music, with the title song sung by Frankie Laine over (or is it behind?) the opening credits gets it off to a slam bang start; while star players hold the screen, with Kirk Douglas in particular quite strong. Fine cast overall. John Sturges made the whole thing feel larger than life, and that's how the movie plays for me. Without it,--and it was a huge hit--there probably wouldn't have been The Magnificent Seven, also directed by Sturges; and without these two, no Sergio Leone spaghetti westerns. Gunfight At The OK Corral matters.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Jan 19, 2018 14:50:56 GMT
BTW - Does anyone remember "I Married Wyatt Earp" (1983). It was a made for TV movie with Marie Osmond and Bruce Boxleitner. As I recall it was pretty good and relatively accurate historically.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Jan 20, 2018 5:12:24 GMT
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