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Post by Isapop on Jan 20, 2018 0:02:26 GMT
Inspired by a current thread.
I find out that a sneaky fellow named Vargas is attempting to seduce my wife, who, so far, has been faithful to me. Vargas is very attractive, and he promises my wife many tempting things. And what's more, he's telling her lies about me in order to more easily lure her away. I tell Vargas that if he persists, it will be very dangerous for the both of them. But Vargas is undeterred. In response, I do the following. I sneak into Vargas' bedroom with a gun, and hide under the bed. Vargas enters with my wife. And when they both get into the bed, I emerge from underneath and promptly shoot my wife in the head.
In this parable, who is the villain? Is there more than one villain?
Edit: Here's one other plot point which might matter in your opinion: Vargas is in the country illegally, and I could simply have him deported, and thus remove his influence from my wife any time I want to. But I choose to let him continue to seduce my wife. And the consequences follow.
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Post by Vegas on Jan 20, 2018 1:08:46 GMT
Inspired by a current thread.
I find out that a sneaky fellow named Vargas is attempting to seduce my wife, who, so far, has been faithful to me. Vargas is very attractive, and he promises my wife many tempting things. And what's more, he's telling her lies about me in order to more easily lure her away. I tell Vargas that if he persists, it will be very dangerous for the both of them. But Vargas is undeterred. In response, I do the following. I sneak into Vargas' bedroom with a gun, and hide under the bed. Vargas enters with my wife. And when they both get into the bed, I emerge from underneath and promptly shoot my wife in the head.
In this parable, who is the villain? Is there more than one villain? Vargas.Also.. Was your wife warned that the punishment for unfaithfulness was getting shot in the head? And, in this universe that you created, is it understood that you have that legitimate right to shoot her in the head? What? You see yourself as the villain because some dude banged your wife who chose to be unfaithful to you? EPIC FAIL.
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Post by Isapop on Jan 20, 2018 1:48:18 GMT
Inspired by a current thread.
I find out that a sneaky fellow named Vargas is attempting to seduce my wife, who, so far, has been faithful to me. Vargas is very attractive, and he promises my wife many tempting things. And what's more, he's telling her lies about me in order to more easily lure her away. I tell Vargas that if he persists, it will be very dangerous for the both of them. But Vargas is undeterred. In response, I do the following. I sneak into Vargas' bedroom with a gun, and hide under the bed. Vargas enters with my wife. And when they both get into the bed, I emerge from underneath and promptly shoot my wife in the head.
In this parable, who is the villain? Is there more than one villain? OK, let's say I warned her. Am I really absolved from being a villain because I warned her?That's begging the question. Whether I am or am not a villain might require examining whether the assumption that I have such a right is correct to start with. And then, even having the right to commit an act does not mean that the act cannot also be villainous.Obviously any villainy on my part is because I shot her. (Vargas shares in the villainy for seducing her.)I've demonstrated to the contrary. I thought you'd appreciate the tribute.
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Post by Catman on Jan 20, 2018 1:49:29 GMT
Catman blames lagomorphs.
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Post by Vegas on Jan 20, 2018 2:28:39 GMT
I thought you'd appreciate the tribute.I do. No... No, you haven't. Not if you live in a universe where it is you are allowed to shoot an unfaithful wife. (We're dealing in hypotheticals where you represent a God that has the right, as creator of all life, to punish His creation... even with taking back said life) Seriously, is any one who metes out punishment to those who break the law in your mind a villain for doing so?
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Post by thorshairspray on Jan 20, 2018 2:33:53 GMT
Inspired by a current thread.
I find out that a sneaky fellow named Vargas is attempting to seduce my wife, who, so far, has been faithful to me. Vargas is very attractive, and he promises my wife many tempting things. And what's more, he's telling her lies about me in order to more easily lure her away. I tell Vargas that if he persists, it will be very dangerous for the both of them. But Vargas is undeterred. In response, I do the following. I sneak into Vargas' bedroom with a gun, and hide under the bed. Vargas enters with my wife. And when they both get into the bed, I emerge from underneath and promptly shoot my wife in the head.
In this parable, who is the villain? Is there more than one villain? You. You broke two laws. They didn't break any.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2018 2:39:09 GMT
Inspired by a current thread.
I find out that a sneaky fellow named Vargas is attempting to seduce my wife, who, so far, has been faithful to me. Vargas is very attractive, and he promises my wife many tempting things. And what's more, he's telling her lies about me in order to more easily lure her away. I tell Vargas that if he persists, it will be very dangerous for the both of them. But Vargas is undeterred. In response, I do the following. I sneak into Vargas' bedroom with a gun, and hide under the bed. Vargas enters with my wife. And when they both get into the bed, I emerge from underneath and promptly shoot my wife in the head.
In this parable, who is the villain? Is there more than one villain? Everyone involved. Your wife because she's cheating on you. Vargas because he's lying about you. You because you murdered your wife. Your villany hugely, massively outweighs the other two, by the way. Like, by about eight orders of magnitude.
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Post by goz on Jan 20, 2018 2:59:18 GMT
Inspired by a current thread.
I find out that a sneaky fellow named Vargas is attempting to seduce my wife, who, so far, has been faithful to me. Vargas is very attractive, and he promises my wife many tempting things. And what's more, he's telling her lies about me in order to more easily lure her away. I tell Vargas that if he persists, it will be very dangerous for the both of them. But Vargas is undeterred. In response, I do the following. I sneak into Vargas' bedroom with a gun, and hide under the bed. Vargas enters with my wife. And when they both get into the bed, I emerge from underneath and promptly shoot my wife in the head.
In this parable, who is the villain? Is there more than one villain? Everyone involved. Your wife because she's cheating on you. Vargas because he's lying about you. You because you murdered your wife. Your villany hugely, massively outweighs the other two, by the way. Like, by about eight orders of magnitude. Define 'cheating' by the wife. She has neither been warned only lied to, and has not cheated yet. it is not known whether Vargas passed on the threat of cheating being dangerous to them both. So, in my opinion the wife may be stupid and gullible butt innocent of the crime for which she lost her life to a seducer and liar, and a jealous murderer.
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Post by Isapop on Jan 20, 2018 3:02:14 GMT
I thought you'd appreciate the tribute.I do. No... No, you haven't. Even assuming God has the right doesn't mean there can't be villainy. I might have the right to evict someone if they are behind in the rent instead of giving them an extension. But evicting him might still be a villainous thing to do.Not if the punishment fits the crime. But I would assign villainy to someone who pronounces a punishment of death for the "crime" of being deceived by another villain into being in the wrong religion.
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Post by Vegas on Jan 20, 2018 3:05:14 GMT
You. You broke two laws. They didn't break any. This is one problem with this parable. Everyone in the story is an equal... representing a God who isn't considered our equal. Another problem: Using a punishment that isn't really the norm for said crime. Let's say that it two different country's and the wife (a super spy that is the pride of the USA) is a person who was seduced into committing treason... a crime that has always been to be considered punishable by death... Let's say that she was seduced into helping 9/11... and was caught. Is the USA a villain for executing her?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2018 3:11:28 GMT
Everyone involved. Your wife because she's cheating on you. Vargas because he's lying about you. You because you murdered your wife. Your villany hugely, massively outweighs the other two, by the way. Like, by about eight orders of magnitude. Define 'cheating' by the wife. I'm presuming that this is a regular marriage, i.e. one in which both parties swear that they won't commit adultery. Which the wife has done. If she's walking into another man's bedroom, then yes, she's cheating. You're cheating as soon as you do something that you wouldn't do if your spouse was watching you. The threat is irrelevant to the situation, IMO. Issuing a threat doesn't alter the morality of anybody's actions. I'd say that the wife is the least guilty of the three, but she IS guilty of cheating in my opinion.
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Post by goz on Jan 20, 2018 3:18:35 GMT
Define 'cheating' by the wife. I'm presuming that this is a regular marriage, i.e. one in which both parties swear that they won't commit adultery. Which the wife has done. If she's walking into another man's bedroom, then yes, she's cheating. You're cheating as soon as you do something that you wouldn't do if your spouse was watching you. The threat is irrelevant to the situation, IMO. Issuing a threat doesn't alter the morality of anybody's actions. I'd say that the wife is the least guilty of the three, but she IS guilty of cheating in my opinion. She hasn't slept with him yet and is only there under false pretences/lies by another party.
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Post by Vegas on Jan 20, 2018 3:21:12 GMT
Good... Cause that only exists in your head. .......................................................................... ...and maybe in some overzealous self-righteous Christians who don't really read their own book.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2018 3:25:37 GMT
I'm presuming that this is a regular marriage, i.e. one in which both parties swear that they won't commit adultery. Which the wife has done. If she's walking into another man's bedroom, then yes, she's cheating. You're cheating as soon as you do something that you wouldn't do if your spouse was watching you. The threat is irrelevant to the situation, IMO. Issuing a threat doesn't alter the morality of anybody's actions. I'd say that the wife is the least guilty of the three, but she IS guilty of cheating in my opinion. She hasn't slept with him yet "You're cheating as soon as you do something that you wouldn't do if your spouse was watching you." I don't care if she's slept with him or not. Utterly irrelevant. There should be no combination of lies whatsoever that can induce a person to cheat, or attempt to cheat if you prefer, on their spouse. If a man tells you a string of lies, and you go to bed with him as a result, you are cheating and you are responsible for your cheating.
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Post by goz on Jan 20, 2018 3:48:15 GMT
She hasn't slept with him yet "You're cheating as soon as you do something that you wouldn't do if your spouse was watching you." I don't care if she's slept with him or not. Utterly irrelevant. There should be no combination of lies whatsoever that can induce a person to cheat, or attempt to cheat if you prefer, on their spouse. If a man tells you a string of lies, and you go to bed with him as a result, you are cheating and you are responsible for your cheating. She didn't go to bed with him. As a result of the lies she was in the same room as him and was shot by her husband. Had nature taken its course, she might well have said " Do you know what? I know you told me all these bad things about my husband and I just can't go through with this as I still love him"...and she walked. Did she cheat? was it worth her death on supposition?
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Post by Isapop on Jan 20, 2018 3:49:29 GMT
You. You broke two laws. They didn't break any. This is one problem with this parable. Everyone in the story is an equal... representing a God who isn't considered our equal. So now you're saying that an action judged villainous when done by a man is not villainous when done by a god because of that god's superiority. You're making God sound worse and worse as you go. Signing off, pleasant dreams.
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Post by goz on Jan 20, 2018 3:55:26 GMT
This is one problem with this parable. Everyone in the story is an equal... representing a God who isn't considered our equal. So now you're saying that an action judged villainous when done by a man is not villainous when done by a god because of that god's superiority. You're making God sound worse and worse as you go. Signing off, pleasant dreams.
Erm....sorry....must have missed something........where does God fit into this scenario? ...except maybe for the word 'parable' and its religious connotations. Apart from that what does God have to do with this?
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Post by Vegas on Jan 20, 2018 3:58:12 GMT
This is one problem with this parable. Everyone in the story is an equal... representing a God who isn't considered our equal. So now you're saying that an action judged villainous when done by a man is not villainous when done by a god because of that god's superiority. You're making God sound worse and worse as you go.
It probably has more to do with His role as "Creator Of The Entire Fucking Universe and All Life In It" than just being more superior... like he's just a kid that is picking on ants.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2018 12:08:23 GMT
"You're cheating as soon as you do something that you wouldn't do if your spouse was watching you." I don't care if she's slept with him or not. Utterly irrelevant. There should be no combination of lies whatsoever that can induce a person to cheat, or attempt to cheat if you prefer, on their spouse. If a man tells you a string of lies, and you go to bed with him as a result, you are cheating and you are responsible for your cheating. She didn't go to bed with him. Not in this particular case. But I don't know how many times I have to say that this doesn't matter. I'll say it once more : It doesn't matter. You are cheating the first time you do something that you wouldn't do if your partner/spouse was watching you do it. Yes. Of course not. That's exactly why I said the shooter in this scenario did something vastly more wrong than anybody else. If she had actually had sex with the guy... and then gone on to have sex with a thousand other guys... shooting her would still be hideously immoral.
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Post by Isapop on Jan 20, 2018 13:42:25 GMT
So now you're saying that an action judged villainous when done by a man is not villainous when done by a god because of that god's superiority. You're making God sound worse and worse as you go.
It probably has more to do with His role as "Creator Of The Entire Fucking Universe and All Life In It" than just being more superior... like he's just a kid that is picking on ants. OK, so you're defining God's "superiority" as unlimited power. And that's why God is therefore exempted from a possible charge of villainy? There's an old expression for that: "Might makes right". And for quite some time it's been roundly dismissed as an immoral formulation.
Btw, Vegas, I'm going to add one other circumstance to my parable. (I should have thought of it earlier because it fits the subject and has significance in judging everyone in it.) The husband (me) can eliminate Vargas from the scene if he choses to, but still let's Vargas go after his wife.
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