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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 3:48:20 GMT
Its awesome and perhaps this inclusion has widened the narrow horizons of the academy members. Although Ive not seen Call me by your name, I suspect it will win. Just glad that Logan has recieved some deserved recognition. Hey charzhino, you will not believe what I just read by the MCU fan boys. these boys don't realise they themselves continue to expose how much MCU sucks and will always be inferior to DC/X-Men/Spiderman in movies, comics, games and animations. Apparently Logan is more like a western than a super hero movie because superhero stories never had things like mental illness, deep surrogate father daughter relationship and mutants dealing with serious diseases like cancer? um, what?
Let's look at facts in X-Men comics
Xavier had a mental breakdown after onslaught to the point of dementia. (xmen #91). His son Legion followed suit in the comics. In fact Legion (TV) was so well uniquely received because it dealt with themes of mental illness and bipolar disorder. Legion called the greatest comic book show so far. Deadpool, Moria and Northstar survived cancers and aids like illness in the xmen comics (legacy virus) . Long lost daughters? Like Wolverine/X-23 already in the comics/cartoons or Cable/Hope in the xmen modern classic story of messiah complex and second coming or even Raven/Rogue as twisted as it is. Funny X-men comics have had a lot of these story lines MCU fans claim to be westerns and not comic books. Reason X-Men has the best marvel written literacy. Logan was just a reflection of that. No wonder mcu movies are garbage , its about jokes, toys and explosions. Nothing real. MCU fans never read any comic. That is now fact. Just one more reason xmen mcu is a disaster in the making, with this type of dumb thinking of denial and bs. I hope Steven Spielberg is right that the comic book genre will be dead by then with all the mcu saturated movies. Please let it just end with new mutants and xforce. I think you may be taking this rivalry between film companies a bit too seriously. |
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Post by summers8 on Jan 24, 2018 6:35:20 GMT
Hey charzhino, you will not believe what I just read by the MCU fan boys. these boys don't realise they themselves continue to expose how much MCU sucks and will always be inferior to DC/X-Men/Spiderman in movies, comics, games and animations. Apparently Logan is more like a western than a super hero movie because superhero stories never had things like mental illness, deep surrogate father daughter relationship and mutants dealing with serious diseases like cancer? um, what?
Let's look at facts in X-Men comics
Xavier had a mental breakdown after onslaught to the point of dementia. (xmen #91). His son Legion followed suit in the comics. In fact Legion (TV) was so well uniquely received because it dealt with themes of mental illness and bipolar disorder. Legion called the greatest comic book show so far. Deadpool, Moria and Northstar survived cancers and aids like illness in the xmen comics (legacy virus) . Long lost daughters? Like Wolverine/X-23 already in the comics/cartoons or Cable/Hope in the xmen modern classic story of messiah complex and second coming or even Raven/Rogue as twisted as it is. Funny X-men comics have had a lot of these story lines MCU fans claim to be westerns and not comic books. Reason X-Men has the best marvel written literacy. Logan was just a reflection of that. No wonder mcu movies are garbage , its about jokes, toys and explosions. Nothing real. MCU fans never read any comic. That is now fact. Just one more reason xmen mcu is a disaster in the making, with this type of dumb thinking of denial and bs. I hope Steven Spielberg is right that the comic book genre will be dead by then with all the mcu saturated movies. Please let it just end with new mutants and xforce. I think you may be taking this rivalry between film companies a bit too seriously. No. am not. Just stating the truth. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 6:38:03 GMT
I think you may be taking this rivalry between film companies a bit too seriously. No. am not. Just stating the truth. You're speaking an opinion. If you like the X-Men films better, that's fine, but I don't see how they're any better than the Disney-produced lineup. |
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Post by summers8 on Jan 24, 2018 6:42:30 GMT
Wow, so you folks care deeply about the Oscars. its telling but the nom says a lot. it says Logan was actually considered for best picture until they remembered it was a comic book movie and shut it out because the screenplays are the next big thing to best picture and best director and 99% of the time, whoever wins for screenplay wins for best picture. Wow, i'm surprised that you didn't blame the MCU for Logan's failure to get an BP nomination. Logan was never gonna get a best picture nom though very deserving as the screenplay award is proof, but its still a comic book movie and the oscar will never allow that. still, adapted screenplay was the second best thing after best picture. Logan got one step closer after tdk got a nom for supporting actor, now all we need is the martin scoresese joker movie to finish the job and get the best picture nom. meanwhile, the mcu xmen will be the laughing stock of town once mcu xmen goes full gotg but as I said, the genre may be dead by then. it almost died this year if not for the impact of logan and wonder woman. |
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Post by summers8 on Jan 24, 2018 6:44:11 GMT
No. am not. Just stating the truth. You're speaking an opinion. If you like the X-Men films better, that's fine, but I don't see how they're any better than the Disney-produced lineup. its not opinion, its fact. everything I said happened in the xmen comics lore. the movies tend to loosely adapt them but still keep the substance. |
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Post by summers8 on Jan 24, 2018 6:47:19 GMT
oh and um, why none of you should take the Oscars seriously. though you can talk fondly about them.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 6:49:06 GMT
You're speaking an opinion. If you like the X-Men films better, that's fine, but I don't see how they're any better than the Disney-produced lineup. its not opinion, its fact. everything I said happened in the xmen comics lore. the movies tend to loosely adapt them but still keep the substance. ...Eh. Not really. As far as films carrying anti-prejudice messages go, they're very basic, but easily consumable by their child and teenage demographic. That's not an insult directed at these films, just a fact. They're popcorn with a pretty standard message. |
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Post by charzhino on Jan 24, 2018 7:48:20 GMT
its not opinion, its fact. everything I said happened in the xmen comics lore. the movies tend to loosely adapt them but still keep the substance. ...Eh. Not really. As far as films carrying anti-prejudice messages go, they're very basic, but easily consumable by their child and teenage demographic. That's not an insult directed at these films, just a fact. They're popcorn with a pretty standard message. Well its all relative. Xmen films messages may not be profound when up against 12 Years A Slave but against MCU movies, which are straightforward popcorn movies, they are much more layered and deep. |
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Post by charzhino on Jan 24, 2018 11:55:49 GMT
They'd have destroyed the entire MCU to get Stark on his own and then kill him off and eliminate any future storytelling possibilities. IE, needlessly ruined a lot of hard work. No, killing Pepper would have been sufficient. Shes done nothing since IM3 so keeping her alive is pointless. Her dying would have made logical sense for the Arc they were trying to give Tony in that film, his obsession with keeping everyone safe costing him in the end. Kind of like Rachel Dawes dying in Dark Knight. Theres even great foreshawdowing in the early part where he says to Pepper, I must protect the 1 thing I cant live without, thats you. Instead we get another fake death during the CGI bonanza at the end and a silly scene where she now is an Extremis soldier arguably more powerful than IM which they ignore after the films over. Deny it all you want but killing off characters like Pepper and Rhodey adds stakes, emotion and drama that the MCU sorely lacks. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Jan 24, 2018 12:31:42 GMT
Wow, i'm surprised that you didn't blame the MCU for Logan's failure to get an BP nomination. meanwhile, the mcu xmen will be the laughing stock of town once mcu xmen goes full gotg Nah, they'll be as lauded as the actual GOTG films. Mainly for finally giving a viable alternative to the backwards approach Fox gave us for 18 years. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Jan 24, 2018 12:32:17 GMT
You're speaking an opinion. If you like the X-Men films better, that's fine, but I don't see how they're any better than the Disney-produced lineup. its not opinion, its fact. Nope, it's opinion. All that stuff you brought up came from other comics before X-Men. All X-Men did was copy other Marvel comic stories. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Jan 24, 2018 12:35:05 GMT
No, killing Pepper would have been sufficient. Shes done nothing since IM3 so keeping her alive is pointless.
Logan worked by annihilating the entire X-Verse except for X-23. You want an MCU version of Logan, you get that by destroying the entire MCU and all the hard work people put in to all the other characters independent of Iron Man. Nice Work.
Kill off a female love interest to motivate the hero. How wonderfully backwards and misogynistic.
Rachel was a walking plot device, nothing more. And Nolan has always been dismissive of women in his movies. All plot devices rather than characters. She and him had it undone because of how unstable we saw Extremis was, remember? So killing everyone is the only way to bring up stakes. That's why everyone loved Xavier getting killed in Last Stand. You don't kill everyone in chapter 5 of a 20 chapter story. |
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Post by charzhino on Jan 24, 2018 12:59:10 GMT
Kill off a female love interest to motivate the hero. How wonderfully backwards and misogynistic. Dont bring up the sexism card, in which case Stark wanting to protect helpless little Pepper is sexist in itself. But killing a character that has an important relationship with the hero to serve the plot is a great way to enhance the gravity of the story. Whether that be a male or female doesn't matter - and I suggested Rhodey in Civil War or IM3 too. She's no different to Pepper, Jean Grey or Jane Foster. Cop out. Killing minor characters in events which are supposed to be violent like Extremis terrorists and "civil wars" yeah I expect some people of note to die which changes heros character. If Pepper had died maybe Tony would have appreciated his duties a lot more instead of continuing to be reckless in the later films. I expect major characters to die in IW but knowing MCU, I wouldnt be surprised if all they kill off is Hawkeye and Agent 23. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Jan 24, 2018 13:05:43 GMT
Dont bring up the sexism card, in which case Stark wanting to protect helpless little Pepper is sexist in itself. So is Peter Parker wanting to protect May, but you'll never complain about that. If they killed Rhodey in Civil War, we'd have immediately sympathized more with Tony than Steve and the whole ambiguity of the conflict would be out the door. They slaughtered the Asgardians in Ragnarok, I don't see you saying that was good. Jane and Jean, no. But Pepper is more than Nolan's usual lot of living plot devices. So was killing off the X-Men off-screen. Like I said, the Asgardians. That's like asking Deadpool to stop swearing, making lewd comments and killing people. They aren't going to destroy the entire MCU for the sake of one character, if that's what you mean. |
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Post by charzhino on Jan 24, 2018 13:16:44 GMT
So is Peter Parker wanting to protect May, but you'll never complain about that. I wasnt complaining in the first place, you brought up the sexist card first. Rhodey being crippled after would still sway the sympathy towards Stark. And the Asgardians where faceless canon fodder like the Amazonians or Magnetos wife+kid. No emotional connection to the audience and is entirely diffrent to a character thats been forefront for at least 2 films to develop an attachment to - like Rachel Dawes, Pepper, Jean, Rhodey, Frigga, Hawkeye. They wouldnt because its not a film set in the far future like Logan. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Jan 24, 2018 13:23:25 GMT
I wasnt complaining in the first place, you brought up the sexist card first. Yeah, because you think it's still a good idea to kill off a perfectly good female love interest to motivate the hero. Not as much as killing him would have. Plus we see him actively fighting his disability rather than let it consume him. Funny, I remember X-Fanatics going on about how sad it was when Magneto's family died in Apocalypse or when Diana's Aunt died in WW. Nice Double Standard. And again, how many were happy when Xavier died in Last Stand? You want it to be like Logan, then it needs to kill everyone to be an "End of an Era" story like Logan was. Thereby ruining the rest of the MCU. A story like Logan wouldn't work if he wasn't the only major X-Man left for Xavier. |
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Post by sostie on Jan 24, 2018 13:29:42 GMT
You know now I think of it for silly oscar fun triva, this is the closest we have ever gotten to best picture for a comic film. I wonder what comic film(s) will take that last step to a best picture nomination. It'll be a while I think, but will be more likely to happen as genre films seem to get more accepted/appreciated by the academy. Disregarding all the petty complaints of what and why some films were nominated it's good to see that this year the highest nominated film is a Sci-Fi/Fantasy film, a horror/exploitation film has gained a number of major nominations and a CBM has got an adapted screenplay award. Plus nominations for GOTG2, Blade Runner, Apes and Star Wars. A good year for the genre film. And as the older generation of Academy members gradually disappears and the later generation that were brought up on the likes of Spielberg, Dante, Carpenter etc have their say, I think such films will be less frowned upon in the future. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Jan 24, 2018 13:38:09 GMT
You know now I think of it for silly oscar fun triva, this is the closest we have ever gotten to best picture for a comic film. I wonder what comic film(s) will take that last step to a best picture nomination. It'll be a while I think, but will be more likely to happen as genre films seem to get more accepted/appreciated by the academy. You know he's just going to say that the acceptance is due entirely to guys like Nolan and FoX-Men, right?
It's really more due to the MCU making CBMs more mainstream and accepted without having to be "grounded" and uncreative.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jan 24, 2018 21:56:36 GMT
I think it's more in that the movie is more a western than a superhero movie. Then you have him dying at the end like a lot of one off westerns. Taking care of a mentally ill old man. Oh and the "cancer" he kinda had. And the long lost daughter he falls for by the end. There is a lot of "Oscar bait" in the movie. The movie is good, but you can tick off the boxes on the check list. This reminds me of TDK's critical reception being met with "it's more of a crime movie than a superhero one". Thing is, superhero stories blending genres isn't really out of the ordinary. I'd almost argue that "superhero" isn't even a genre, just an element that can be used in one. Most superhero movies are action adventure, of course. Some are comedies. Some are sci-fi. Some are war. We're even getting coming of age and espionage superhero movies now. Anyway, what I'm saying is that Logan being a western drama doesn't take away from the fact that it's a superhero movie. The third act has an evil clone, ffs. Logan leans closer to something like Cowboys and Aliens. Or if you set The Magnificent Seven in modern times so they have cars instead of horses. I mean, if you didn't associate Logan with X-men, changed all their names and gave Logan another power, would you still see it as a superhero movie? I see it as a modern day western that happens to have people with super powers. Like a movie based on an anime where they blend genres and time periods (ex. Cowboy Bebop). Logan goes further beyond that line of genre flipping than The Dark Knight. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 23:06:27 GMT
This reminds me of TDK's critical reception being met with "it's more of a crime movie than a superhero one". Thing is, superhero stories blending genres isn't really out of the ordinary. I'd almost argue that "superhero" isn't even a genre, just an element that can be used in one. Most superhero movies are action adventure, of course. Some are comedies. Some are sci-fi. Some are war. We're even getting coming of age and espionage superhero movies now. Anyway, what I'm saying is that Logan being a western drama doesn't take away from the fact that it's a superhero movie. The third act has an evil clone, ffs. Logan leans closer to something like Cowboys and Aliens. Or if you set The Magnificent Seven in modern times so they have cars instead of horses. I mean, if you didn't associate Logan with X-men, changed all their names and gave Logan another power, would you still see it as a superhero movie? I see it as a modern day western that happens to have people with super powers. Like a movie based on an anime where they blend genres and time periods (ex. Cowboy Bebop). Logan goes further beyond that line of genre flipping than The Dark Knight. If I gave the superhero lead of this superhero movie a different superpower, would I still consider it a superhero movie? Yes. And asking me to hypothesize if the film weren't associated with X-Men is a lot, since the film continues themes and character arcs set up in the first eight movies and even references the comic book source material in literal form (which I don't think has even been done before). There is no mistaking this for a non-X-Men movie. |
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