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Post by Arlon10 on Jan 24, 2018 14:05:08 GMT
When using outside sources for your arguments and discussions on these boards you might hesitate to present material in your own words or hesitate to quote directly for fear of violating some copyright. A rather useful and safe rule where I went to school is the 3" x 5' index card rule. That was before personal digital assistants and smartphones. People used index cards instead. They are still made and you can still buy them in office supply stores. If the words you quote directly from a source fit on a 3" x 5" index card and you give the name of the source, then you have not violated any U.S. copyright (probably, usually). You are free to pursue the points involved in your own words. That is not written down in any statute, but it is the common interpretation of the statutory and case law on the whole.
Not only is it legal to present ideas in your own words it is preferable. If you can't put things in your own words there is little point in you chiming in anyway.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 24, 2018 15:11:34 GMT
I am not aware of any such 'common interpretation' vis-à-vis stationery sizes generally, but in the UK at least copyright law admits the notion of 'fair usage' which sometimes is represented as a percentage taken of the whole. But a short poem in copyright, or a formula say, could be written out on the sort of card you describe in their entireity and hence break the law. Naming the source is not essential either I don't think (though an omission would be odd, at least in most honest circumstances) except to avoid related suspicions of plagiarism.
But, then again, as you always say you don't 'do' definitions, then the legal one of copyright ought probably be a mystery to you anyway...
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Post by Arlon10 on Jan 24, 2018 16:43:25 GMT
I am not aware of any such 'common interpretation' vis-à-vis stationery sizes generally, but in the UK at least copyright law admits the notion of 'fair usage' which sometimes is represented as a percentage taken of the whole. But a short poem in copyright, or a formula say, could be written out on the sort of card you describe in their entireity and hence break the law. Naming the source is not essential either I don't think (though an omission would be odd, at least in most honest circumstances) except to avoid related suspicions of plagiarism. But, then again, as you always say you don't 'do' definitions, then the legal one of copyright ought probably be a mystery to you anyway... Yes, it can get very complicated on both sides of the Atlantic, thus "probably, usually." It is just a general "rule of thumb." In the United States, if not also the UK, formulas are not protected by copyright laws, rather trademark or perhaps patent laws. Those of course have different rules of thumb. What bothers me, not that I matter much, but I know what bothers me, are the people who just post links they obviously do not understand themselves. I need to see your own understanding of things if I'm going to pay any attention. Definitions are my stock and trade. |
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Post by Arlon10 on Jan 24, 2018 22:56:34 GMT
I am not aware of any such 'common interpretation' vis-à-vis stationery sizes generally, but in the UK at least copyright law admits the notion of 'fair usage' which sometimes is represented as a percentage taken of the whole. But a short poem in copyright, or a formula say, could be written out on the sort of card you describe in their entireity and hence break the law. Naming the source is not essential either I don't think (though an omission would be odd, at least in most honest circumstances) except to avoid related suspicions of plagiarism. But, then again, as you always say you don't 'do' definitions, then the legal one of copyright ought probably be a mystery to you anyway... But wait, there's more ... Something most people might never have noticed, when debaters directly quote anyone they hold the 3" x 5" card in front of them for several reasons. One, it ensures a correctly worded quote. Two, it shows they are reading something. Three, it shows that it might well be something already heard elsewhere by the audience (so don't be surprised). On professional news and news forum television programs in the United States whenever there is a direct quote, a text box is shown on screen with the words of the direct quote. That is similar to the 3" x 5" index card. In the UK, I'm guessing, politicians hold up a copy of the document from which they directly quote, if not some index card. The United States might be less disciplined, but ordinarily does the same thing. |
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Post by captainbryce on Jan 24, 2018 23:26:03 GMT
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Post by goz on Jan 25, 2018 1:31:45 GMT
When using outside sources for your arguments and discussions on these boards you might hesitate to present material in your own words or hesitate to quote directly for fear of violating some copyright. A rather useful and safe rule where I went to school is the 3" x 5' index card rule. That was before personal digital assistants and smartphones. People used index cards instead. They are still made and you can still buy them in office supply stores. If the words you quote directly from a source fit on a 3" x 5" index card and you give the name of the source, then you have not violated any U.S. copyright (probably, usually). You are free to pursue the points involved in your own words. That is not written down in any statute, but it is the common interpretation of the statutory and case law on the whole. Not only is it legal to present ideas in your own words it is preferable. If you can't put things in your own words there is little point in you chiming in anyway. |
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Post by Arlon10 on Jan 25, 2018 6:57:38 GMT
When using outside sources for your arguments and discussions on these boards you might hesitate to present material in your own words or hesitate to quote directly for fear of violating some copyright. A rather useful and safe rule where I went to school is the 3" x 5' index card rule. That was before personal digital assistants and smartphones. People used index cards instead. They are still made and you can still buy them in office supply stores. If the words you quote directly from a source fit on a 3" x 5" index card and you give the name of the source, then you have not violated any U.S. copyright (probably, usually). You are free to pursue the points involved in your own words. That is not written down in any statute, but it is the common interpretation of the statutory and case law on the whole. Not only is it legal to present ideas in your own words it is preferable. If you can't put things in your own words there is little point in you chiming in anyway. In many cases as tiny as humanly possible. As I mentioned elsewhere, debaters hold the cards up when they quote and that means bringing small boxes of "quote cards" to the competitions. Some debaters brought large boxes. One team I remember brought a two wheeled "hand truck" or "dolly" with a stack of large boxes of quote cards. Depending on a source for quite a lot of material can mean using more than one quote. (Uh oh, watch out for that.) On the news in Australia do they put a text box on the screen when they directly quote someone? That can give you an idea of the "typical" length of a quote. Considering that the law can regulate direct quoting it should be no surprise that custom does too. Customs can be less specific than laws. The internet has played heck with quoting because large quantities of text can be "linked" instead. The "link" isn't a copy of the kind that might be regulated as "copying" because the text remains on the owner's server and can only be read following any conditions the owner has placed on it. It might be necessary to view ads, sign or log in, pay a subscription or be a member of some group with a password. Quite often there is no such condition and the text is quite "freely" available for reading. The only problem with that is people have lost the art of joining debates with their own words. They aren't critically analyzing as much as before. They are not even reading the material they link with sufficient understanding to join a discussion on it. On this board many people depend on the software to take care of quite many issues of style. It is not unusual for quotes that would take fifteen 3" x 5" index cards of extremely small handwriting. Those are not however "external" quotes, and so they are essentially the same thing as a convenient link to another part of the board. |
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Post by Arlon10 on Jan 26, 2018 8:30:09 GMT
When you watch the news now do you see the text boxes on screen when they make a direct quote? People in other countries, might you help me out here? How do your television programs handle direct quotes?
Listening to the radio lately I noticed that they usually use a recording of the speaker who originated the quote. That way his/her voice clearly marks the start and end of the direct quote. Otherwise it is awkward and they avoid direct quoting. Yesterday on her radio program political commentator Laura Ingraham tried to mimic the voice of Lindsey Graham to directly quote him. I think she usually uses recordings.
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Post by goz on Jan 28, 2018 1:16:10 GMT
When you watch the news now do you see the text boxes on screen when they make a direct quote? People in other countries, might you help me out here? How do your television programs handle direct quotes? Listening to the radio lately I noticed that they usually use a recording of the speaker who originated the quote. That way his/her voice clearly marks the start and end of the direct quote. Otherwise it is awkward and they avoid direct quoting. Yesterday on her radio program political commentator Laura Ingraham tried to mimic the voice of Lindsey Graham to directly quote him. I think she usually uses recordings. Arlon, with science in mind, would you mind telling me "How long is a piece of string"? |
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Post by Arlon10 on Jan 28, 2018 3:59:51 GMT
When you watch the news now do you see the text boxes on screen when they make a direct quote? People in other countries, might you help me out here? How do your television programs handle direct quotes? Listening to the radio lately I noticed that they usually use a recording of the speaker who originated the quote. That way his/her voice clearly marks the start and end of the direct quote. Otherwise it is awkward and they avoid direct quoting. Yesterday on her radio program political commentator Laura Ingraham tried to mimic the voice of Lindsey Graham to directly quote him. I think she usually uses recordings. Arlon, with science in mind, would you mind telling me "How long is a piece of string"? Less than a spool. |
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Post by goz on Jan 28, 2018 4:15:56 GMT
Arlon, with science in mind, would you mind telling me "How long is a piece of string"? Less than a spool. You mean 'ball'? |
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Post by Arlon10 on Jan 28, 2018 10:49:51 GMT
"Spool" is more specific than "ball" because a "ball" can be a wider range of sizes. Search "largest ball of string." |
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Post by maya55555 on Jan 28, 2018 19:05:04 GMT
Arlon 10
Deep man, deep.
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Post by goz on Jan 29, 2018 2:50:30 GMT
"Spool" is more specific than "ball" because a "ball" can be a wider range of sizes. Search "largest ball of string." So clearly, you are NOT getting my point about the amount of writing one can fit on a finite sized card? |
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Post by Arlon10 on Jan 29, 2018 11:15:59 GMT
"Spool" is more specific than "ball" because a "ball" can be a wider range of sizes. Search "largest ball of string." So clearly, you are NOT getting my point about the amount of writing one can fit on a finite sized card? I'll admit that. Perhaps you have the patience to rephrase. |
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Post by goz on Jan 30, 2018 0:28:27 GMT
So clearly, you are NOT getting my point about the amount of writing one can fit on a finite sized card? I'll admit that. Perhaps you have the patience to rephrase. It is really quite simple. You specified that a card was 3" x 5" in size. Surely it depends on the size of the writing just how much writing you can fit on that card. Clearly it is real science. |
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Post by Arlon10 on Jan 30, 2018 17:06:02 GMT
I'll admit that. Perhaps you have the patience to rephrase. It is really quite simple. You specified that a card was 3" x 5" in size. Surely it depends on the size of the writing just how much writing you can fit on that card. Clearly it is real science. Depending on the quality of ink and pen and fineness of the point most people are going to get about 50 to 60 characters per line. Ruled 3" x 5" index cards have 11 lines, but you'll probably need two of those to identify the quote, what it is about, and where you got it. That leaves 450 to 540 characters for the quotation. In this example only 5 lines are used.  |
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Post by goz on Jan 30, 2018 20:55:56 GMT
It is really quite simple. You specified that a card was 3" x 5" in size. Surely it depends on the size of the writing just how much writing you can fit on that card. Clearly it is real science. Depending on the quality of ink and pen and fineness of the point most people are going to get about 50 to 60 characters per line. Ruled 3" x 5" index cards have 11 lines, but you'll probably need two of those to identify the quote, what it is about, and where you got it. That leaves 450 to 540 characters for the quotation. In this example only 5 lines are used. You STILL don't 'get it' do you?  Arlon, you are precious. How about you think for a bit about how many angels you can fit on the head of a pin?  |
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Post by Arlon10 on Jan 30, 2018 22:53:51 GMT
Depending on the quality of ink and pen and fineness of the point most people are going to get about 50 to 60 characters per line. Ruled 3" x 5" index cards have 11 lines, but you'll probably need two of those to identify the quote, what it is about, and where you got it. That leaves 450 to 540 characters for the quotation. In this example only 5 lines are used. <image of a quotation card> You STILL don't 'get it' do you? Arlon, you are precious. How about you think for a bit about how many angels you can fit on the head of a pin? I'm sorry I'm all out of guesses. |
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