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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2018 18:51:17 GMT
My prayer wasn't for a wife, though. I did not ask for a wife. God does not think I deserve to have a better life. God thinks I deserve to go to hell. God does step in and make the lives of starving children better, thus, per my previous post, I am inclined to donate to charities such as the ones that raise money to help children in need. And I give regularly, like, as in, my account is set up for monthly auto-pays to charities. The better question that you should ask is why don't the parents of starving children help their own children. After all, no one feeds my children but me. That's the primary problem. The secondary problem is that the governors of nations that include large swaths of starving people should not be governing. But, the reason this is secondary, of course, is that the primary caregivers to these starving children - their parents - have not taken the necessary measures to improve the secondary cause. Self-determination goes both ways. And, unfortunately, children - per the text - reap the curses of the sins of the father. So God™ has not helped improve your life at all? That seems contrary to your previous claims that God has spoken directly to you and the result was that your life was improved. Please indicate in the post that you are replying to where I said that God has not helped improve my life. Part of your problem is your incessant use of straw men. Oh, I believe it's worse than that. I believe God allows children in the womb to be stabbed in the head with scissors because their parents are sinners. Is that rhetorical? LOL! Actually, there have been thousands of cases of those parents stealing food stuffs from donations intended for children, so you'd be completely wrong there. As for how I propose parents help? Lol, the same way I would help my children. Let's assume we're discussing Africa. I would choose to not continue to live in an area for generation upon generation that is known for famine. For two, I would reject the petty tribalism that has mired most places in Africa in endless governmental upheavals. For three, I would get my children some food. There are dozens of ways to do this. For four, they could start by planting the seeds we send them instead of eating the seeds. You're just being redundant now. I've already answered this question.
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Post by gadreel on Jan 31, 2018 18:58:33 GMT
So God™ has not helped improve your life at all? That seems contrary to your previous claims that God has spoken directly to you and the result was that your life was improved. Please indicate in the post that you are replying to where I said that God has not helped improve my life. Part of your problem is your incessant use of straw men. Oh, I believe it's worse than that. I believe God allows children in the womb to be stabbed in the head with scissors because their parents are sinners. Is that rhetorical? LOL! Actually, there have been thousands of cases of those parents stealing food stuffs from donations intended for children, so you'd be completely wrong there. As for how I propose parents help? Lol, the same way I would help my children. Let's assume we're discussing Africa. I would choose to not continue to live in an area for generation upon generation that is known for famine. For two, I would reject the petty tribalism that has mired most places in Africa in endless governmental upheavals. For three, I would get my children some food. There are dozens of ways to do this. For four, they could start by planting the seeds we send them instead of eating the seeds. You're just being redundant now. I've already answered this question. The implication is pretty clear in this statement: If God™ does not think you deserve a better life, then God™ would not help you to have a better life, unless he was being coerced? Right, so either your God™ is not benevolent, or not capable of intervening. Not really, you seemed to imply that during a famine parents are well catered for. Victim blaming, wicked. But the question remains, why does a benevolent, omniscient, omnipotent God™ not just help the kids, why are they supposed to suffer? Your theology apparently has God punishing the innocent for the crimes of others (that crime of course being living in a place that God™ has struck with starvation in the first place. Are you 100% positive that your theology does not need a bit of tweaking?
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Post by goz on Jan 31, 2018 21:48:05 GMT
I hate to be a doubting Debbie Downer, butt I had a very similar husband, perhaps even more extraordinary about how I met my husband and married him 45 years ago and I am a determined atheist! I have also saved a cat because something in my head told me it was in danger and about to die 40 km away, and many other things that I have foretold. I once told my husband when walking on the beach after a storm that I would find a message in a bottle and I did. I think of it as being very intuitive and a little bit of the Celtic fey.Understandable. But please bear in mind that this was not a moment of intuition. I've had hundreds of those in my life. This was not that. Some of those very well may have been the Holy Spirit nudging me and some of them were simply my own experiences leading me to an intuitive conclusion. But these two experiences were unique from those intuitive moments in the sense that I was being communicated to by something "other" and that I was peculiarly and dramatically aware of the presence of that "other." Of course it is your prerogative to believe that and it seems to underpin your faith, so more power to you, however we sceptics would attribute it to a combination of confirmation bias and a deep need within you, not necessarily for a wife butt for further confirmation.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2018 21:57:58 GMT
Understandable. But please bear in mind that this was not a moment of intuition. I've had hundreds of those in my life. This was not that. Some of those very well may have been the Holy Spirit nudging me and some of them were simply my own experiences leading me to an intuitive conclusion. But these two experiences were unique from those intuitive moments in the sense that I was being communicated to by something "other" and that I was peculiarly and dramatically aware of the presence of that "other." Of course it is your prerogative to believe that and it seems to underpin your faith, so more power to you, however we sceptics would attribute it to a combination of confirmation bias and a deep need within you, not necessarily for a wife butt for further confirmation. Of course, and that's also understandable. But just keep in mind that if it were confirmation bias, a hallucination or any other thing other than what I am attributing it to, there is still the part where the girl who intended to attain her p.h.d., not have children, not get married and did not know me, chose instead to forsake her p.h.d. (and, in fact, her entire line of study), married me and had two of my children. Am I just that sweet a sweet-talker?
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Post by goz on Feb 1, 2018 3:38:43 GMT
Of course it is your prerogative to believe that and it seems to underpin your faith, so more power to you, however we sceptics would attribute it to a combination of confirmation bias and a deep need within you, not necessarily for a wife butt for further confirmation. Of course, and that's also understandable. But just keep in mind that if it were confirmation bias, a hallucination or any other thing other than what I am attributing it to, there is still the part where the girl who intended to attain her p.h.d., not have children, not get married and did not know me, chose instead to forsake her p.h.d. (and, in fact, her entire line of study), married me and had two of my children. Am I just that sweet a sweet-talker? Yeah? ................YEAH? Well I... 'see' ...your 'the part where the girl who intended to attain her p.h.d., not have children, not get married and did not know me, chose instead to forsake her p.h.d. (and, in fact, her entire line of study), married me and had two of my children.'... ...and raise you an atheist 'the part where the girl (me) intended to get her Architecture Degree on a full scholarship ( and in fact almost her line of study as I have a paltry Arts degree obtained after the event)and ditched it to marry a penniless Olympic athlete after his competition, and have his three children.'
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Post by captainbryce on Feb 1, 2018 3:57:42 GMT
What is the Holy Spirit? If you believe the Bible is a true, holy text, what conclusions have you drawn about defining what the Holy Spirit actually amounts to? Well, I no longer believe any of this. However, back when I did, my interpretation of "The Holy Spirit" was nothing more than it being a synonym for the Spirit of God that scripture talks about elsewere. Genesis 1:2The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. Exodus 31:3I have filled him with the Spirit of God in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all kinds of craftsmanship Job 33:4The Spirit of God has made me, And the breath of the Almighty gives me life Isaiah 61:1The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me, Because the LORD has anointed me To bring good news to the afflicted; He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to captives And freedom to prisoners Ezekiel 36:27I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances Matthew 3:16After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him Philippians 3:3for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh 1 Peter 4:14If you are reviled for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you I think that it was never intended by the authors to be interpreted as a separate idea than merely God's will, or given "personhood" in the sense of being a different person from God. I think that all came later when Trinity was introduced, and it became a convoluted, mess of a doctrine, riddled with illogical, conflicting, and confusing interpretations that you need a guru to explain. I think the original writers were much simpler than that, and wanted to convey simple ideas, in laymen's terms.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Feb 1, 2018 12:40:23 GMT
I needed the intercession since she is the perfect compliment to me but I would not have chosen her. I have also been told that one cannot tell what God ought to do, or have done, especially to make one happy, since this is human arrogance. I did not mention what most Christians think. I was talking about what other Christians think. But since you mention it, with the presumed popularity of prayer especially among traditional believers at least, I would say that it is likely that yes, most Christians assume and hope that their god does micromanage. But just because a majority think something does not necessarily make it true. And, moreover, none of this alters the fact that other believers have assured me of the opposite. If we take your view, it is just a shame that He doesn't micromanage enough - to ever grow limbs back at Lourdes, say, where prayers and supplications for same must be uttered aplenty. Sadly, those devout amputees, year after year, had have to leave without any changes being wrought. But I guess your marriage prospects and granny's car problems meant more to Him. (And didn't you say on this board to me only recently that "Good things often do make us weaker" ? Good things can include happy marriages, do they not? Surely their natural surroundings are the world around them? But go on ...
There is no need to justify your view. As already said, if such thoughts make you happy and content, then keep with them. But the idea of the purported Creator of the Universe, Supreme Judge, raiser of kings, etc etc helping to fix your grandmother's car still sounds .. bathetic.
Then again, I prayed to Cthulhu that my train would run on time this morning after I could find socks that match; that seemed to work, so perhaps there is something to this asking favours of the gods.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 15:24:41 GMT
Of course, and that's also understandable. But just keep in mind that if it were confirmation bias, a hallucination or any other thing other than what I am attributing it to, there is still the part where the girl who intended to attain her p.h.d., not have children, not get married and did not know me, chose instead to forsake her p.h.d. (and, in fact, her entire line of study), married me and had two of my children. Am I just that sweet a sweet-talker? Yeah? ................YEAH? Well I... 'see' ...your 'the part where the girl who intended to attain her p.h.d., not have children, not get married and did not know me, chose instead to forsake her p.h.d. (and, in fact, her entire line of study), married me and had two of my children.'... ...and raise you an atheist 'the part where the girl (me) intended to get her Architecture Degree on a full scholarship ( and in fact almost her line of study as I have a paltry Arts degree obtained after the event)and ditched it to marry a penniless Olympic athlete after his competition, and have his three children.'
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 15:28:13 GMT
<fart noise> Let me know when you're ready to enter the realm of intellectual honest again. Nope. The only things I'm 100% sure of is that the Bible is the truth, that I married the right girl and that the check I send my grandma every month is a good thing. Other than that, I'm playing the best odds.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 15:38:47 GMT
Of course, and that's also understandable. But just keep in mind that if it were confirmation bias, a hallucination or any other thing other than what I am attributing it to, there is still the part where the girl who intended to attain her p.h.d., not have children, not get married and did not know me, chose instead to forsake her p.h.d. (and, in fact, her entire line of study), married me and had two of my children. Am I just that sweet a sweet-talker? Yeah? ................YEAH? Well I... 'see' ...your 'the part where the girl who intended to attain her p.h.d., not have children, not get married and did not know me, chose instead to forsake her p.h.d. (and, in fact, her entire line of study), married me and had two of my children.'... ...and raise you an atheist 'the part where the girl (me) intended to get her Architecture Degree on a full scholarship ( and in fact almost her line of study as I have a paltry Arts degree obtained after the event)and ditched it to marry a penniless Olympic athlete after his competition, and have his three children.' Love is not unique to the theist. And it makes me happy to hear anyone testify to finding real love. Life is so much easier when we have an equal partner helping us. It pleases me very much to hear of how love leads to sacrifice. "Sacrifice" was the word I honed in on when I got married and it's how I go about everything now. It's amazing to me how reciprocal it can all end up being. Every time I sacrifice something I want for my wife, I end up reaping twice the bounty.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 16:38:24 GMT
I'm glad you mention the essence of standard angels. For therein are my next two points. Angels, we are told, are not naturally flesh like humans, but rather, they are spirits when they manifest in their natural essence. So, would it seem, is the Holy "Spirit." They are also inherently holy, as, so it would it would seem, is the "Holy" Spirit. Next, what are the traits the Bible tells us the angels exhibit in their roles on earth as it pertains to humans? They comfort, help, minister and protect. The Holy Spirit does all these same things and is even known as "The Comforter." The biggest difference between what standard angels do and what the Holy Spirit does is that the angels were sent on distinct missions at distinct times, whereas the Holy Spirit now covers all of humanity's needs simultaneously. This distinction, of course, is due to the fact that the Holy Spirit is God in angelic form, thus, retaining God's inherent omnipresence. I will pause if you want to add anything before moving on to additional points. Feel free to keep going. Okay, this one is a quick one. You've noticed the theme running through the Bible about unity. It starts with the picture we have of marriage ("...and two shall become one flesh"), which, as you know, is a symbol for the unity of Christ and The Church. But even this is indicative of something grander, which is the unification of our natures. We are given several biblical examples: some of them are based in nature, some of them are based in specific examples of the genealogical line of Adam-David-Christ, and yet others are based in generic genealogy. But where they all lead - thematically - is that when we are reborn, we have left behind the family of Adam, thus, flesh, and have been grafted into a spiritual family through the dual essence of Christ. But let us not forget the modus operandi. The Son first took on our nature - He lowered himself as it were - so we could then become one with His nature. The Father is the one who sent the Son and directed Him to follow this way of doing things. This then leads to the culmination we read about in 1 Corinthians 15: And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Now, i think where we'd agree is that the word "all" is meant to be taken as all humans who have been reborn. Where there may be a disagreement between us is whether the "all" includes all types of beings who will be in heaven with God for eternity. I interpret that to mean that the "all" includes angels. And since I believe that the "all" includes angels, I see no reason to doubt that, just as God sent his Son as a human to redeem humanity so that some humans could be brought back into oneness with God, he probably did the same with the other member of the trinity in order to pull his other sentient creation - angels - closer into oneness with Himself. Keep in mind, just because the angels who stood by God when Lucifer rebelled don't need "saving" in the same sense that humanity did (because these angels have not yet sinned), they were certainly capable of sin after Lucifer's fall (Genesis 6) and may have needed a similar process to keep from sinning. As a sidenote, I think it fits God's character to lower Himself in order to make Himself more accessible to his creations and I see no reason why the angels are any different.
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Post by gadreel on Feb 1, 2018 17:25:39 GMT
<fart noise> Let me know when you're ready to enter the realm of intellectual honest again. Nope. The only things I'm 100% sure of is that the Bible is the truth, that I married the right girl and that the check I send my grandma every month is a good thing. Other than that, I'm playing the best odds. You are victim blaming when you say the parents who are also experiencing the famine are to blame, I notice you avoided my question, would you care to have a go?
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Post by cupcakes on Feb 2, 2018 17:55:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 17:57:13 GMT
<fart noise> Let me know when you're ready to enter the realm of intellectual honest again. Nope. The only things I'm 100% sure of is that the Bible is the truth, that I married the right girl and that the check I send my grandma every month is a good thing. Other than that, I'm playing the best odds. You are victim blaming when you say the parents who are also experiencing the famine are to blame, I notice you avoided my question, would you care to have a go? Wrong, because the victims are the children. If my children don't eat, I'm the culprit. What question? To be fair, you've asked me close to 200 questions.
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Post by goz on Feb 2, 2018 20:54:52 GMT
You are victim blaming when you say the parents who are also experiencing the famine are to blame, I notice you avoided my question, would you care to have a go? Wrong, because the victims are the children. If my children don't eat, I'm the culprit. What question? To be fair, you've asked me close to 200 questions. Are you seriously saying that famines in third world countries are the fault of individual parents, in that they can't feed themselves and their families? You should tell that to the World Health Organisation, and I hope you don't then blame largely Muslim immigrants from Syria for doing a mass exodus to Europe, with that mindset, or worse want them banned from entering USA!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 21:32:24 GMT
Wrong, because the victims are the children. If my children don't eat, I'm the culprit. What question? To be fair, you've asked me close to 200 questions. Are you seriously saying that famines in third world countries are the fault of individual parents Nope, not at all. I don't blame them for famine. I do blame them for not being able to feed their children because a.) you can always find food. always. b.) if they are that poor, they should not reproduce, c.) for generation upon generation they have lived in an area of famine and yet they will not migrate. I have no say or opinion as to what goes on within the domestic policies of European countries. That is none of my business. As far as allowing Syrian refugees into the United States, I have no problem with that, dependent on the conditions of said allowance.
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Post by goz on Feb 2, 2018 22:20:28 GMT
Are you seriously saying that famines in third world countries are the fault of individual parents Nope, not at all. I don't blame them for famine. I do blame them for not being able to feed their children because a.) you can always find food. always. b.) if they are that poor, they should not reproduce, c.) for generation upon generation they have lived in an area of famine and yet they will not migrate. I have no say or opinion as to what goes on within the domestic policies of European countries. That is none of my business. As far as allowing Syrian refugees into the United States, I have no problem with that, dependent on the conditions of said allowance. I find this view incredibly ill informed, callous and frankly unChristian, besides smacking amazingly of white First World privilege. I suggest you educate yourself on the causes of Third World famine. I know you are not Catholic (?) butt it really irritates me when people like you have these views when some of the core problems can be attributed directly or indirectly to the actions of missionaries, imposition of banning modern contraceptives colonialism and civil war often funded by the major powers.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 22:33:20 GMT
Nope, not at all. I don't blame them for famine. I do blame them for not being able to feed their children because a.) you can always find food. always. b.) if they are that poor, they should not reproduce, c.) for generation upon generation they have lived in an area of famine and yet they will not migrate. I have no say or opinion as to what goes on within the domestic policies of European countries. That is none of my business. As far as allowing Syrian refugees into the United States, I have no problem with that, dependent on the conditions of said allowance. I find this view incredibly ill informed, callous and frankly unChristian, besides smacking amazingly of white First World privilege. I suggest you educate yourself on the causes of Third World famine. I know you are not Catholic (?) butt it really irritates me when people like you have these views when some of the core problems can be attributed directly or indirectly to the actions of missionaries, imposition of banning modern contraceptives colonialism and civil war often funded by the major powers. No, not Catholic. Protestant, but beholden to no particular denomination as I find fault in all of them. I don't mean it callously. You're a parent. You know that you would do whatever it took to feed your kids or die trying. I'm aware of colonialism and its effects, however, are you aware that Africa was famine-wrought and poor long before colonialism? Which is not to say that I give a pass to colonialism because I don't. But I also don't give a pass to generation upon generation of parents who could have done something to change their fortune. We cannot help the world we are born into, but we can change things as we proceed through life. Blaming only the profiteers for Africa's unending tribalism and civil wars is myopic. The Africans who fight in those wars and continue to embrace tribalism are equally to blame. I don't believe in any racist constructs like "white privilege," sorry. Contraceptives or no, there is no excuse for bringing children into a world of abject filth and starvation. That's just cruel. Is it un-Christian of me when I donate money to help feed and clothe children in Africa (since I certainly think they are the victims and I don't blame them for the conditions their parents put them in)? Because I do. EVERY MONTH a stipend is reduced from my account and delivered into the coffers of Samaritan's Purse. You may think I am callous, but one thing I always do is ensure that I put my money where my mouth is.
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Post by gadreel on Feb 4, 2018 17:14:01 GMT
You are victim blaming when you say the parents who are also experiencing the famine are to blame, I notice you avoided my question, would you care to have a go? Wrong, because the victims are the children. If my children don't eat, I'm the culprit. What question? To be fair, you've asked me close to 200 questions. So the parents who are suffering in a famine are not victims? Wow. This question:
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Post by goz on Feb 4, 2018 20:57:35 GMT
Wrong, because the victims are the children. If my children don't eat, I'm the culprit. What question? To be fair, you've asked me close to 200 questions. So the parents who are suffering in a famine are not victims? Wow. This question: So Gad, in asking these questions of a born again Christian who obviously has a different perception of a deterministic 'benevolent, omniscient, omnipotent God™' to you, we were recently discussing your perception of God as a creator, what and why is your view so different to Winter's, since you are both Christians>
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