nerdbomber
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Post by nerdbomber on Mar 9, 2017 21:06:28 GMT
my favorite animation studio tbh.
the master of weird storylines and movie concepts - i mean, boss baby sounds absolutely stupid on paper but the trailer for it looks... good?
i didn't want to like anything called "kung fu panda" either, but they did such a great job pulling it off that i have no choice.
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Post by TutuAnimationPrincess on Mar 9, 2017 22:06:45 GMT
I'm not a fan sadly. They started out with a lot of promise with films like Prince of Egypt, Spirit, and Sinbad but have been bogged down by their terrible business model of turning every hit into a franchise. I was hoping How To Train Your Dragon would be a step in the right direction, but they've mostly gotten worse since that movie. Even the sequel to that, while still good, was held back by unnecessary script changes. Movies like Home, Trolls, and the upcoming Boss Baby don't do anything to convince me that I should consider Dreamworks a serious animation studio. Lastly, just to insure I don't get labeled a Disney or Pixar fan girl, I am a heavy supporter of all forms of animation and I have long been an advocate for more respect to the foreign and independent scenes.
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Post by Archelaus on Mar 9, 2017 22:21:49 GMT
I have a love-hate relationship with DreamWorks Animation. They started out so well in their early years with Antz and The Prince of Egypt with the deep, emotionally involving, and mature storytelling. Shrek was great and still holds up, but after that, it went down the parody route with Shark Tale (spoofing gangster and mob films), Monsters vs. Aliens (parodying classic science fiction), and MegaMind (spoofing superhero films) and turn every hit film into a franchise. It limited them creatively, but it made them more distinct from Disney and Pixar. The Kung Fu Panda films and How to Train Your Dragon were a good return to form to what they used to be, but ultimately DreamWorks Animation is not as creatively consistent as Pixar and Disney.
Additionally, they churned out their films like an assembly line with releasing two or three films a year, and it came back to bite them when a string of their films after Rise of the Guardians started underperforming at the box office. It saddened to see them close Pacific Data Images and lay off so many animators back in 2015 followed by the shocking announcement that they axed The Croods 2 and Larrikins (which was a film I was actually looking forward to). We are in an interesting corporate chapter for DreamWorks now they are in the ownership of NBC Universal/Comcast, and hopefully they will have a comeback story (think Waking Sleeping Beauty) of their own.
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nerdbomber
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Post by nerdbomber on Mar 9, 2017 22:35:10 GMT
I'm not a fan sadly. They started out with a lot of promise with films like Prince of Egypt, Spirit, and Sinbad but have been bogged down by their terrible business model of turning every hit into a franchise. I was hoping How To Train Your Dragon would be a step in the right direction, but they've mostly gotten worse since that movie. Even the sequel to that, while still good, was held back by unnecessary script changes. Movies like Home, Trolls, and the upcoming Boss Baby don't do anything to convince me that I should consider Dreamworks a serious animation studio. Lastly, just to insure I don't get labeled a Disney or Pixar fan girl, I am a heavy supporter of all forms of animation and I have long been an advocate for more respect to the foreign and independent scenes. I'm so glad someone else appreciates Sinbad! The animation was so fluid (Eris!!), the story was solid, and even the really minor characters had distinct personalities. (Though the humor is definitely post-Shrek) It really didn't deserve the lukewarm reception it got. Dreamworks 2D movies were really something special, and in my opinion stronger and more creative as a whole than the Disney renaissance. I thought Home was charming, if a little gimmicky, though still rawer and more emotionally engaging to me than the tepid, sterile stuff Pixar turns out. (Which, btw, is no stranger to franchise pimping - Cars; Finding Nemo; Monsters Inc; The Incredibles; what Toy Story number are they on again??) And Boss Baby isn't even out yet. |
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nerdbomber
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Post by nerdbomber on Mar 9, 2017 22:51:58 GMT
I have a love-hate relationship with DreamWorks Animation. They started out so well in their early years with Antz and The Prince of Egypt with the deep, emotionally involving, and mature storytelling. Shrek was great and still holds up, but after that, it went down the parody route with Shark Tale (spoofing gangster and mob films), Monsters vs. Aliens (parodying classic science fiction), and MegaMind (spoofing superhero films) and turn every hit film into a franchise. It limited them creatively, but it made them more distinct from Disney and Pixar. The Kung Fu Panda films and How to Train Your Dragon were a good return to form to what they used to be, but ultimately DreamWorks Animation is not as creatively consistent as Pixar and Disney. Additionally, they churned out their films like an assembly line with releasing two or three films a year, and it came back to bite them when a string of their films after Rise of the Guardians started underperforming at the box office. It saddened to see them close Pacific Data Images and lay off so many animators back in 2015 followed by the shocking announcement that they axed The Croods 2 and Larrikins (which was a film I was actually looking forward to). We are in an interesting corporate chapter for DreamWorks now they are in the ownership of NBC Universal/Comcast, and hopefully they will have a comeback story (think Waking Sleeping Beauty) of their own. While you can rely more on Disney and Pixar to not turn out outright crap, they can't match the out-of-the-box ethos that Dreamworks applies to their movies. I think the creative risks DWA takes are part of why their movies flop more often. True, Disney/Pixar would never make something like Bee Movie, but they also never made The Prince of Egypt (which imo outshines anything either of those studios have ever done) Pixar does the same cutesy odd couple roadtrip movie ad nauseam and while Disney isn't mining fairytales for content anymore, they still generally play it safe. Dreamworks, from the beginning, has taken on concepts Disney wouldn't touch - including The Prince of Egypt. So, better? Arguably. More creative? lmao no. I'm not sure its fair to argue quality based on box office stats/financial success (like...look at Frozen lol). And ROTG was good. You can bet that if it had Disney or Pixar slapped across the front of the title it would have done better. (Also: yeah, Antz was great. Though the animation is hideously dated now imo) |
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Post by Archelaus on Mar 9, 2017 23:36:28 GMT
I have a love-hate relationship with DreamWorks Animation. They started out so well in their early years with Antz and The Prince of Egypt with the deep, emotionally involving, and mature storytelling. Shrek was great and still holds up, but after that, it went down the parody route with Shark Tale (spoofing gangster and mob films), Monsters vs. Aliens (parodying classic science fiction), and MegaMind (spoofing superhero films) and turn every hit film into a franchise. It limited them creatively, but it made them more distinct from Disney and Pixar. The Kung Fu Panda films and How to Train Your Dragon were a good return to form to what they used to be, but ultimately DreamWorks Animation is not as creatively consistent as Pixar and Disney. Additionally, they churned out their films like an assembly line with releasing two or three films a year, and it came back to bite them when a string of their films after Rise of the Guardians started underperforming at the box office. It saddened to see them close Pacific Data Images and lay off so many animators back in 2015 followed by the shocking announcement that they axed The Croods 2 and Larrikins (which was a film I was actually looking forward to). We are in an interesting corporate chapter for DreamWorks now they are in the ownership of NBC Universal/Comcast, and hopefully they will have a comeback story (think Waking Sleeping Beauty) of their own. While I think you can rely more on Disney and Pixar to not turn out outright crap, they can't match the out-of-the-box ethos that Dreamworks applies to their movies. I think the creative risks DWA takes are part of why their movies flop more often. Pixar does the same odd couple road trip movie ad nauseam and while Disney isn't mining fairytales for content anymore, they still generally play it safe. Dreamworks, from the beginning, has taken on concepts Disney wouldn't touch - including The Prince of Egypt. So, better? Arguably. More creative? lmao no. I'm not sure its fair to argue quality based on box office stats/financial success (like...look at Frozen lol). And ROTG was good. You can bet that if it had Disney or Pixar slapped across the front of the title it would have done better. (Also: Antz was great. Though the animation is hideously dated now imo) That's what I meant. One film from DreamWorks is generally a good one, while the next one is sometimes an average, but entertaining one. I do feel they did take creative risks in their early years since a film at the level of Prince of Egypt is almost inconceivable in today's market. However, whatever "creative risks" is not the reason why their films started underperforming since 2012. It's more to due to the unsuccessful marketing of their films and heavy competition against films that feed into their target audience/demographics. For example, Turbo and Penguins of Madagascar came on the heels after Despicable Me 2 and Big Hero 6, which were huge box office grossers. By the time the latter films came out, the family audience had already had their fill of theatrical animation entertainment. This is why DreamWorks struggled to find a proper release date for Kung Fu Panda 3 so it wouldn't be overshadowed by Star Wars: The Force Awakens in early January, but it couldn't be overshadowed by Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice if it were released in March. That said, all studios have their own formula for successful films -Disney and Pixar included. For DreamWorks, it has, for a long time, felt like commerce overruled art. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 12:32:04 GMT
Dreamworks is the "don bluth" studios of the modern era.
When it misses, it misfires. However, when it hits, it's EXCEPTIONAL.
Remember "The Prince of Egypt" and "ANTZ"? followed by Shrek.
Shrek was a blessing and a curse for the studio. It was by far their biggest financial, critical, and commercial success as a franchise (1 and 2). However, it made the studio short sided.
They decided the public only wanted satire animation, so they made Shark Tale, a satire on Mob Films, and so on an so forth.
It wasn't until "How to Train Your Dragon" that they returned to adult/mature storytelling like P.I.X.A.R. has been so successful with.
I would take "Antz" over "A Bug's Life" any day, and I would take "The Prince of Egypt" over any Disney renaissance film Between "Pocahontas" and "Tarzan".
But they have done nothing to touch either "The Lion King" from Disney or "Toy Story" from P.I.X.A.R. imho.
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nerdbomber
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Post by nerdbomber on Mar 11, 2017 19:32:15 GMT
While I think you can rely more on Disney and Pixar to not turn out outright crap, they can't match the out-of-the-box ethos that Dreamworks applies to their movies. I think the creative risks DWA takes are part of why their movies flop more often. Pixar does the same odd couple road trip movie ad nauseam and while Disney isn't mining fairytales for content anymore, they still generally play it safe. Dreamworks, from the beginning, has taken on concepts Disney wouldn't touch - including The Prince of Egypt. So, better? Arguably. More creative? lmao no. I'm not sure its fair to argue quality based on box office stats/financial success (like...look at Frozen lol). And ROTG was good. You can bet that if it had Disney or Pixar slapped across the front of the title it would have done better. (Also: Antz was great. Though the animation is hideously dated now imo) That's what I meant. One film from DreamWorks is generally a good one, while the next one is sometimes an average, but entertaining one. I do feel they did take creative risks in their early years since a film at the level of Prince of Egypt is almost inconceivable in today's market. However, whatever "creative risks" is not the reason why their films started underperforming since 2012. It's more to due to the unsuccessful marketing of their films and heavy competition against films that feed into their target audience/demographics. For example, Turbo and Penguins of Madagascar came on the heels after Despicable Me 2 and Big Hero 6, which were huge box office grossers. By the time the latter films came out, the family audience had already had their fill of theatrical animation entertainment. This is why DreamWorks struggled to find a proper release date for Kung Fu Panda 3 so it wouldn't be overshadowed by Star Wars: The Force Awakens in early January, but it couldn't be overshadowed by Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice if it were released in March. That said, all studios have their own formula for successful films -Disney and Pixar included. For DreamWorks, it has, for a long time, felt like commerce overruled art. I think you're confusing creativity with quality - and what i was responding to specifically was your comment that Disney and Pixar are more creative. They really aren't; Disney in particular seems to have a long list of stuff it won't touch. Dreamworks will try anything once - not just back in the day with The Prince of Egypt, but all along, if Boss Baby is anything to go by. And I think that creative risk does have a lot to do with why Dreamworks flops more frequently - if it costs a zillion dollars to go to the movies these days, especially if you're dragging the whole family along, are you going to risk it on something as weird-sounding as Boss Baby, which has an equal chance of being good or garbage given Dreamworks' track record, when you can see something from a reliable studio (i.e., Disney/Pixar) or franchise (Minions)? |
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Post by nerdbomber on Mar 11, 2017 19:36:59 GMT
btw - I don't think sequels are necessarily a bad thing (for DWA or any other studio). It's not like they're adding onto garbage like Shark Tale, and the sequels themselves are usually close to the same quality as the original. It's fine as long as it makes narrative sense to keep the story going.
Also, Pixar is just as likely to franchise their hits as Dreamworks is.
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Post by LeWildPlatypus on Mar 11, 2017 20:38:37 GMT
Will they bounce back? Only time will tell, hopefully Shrek 5 and Shadows will save them.
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Post by Archelaus on Mar 12, 2017 3:10:50 GMT
Fine. My mistake. I did mean to imply the films from DreamWorks Animation was not as quality consistent as Disney and Pixar. A poor choice of words on my part.
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Post by LaurenceBranagh on Mar 12, 2017 4:50:30 GMT
It has made some good films and some bad ones (and some really bad ones), but only two great ones, in my opinion: Curse of the Were-Rabbit and Chicken Run.
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Post by Two Socks on Mar 12, 2017 14:06:22 GMT
Dreamworks started great with Prince of Egypt when they were trying to do things Disney wasn't doing. Then when they started the whole Shrek thing with taking jabs at Disney and making everything a pun joke that's when it got bad. The only thing that I thought would bring them back to "good" would be How To Train Your Dragon or Kung Fu Panda, but they've made a mess of that with sequels sequels sequels. They unfortunately lost their way.
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Two Socks
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Post by Two Socks on Mar 12, 2017 14:06:58 GMT
It has made some good films and some bad ones (and some really bad ones), but only two great ones, in my opinion: Curse of the Were-Rabbit and Chicken Run. Those are Aardman films. Dreamworks only released them, they didn't make them. |
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nerdbomber
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Post by nerdbomber on Mar 12, 2017 16:19:45 GMT
Dreamworks started great with Prince of Egypt when they were trying to do things Disney wasn't doing. Then when they started the whole Shrek thing with taking jabs at Disney and making everything a pun joke that's when it got bad. The only thing that I thought would bring them back to "good" would be How To Train Your Dragon or Kung Fu Panda, but they've made a mess of that with sequels sequels sequels. They unfortunately lost their way. What's wrong with sequels? As long as they're good and fit together as a story, so what? (And they have been good, so far.) |
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nerdbomber
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Post by nerdbomber on Mar 12, 2017 16:22:03 GMT
Speaking of - while Dreamworks and Pixar turn out sequels that are at least close in quality to the original movies, Disney sequels are often significantly worse. (Pocahontas 2, Mulan 2, Hunchback 2, etc. are awful visually and story-wise.)
What's up with that?
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Post by misstique on Mar 12, 2017 16:40:55 GMT
Speaking of - while Dreamworks and Pixar turn out sequels that are at least close in quality to the original movies, Disney sequels are often significantly worse. (Pocahontas 2, Mulan 2, Hunchback 2, etc. are awful visually and story-wise.) What's up with that? Those Disney sequels that you are referring to were all made cheaply and quickly and released Direct-to-video. They were never meant to be as good as the originals. |
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Post by LaurenceBranagh on Mar 12, 2017 19:31:45 GMT
It has made some good films and some bad ones (and some really bad ones), but only two great ones, in my opinion: Curse of the Were-Rabbit and Chicken Run. Those are Aardman films. Dreamworks only released them, they didn't make them. I know, but they are still officially DreamWorks films. |
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nerdbomber
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Post by nerdbomber on Mar 12, 2017 22:35:56 GMT
Speaking of - while Dreamworks and Pixar turn out sequels that are at least close in quality to the original movies, Disney sequels are often significantly worse. (Pocahontas 2, Mulan 2, Hunchback 2, etc. are awful visually and story-wise.) What's up with that? Those Disney sequels that you are referring to were all made cheaply and quickly and released Direct-to-video. They were never meant to be as good as the originals. well, obviously. what i was getting at is, why doesn't disney bother to put the same effort and resources into their sequels? |
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Post by TutuAnimationPrincess on Mar 13, 2017 3:58:30 GMT
As the subject of sequels has become a big part of this topic, I thought I would clarify all fronts regarding this.
Regarding Disney sequels:
After the bombing of Rescuers Down Under, Disney has shied away from big budget, theatrical release sequels. All sequels up to this point have been cheapquels released by the secondary Disney Toon studios. That seems poised to change soon with Frozen 2 and Wreck-It Ralph 2 on the horizon as big budget sequels.
Regarding Pixar sequels:
For a long time, Pixar avoided sequels mainly due to difficulty of maintaining ownership of their own franchises. After the Disney buy out, this was no longer a problem. Just the same, I feel that the Cars franchise has been the only questionable sequel making by Pixar and Pixar has already announced their sequel making is going on hiatus soon so I'm still not going to accuse them of franchise milking.
Regarding Dreamworks sequels:
The company essentially started off with the model of "if it's a success, franchise the hell out of it". Believe it or not, both Road to El Dorado and Sinbad were meant to be the beginning of franchises, showcasing how early the company had this mentality. Obviously those weren't hits, but Dreamworks has fully applied there strategy elsewhere. There's a friggin Shrek 5 on the way despite the less than positive responses to the last two films. Also, Madagascar being a franchise still confuses me to this day. I'm at least glad that How To Train Your Dragon is getting the trilogy treatment, but the script changes for the second film have largely killed this franchise from reaching the greatness it could have.
At the end of the day, sequels should only come when there is legitimate reason. Cars not withstanding, Pixar is the only company to mostly follow this logic.
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