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Post by ThatGuy on Feb 15, 2018 13:41:23 GMT
But he never wanted to start the X-men. He wipes her mind because she knows too much. And works for the government. And she knows too much. He wanted to form a team based around his Westchester mansion at the end of First Class. He wipes her mind for those reasons yes, still a sacrifice because he thinks he can never be with a human at that period of time when mutant-human relations are fragile. Doing it for her own good. And Moira. And Havoc. And Banshee. Its a collective loss. All he has left is Beast. He restored her memories and quoted saying "I should have never taken those away from you". I.e he realises he has no right in manipulating others memories and thoughts without their permission for his own agenda; a lesson he learned from DOFP with letting Mistique choose to kill trask or not. So he is a different person from First Class. Is that something you added in your mind? None of that has anything to do with his how he is in DoFP. It was the loss of Mystique and blaming Magneto. Notice it was only Magneto that brought up the death of the others. The school was what was keeping him on an even level because it kept his mind off of Mystique for the most part. Then the war happens and everyone leaves and he has free time. Now the depression. Which is stupid because his power is to mess with a person's mind. And he will do it again. He does it again in giving her her memories back. So now she has these memories flooding back in. She would have been better off with her new memories. |
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Post by charzhino on Feb 15, 2018 14:38:17 GMT
]Is that something you added in your mind? None of that has anything to do with his how he is in DoFP. It was the loss of Mystique and blaming Magneto. Notice it was only Magneto that brought up the death of the others. The school was what was keeping him on an even level because it kept his mind off of Mystique for the most part. Then the war happens and everyone leaves and he has free time. Now the depression. Which is stupid because his power is to mess with a person's mind. And he will do it again. He does it again in giving her her memories back. So now she has these memories flooding back in. She would have been better off with her new memories. No Moira isnt mentioned by name, but it is implied when Beast says "he lost everything" implying everything from what was established in the previous film. Its upto you wither you think she would be better of with her new memories, but Xavier giving back something he effectively stole cant be a bad thing imo. Look the ultimate point is Singer wanted to conclude the relationship that was set up in FC. Whether it was effective or not is down to your personal interpretation. I was just making the point that this needed closure where women like Pepper, Black widow, Lois Lane and Jane get written into dead ends with no real purpose. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 15, 2018 14:48:59 GMT
No Moira isnt mentioned by name, but it is implied when Beast says "he lost everything" implying everything from what was established in the previous film. He didn't "Lose" Moira, he violated her mind and sent her away. He discarded her because she was an inconvenience. For all we know, the way she led her life for the last 20 years is due to her altered memories. Now she has her real memories back and she's left wondering if the life she has now is the correct one. Only Jane was a dead-end, and that was due to Portman wanting out. Pepper, Natasha, Lois and Peggy all have more to do than just be love interests in the first place. |
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Post by charzhino on Feb 15, 2018 15:18:43 GMT
Pepper and Lois are reduced to background ornaments and miles away from their importance in the opening films. Peggy gets a lame off screen death. Natasha is basically a slut and the writers are running out of Avengers for her to hit on. All dead end characters that could be written out of their last film appearances and nothing would change.
The only decent romance MCU has is gamora and Starlord.
Gwen Stacy, rachel dawes, Vanessa-Deadpool ,jean grey and MJ from Raimis films is how you write effective romance arcs which have STAKES.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 15, 2018 15:22:30 GMT
Pepper and Lois are reduced to background ornaments and miles away from their importance in the opening films. Peggy gets a lame off screen death. Natasha is basically a slut and the writers are running out of Avengers for her to hit on. All dead end characters that could be written out of their last film appearances and nothing would change. Pepper got more to do in IM3 than she did in the first film, Lois' character is far better than the nutbag we got in the Donner films, Peggy was a hero for decades and ran SHIELD and died of natural causes (which is an extreme rarity in CBMs), and Natasha works fine as a realist in the Avengers. By your logic, any secondary character could be written out and nothing would change. Hell, Magneto didn't need to be in Apocalypse. |
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Post by charzhino on Feb 15, 2018 15:25:41 GMT
Pepper and Lois are reduced to background ornaments and miles away from their importance in the opening films. Peggy gets a lame off screen death. Natasha is basically a slut and the writers are running out of Avengers for her to hit on. All dead end characters that could be written out of their last film appearances and nothing would change. Pepper got more to do in IM3 than she did in the first film, Lois' character is far better than the nutbag we got in the Donner films, Peggy was a hero for decades and ran SHIELD and died of natural causes (which is an extreme rarity in CBMs), and Natasha works fine as a realist in the Avengers. By your logic, any secondary character could be written out and nothing would change. Hell, Magneto didn't need to be in Apocalypse. Pepper should have died but thr studio didnt have the balls to do it. Now shes a nothing character. And read my edit to see how "secondary " characters CAN influence plots and be integral to the heros journeys and not background junk. |
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maxwellperfect
Junior Member
@maxwellperfect
Posts: 3,966
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Post by maxwellperfect on Feb 15, 2018 15:40:11 GMT
Someone needs to cast Rose as Emma Peel in a new Avengers movie. Pronto!
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 15, 2018 16:19:24 GMT
Pepper got more to do in IM3 than she did in the first film, Lois' character is far better than the nutbag we got in the Donner films, Peggy was a hero for decades and ran SHIELD and died of natural causes (which is an extreme rarity in CBMs), and Natasha works fine as a realist in the Avengers. By your logic, any secondary character could be written out and nothing would change. Hell, Magneto didn't need to be in Apocalypse. Pepper should have died but thr studio didnt have the balls to do it. Now shes a nothing character. And read my edit to see how "secondary " characters CAN influence plots and be integral to the heros journeys and not background junk. Killing off women to drive the male lead, wow how progressive. She still has room as a character, they just weren't sure if Paltrow was coming back or not. And yes, if you ask I think killing off Rachel in TDK was lame too. But Nolan's always done that to his women and there are folks still backwards enough to think it's a good idea. "Gwen Stacy, rachel dawes, Vanessa-Deadpool ,jean grey and MJ from Raimis films is how you write effective romance arcs which have STAKES." Gwen's increased role in ASM came at the expense of making Peter less intelligent, Rachel was an overall typical Nolan plot device, Vanessa in DP was similarly just a plot device but the acting made up for it, Jean Grey has always been a waste in the movie, and MJ in Raimis films is just terrible. |
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Post by bluerisk on Mar 8, 2018 20:44:41 GMT
Minor characters dont need to be 100% comic accurate. She served the role of a CIA agent used to bridge the gap between them and Charles Mutant crew. They should've used the actual FBI agent from the old X-Men comics then. But an FBI agent cannot operate globally (no matter what Mulder and Scully did). |
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 8, 2018 21:25:16 GMT
They should've used the actual FBI agent from the old X-Men comics then. But an FBI agent cannot operate globally (no matter what Mulder and Scully did). Well, you know what I mean. Use the guy from the early X-Men comics who was Xavier's friend in the Government and make him a CIA Agent. |
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Post by bluerisk on Mar 8, 2018 21:48:07 GMT
But an FBI agent cannot operate globally (no matter what Mulder and Scully did). Well, you know what I mean. Use the guy from the early X-Men comics who was Xavier's friend in the Government and make him a CIA Agent. I guess they also wanted a love story for Xavier (female audience?!) I have no problem with her character, albeit it was her who actually woke up Apocalypto and in his wake millions lost their lives. We saw only collapsing buildings and tiny cars falling down bridges, but if this was real, it would be the death of millions...hence you can't let Magneto walk away. He killed millions. Aside from that I found the creepy jokes of Xavier towards agent Taggert rather disturbing and not in line with the character. |
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Post by Agent of Chaos on Mar 9, 2018 9:10:36 GMT
Well, you know what I mean. Use the guy from the early X-Men comics who was Xavier's friend in the Government and make him a CIA Agent. I guess they also wanted a love story for Xavier (female audience?!) I have no problem with her character, albeit it was her who actually woke up Apocalypto and in his wake millions lost their lives. We saw only collapsing buildings and tiny cars falling down bridges, but if this was real, it would be the death of millions...hence you can't let Magneto walk away. He killed millions. Aside from that I found the creepy jokes of Xavier towards agent Taggert rather disturbing and not in line with the character. Well Xavier also killed hundreds when he blew up submarines. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 10, 2018 18:53:28 GMT
Well, you know what I mean. Use the guy from the early X-Men comics who was Xavier's friend in the Government and make him a CIA Agent. I guess they also wanted a love story for Xavier (female audience?!) I have no problem with her character, albeit it was her who actually woke up Apocalypto and in his wake millions lost their lives. We saw only collapsing buildings and tiny cars falling down bridges, but if this was real, it would be the death of millions...hence you can't let Magneto walk away. He killed millions. Aside from that I found the creepy jokes of Xavier towards agent Taggert rather disturbing and not in line with the character. Xavier's love interest before creating the X-men was Amelia Voght. She's was his nurse and a mutant that was against Xavier creating the X-men, then later joined Magneto's Acolytes. Should have used her. But as they did for the movie they merged Voght, Val Cooper and Moira. |
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