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Post by johnblutarsky on Mar 11, 2017 16:05:51 GMT
How do you distinguish between an intangible god and a nonexistent god?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2017 16:19:41 GMT
Yes, he wants to obscure himself from people, even though he knows exactly which of his 'creations' are going to 'find him' (by sheer guesswork or accident of birth) and then he's going to punish or withhold rewards from those who were born in the wrong place or who guessed wrongly (even though he would have had to have known which people were going to be born in the wrong place or guess wrongly from the start of the universe).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2017 20:53:12 GMT
I disagree. I do not personally perceive God being like this at all. I think you're trying to make this about a Personal Jesus type of situation. Just speaking for myself, I do not see God as some robed being floating in the sky who is either vengeful or merciful. To me, God is a representation of whatever that force was that created the Big Bang and created Life. That energy which we cannot create. We can manipulate it, but we must always start with something. I simply perceive that Life-starting force to be God.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Mar 11, 2017 21:50:25 GMT
So basically the same argument for having an imaginary friend. Gotcha
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2017 21:57:00 GMT
My "imaginary friend" cannot create a universe. I see that as, again, more of a personal issue.
The Energy that created Life from nothingness, that is another name for God. You're trying to make this personal. For some, I understand, they process this as literal interpretation. I happen to disagree, and for me, it's a matter of parables. That's all. Nothing more.
You're really reading way too much into this.
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Post by ChaosMonster on Mar 12, 2017 0:27:20 GMT
How do you distinguish between an intangible god and a nonexistent god? Just because God is invisible does not mean He doesn't exist. |
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Mar 12, 2017 0:45:45 GMT
"Walk by faith, not by sight." When you choose to accept him, you know He's real. It is about separating those who want to follow Him and those who don't. God isn't forcing anyone to follow Him. So the whole "I need evidence for God" argument is moot. He reveals Himself when you accept him. If you are a skeptic, or don't believe, or don't want to believe, then you made your decision in life. God just wants those who WANT to follow him, he doesn't want a bunch of people who believe because they have to. How many Atheists would really want to follow Jesus' message and teachings if you HAD to? If God came down from Heaven right now, walked to the capital of the United States and declared he is real and his message in the Bible is 100% correct and you need to follow the way of Christ. How many of you Atheists would be disappointed? How many of you would WANT to believe? You would be forced to follow someone and have resentment in your heart because you're forced to live a lifestyle you don't want to live. So therefore God gives everyone free will. Free will to choose. He doesn't want you if you HAVE to believe in him with proof or evidence out of circumstances, he wants followers who WANT to worship Him. Knowing/believing that God/Jesus exists does not mean you have to follow his teachings. If that were the case then prisons would be a lot less full than they currently are. God (being all powerful) could easily make everyone believe in him and we'd still get to decide whether or not we want to follow the rules. But this very random system that only people that happen to be born into Christian families are indoctrinated into the religion from birth somehow "magically" find the belief in God just seems a bit haphazard for the all-loving, all-powerful being that we're all meant to worship as our saviour... |
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Post by johnblutarsky on Mar 12, 2017 3:04:23 GMT
How do you distinguish between an intangible god and a nonexistent god? Just because God is invisible does not mean He doesn't exist. You're right, but it doesn't mean that he exists either. For your example, that's like saying...just because the tooth fairy is invisible that does not mean it does not exist...or just because my friend Shamus - the leprechaun is invisible, that does not mean he doesn't exist. The default should be to disbelieve unless you have evidence. Otherwise, you end up believing all sorts of crazy nonsense. |
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Post by captainbryce on Mar 12, 2017 16:32:07 GMT
"Walk by faith, not by sight." When you choose to accept him, you know He's real. It is about separating those who want to follow Him and those who don't. God isn't forcing anyone to follow Him. So the whole "I need evidence for God" argument is moot. He reveals Himself when you accept him. If you are a skeptic, or don't believe, or don't want to believe, then you made your decision in life. God just wants those who WANT to follow him, he doesn't want a bunch of people who believe because they have to. How many Atheists would really want to follow Jesus' message and teachings if you HAD to? If God came down from Heaven right now, walked to the capital of the United States and declared he is real and his message in the Bible is 100% correct and you need to follow the way of Christ. How many of you Atheists would be disappointed? How many of you would WANT to believe? You would be forced to follow someone and have resentment in your heart because you're forced to live a lifestyle you don't want to live. So therefore God gives everyone free will. Free will to choose. He doesn't want you if you HAVE to believe in him with proof or evidence out of circumstances, he wants followers who WANT to worship Him. Nonsense! No one "knows" if God is real or not. To know something is to have actual, physical, tangible evidence of it's existence. Knowledge must be based on observable, testable, and falsifiable data. God fits none of that criteria, which means NOBODY knows if he exists or not. People may BELIEVE he exists, but belief is not knowledge. Even if you accept that belief as true, that doesn't mean that it is true in reality. Not only is God not forcing anyone to follow him, he's also not giving anyone a reason for following him, as there is no evidence that he even exists. If he only reveals himself when we accept him, then what is the motivation for anyone to accept him in the first place? That becomes a completely illogical and unreasonable God. If God existed and he really wanted people to follow him, then he would reveal himself FIRST, lay out his demands, and then wait and see who followed him and who doesn't. Kind of like everything that is claimed in the Old Testament (but of which there is zero evidence to verify). You ask how many atheists would want to follow Jesus's message and teachings if they had to? This is ass backwards thinking because this is the real MOOT question. Atheists already know they don't have too because they don't believe God exists. It is theists who believe they have to (otherwise they are going to hell). And that's the only reason you follow those teachings. Atheists use logic and reason to decide whether or not to follow a belief or teaching. You test the belief to see if it's true FIRST, then you decide if it makes sense, and is worthy of being followed. If it cannot be demonstrably proven (God), or it doesn't make any sense (religion), then logic dictates that you don't believe in it. EVERYONE would want to follow Jesus IF they knew he existed AND saw the benefit to his teachings. A lot of his teachings make sense (in fact most of them do with respect to how we should treat each other). Other teachings of his do not make sense (the supernatural Mumbo jumbo) or the believing without seeing. So that is why we should be skeptical. If something doesn't make sense, it's probably not true, and if God really wanted everyone to worship him, he'd reveal himself and give everyone who doesn't believe he exists a reason to consider worshiping him. The fact that he does proves that he either is incompetent, that he doesn't really care, or that he doesn't exist at all. All things being equal, the simplest answer is the best one. |
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