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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 4, 2018 14:01:04 GMT
Your vision of AN alternative sounds awful. Got it. Well, thats' what happens when you end on "And they all lived happily ever after, the end forever".
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 4, 2018 14:07:28 GMT
In an army of millions of conscripts who weren't there by choice but didn't have anywhere to run off to, you'll have folks like that. If it's for the sole purpose of showing off how awesome the OT characters are and how the ST characters are wholly inadequate and useless, then yes. Because the idea behind it is mean-spirited and not character-related. No one hated them for existing. Nah, truth. Know why no one had a problem with Jyn Erso and her gang? Cause they all had one adventure and died. They didn't continue and threaten the OT cast. Not so with the ST, and their continued existence is something OT fans just can't forgive.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 4, 2018 14:08:29 GMT
Well, thats' what happens when you end on "And they all lived happily ever after, the end forever". Nope, that's why the EU makes sure to wrap up everything like a neat little package and never had the guts to kill off any of the OT cast (aside from Chewbacca). The EU reguarly mocked the idea of the OT cast passing the torch to anyone else.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 4, 2018 14:11:00 GMT
Nah, truth. Know why no one had a problem with Jyn Erso and her gang? Cause they all had one adventure and died. They didn't continue and threaten the OT cast. Not so with the ST, and their continued existence is something OT fans just can't forgive.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 4, 2018 14:13:58 GMT
Nope, that's why the EU makes sure to wrap up everything like a neat little package and never had the guts to kill off any of the OT cast (aside from Chewbacca). The EU reguarly mocked the idea of the OT cast passing the torch to anyone else.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 4, 2018 14:15:06 GMT
Nah, truth. Know why no one had a problem with Jyn Erso and her gang? Cause they all had one adventure and died. They didn't continue and threaten the OT cast. Not so with the ST, and their continued existence is something OT fans just can't forgive. Have Jyn Erso show up and interact with the OT leads (yes I know it's impossible) and have her NOT be portrayed as a useless sidekick to Leia and let her do stuff that shows she's a heroic character in her own right, she'll become one of the most hatred SW characters in history.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 4, 2018 14:16:28 GMT
Nope, that's why the EU makes sure to wrap up everything like a neat little package and never had the guts to kill off any of the OT cast (aside from Chewbacca). The EU reguarly mocked the idea of the OT cast passing the torch to anyone else. Using Rogue One just PROVES my point over how OT fans can't accept the idea of new characters who live past one story. Especially not ones who could serve as replacements for Luke and Leia and Han and stuff.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 4, 2018 14:18:55 GMT
Using Rogue One just PROVES my point over how OT fans can't accept the idea of new characters who live past one story. Especially not ones who could serve as replacements for Luke and Leia and Han and stuff.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 4, 2018 14:20:13 GMT
Have Jyn Erso show up and interact with the OT leads (yes I know it's impossible) and have her NOT be portrayed as a useless sidekick to Leia and let her do stuff that shows she's a heroic character in her own right, she'll become one of the most hatred SW characters in history.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 4, 2018 14:22:58 GMT
Using Rogue One just PROVES my point over how OT fans can't accept the idea of new characters who live past one story. Especially not ones who could serve as replacements for Luke and Leia and Han and stuff. Why do you think they killed off everyone from Rogue One then?
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 4, 2018 14:27:10 GMT
Why do you think they killed off everyone from Rogue One then? Because those characters are not in ANH. Duh!
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 4, 2018 14:48:56 GMT
Why do you think they killed off everyone from Rogue One then? Because those characters are not in ANH. Duh! Oh, so it wasn't possible to just have be off somewhere else doing something else during ANH? They HAD to die? You're A-Okay with them killing off Jyn Erso and her group instead of leaving them alive elsewhere so we'd have more stories of their adventures, but you cant' stand the ST for killing off the OT characters. Nice double standard.
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ryboto
Sophomore
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Post by ryboto on Apr 4, 2018 17:34:11 GMT
Because those characters are not in ANH. Duh! Oh, so it wasn't possible to just have be off somewhere else doing something else during ANH? They HAD to die? You're A-Okay with them killing off Jyn Erso and her group instead of leaving them alive elsewhere so we'd have more stories of their adventures, but you cant' stand the ST for killing off the OT characters. Nice double standard. Bro, it's ok, no need to cry about it.
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ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Apr 4, 2018 17:37:09 GMT
Your vision of AN alternative sounds awful. Got it. Well, thats' what happens when you end on "And they all lived happily ever after, the end forever". Nope
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 4, 2018 18:20:54 GMT
Well, thats' what happens when you end on "And they all lived happily ever after, the end forever". Nope If ROTJ didn't end on "Happily Ever After" then there'd be no complaints that the ST undid the ending of the OT. And yes, it is double standard to think that the Rogue One characters sticking around would be good but the ST characters existing is bad.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 4, 2018 18:25:27 GMT
Because those characters are not in ANH. Duh! Oh, so it wasn't possible to just have be off somewhere else doing something else during ANH? They HAD to die? You're A-Okay with them killing off Jyn Erso and her group instead of leaving them alive elsewhere so we'd have more stories of their adventures, but you cant' stand the ST for killing off the OT characters. Nice double standard. Are you really that stupid? Rogue One ended exactly where ANH begins. There's absolutely nowhere for those characters to go in the saga! What are they supposed to do? Remake the OT so that they can include those characters in there? Knowing you, you probably would propose something that stupid...
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 4, 2018 18:28:02 GMT
Oh, so it wasn't possible to just have be off somewhere else doing something else during ANH? They HAD to die? You're A-Okay with them killing off Jyn Erso and her group instead of leaving them alive elsewhere so we'd have more stories of their adventures, but you cant' stand the ST for killing off the OT characters. Nice double standard. Are you really that stupid? Rogue One ended exactly where ANH begins. There's absolutely nowhere for those characters to go in the saga! If fans thought it wouldn't be so bad for them to survive, then obviously some of them DID think there was somewhere else for them to go in the Saga. As opposed to the ST characters, who apparently don't deserve to be in ANY Saga.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 4, 2018 18:35:50 GMT
Are you really that stupid? Rogue One ended exactly where ANH begins. There's absolutely nowhere for those characters to go in the saga! If fans thought it wouldn't be so bad for them to survive, then obviously some of them DID think there was somewhere else for them to go in the Saga. As opposed to the ST characters, who apparently don't deserve to be in ANY Saga. Survive and do what with them? There's no way to put them into the OT. You're being an idiot.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 4, 2018 18:43:05 GMT
If fans thought it wouldn't be so bad for them to survive, then obviously some of them DID think there was somewhere else for them to go in the Saga. As opposed to the ST characters, who apparently don't deserve to be in ANY Saga. Survive and do what with them? There's no way to put them into the OT. You're being an idiot. Then no one should be thinking "Huh, I wish they hadn't killed off all of them" as opposed to Rey and Finns' "Why the Hell are we wasting time on these characters when Luke and Han and Leia should be fighting the First Order on their own without needing any help?"
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shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Apr 4, 2018 18:48:29 GMT
I have to disagree. It sounds like Johnson is just trying to blame everything on Abrams. Abrams didn't make him write the horrible storyline for Mark Hamill, fizzle out the antagonists, throw out all the mythology of the prior 8 movies, etc. It's all on Rian. It was his responsibility to make a story that compliments the other movies (especially Episode 7). He did not. He contradicted pretty much everything in Episode 7. When you're a writer continuing the story from someone else's work, it's your job to support what has already been written. I was surprised for a split-second since I know Rian worked on Breaking Bad - it seemed like he would know how to collaborate with others writing-wise. However, then I remembered that Johnson didn't actually write any episodes for Breaking Bad (Rian only directed). Rian Johnson is inexperienced at writing with others. I don't think Disney should have let him write on that grounds alone. You can't have amateurs trying to learn on the job. You make good points. Still, I have to somewhat disagree. Here's why? If you research the history of George Lucas - how wrote and made the OT from beginning to end... if you look at all of the collaborations he had to pull it off... you will NEVER hear one person he collaborated with say George Lucas gave them nothing to work with. He always provided at least some story or character points to work off of... some kind of concept to where he thought the story or characters were heading. Even when he did the prequels and his collaboration was mostly limited to production you could say the same thing about how Lucas did things. Watch any documentary or featurette on any movie. You will see that doing what Abrams did is just not normal. A storyteller who makes a story always has some kind of vision in mind. Especially if it is part of a series or sequels, there's some kind of concept as to where the story and characters are headed.The only time that you will find this is not the case is when there is a hiatus. In those cases usually (but not always) you have to start cold. Under those circumstances the preceding storyteller has either concluded their vision, or circumstances prevented from continuing and it's been so long that they've lost a vision for it. In those cases the next storyteller may try to confer with the previous one to try and get more insight. Or they may abandon any previous trends of previous work. (Notice that point just mentioned). They will start cold and go with their own personal perception and direction. But under those circumstances you are dealing with a hiatus and the new storyteller has had an extended period of time to figure out their own vision and "start over" (even though their making a sequel). You don't just give someone making a sequel nothing when they have 6 months or less to work with!(By contrast even Abrams had almost a year to come up with something based on what Michael Arndt gave him on his TFA script. And some people considered that pressured circumstances).One could argue that Abrams did in fact have a vision. He wrote scripts for Episode 8 and 9 but Disney/Rian abandoned his ideas for what we ended up getting for Episode 8...The fault really rests with Rian. If he didn't feel he could continue Abrams/Kasdan's work on 7 without abandoning/contradicting it, he should have just withdrawn from the project as a writer (deciding just to direct instead). Honestly, it sounds like Colin Trevorrow understood where Abrams was going with the story. It's a shame Disney fired him. Abrams and Kasdan actually asked Disney for more time in pre-production for Episode 7. They ended up getting an additional 5 or 6 months to work on everything. Originally it was going to be only 6 months. That's the only reason they got more time than Rian.
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