|
Post by summers8 on Dec 28, 2018 13:23:57 GMT
Fails and I will use. two movies to explain why DOFP and Back to the Future.
why are people hating on infifnty war time travel an not DOFP or Superman 1 or even Jumanji?
time travel has to do with content and story telling why infinity war is failing is the movie does not have the story and the stakes are not there also poor timing and shock value effect than substance. yes the point of time travel is to go back and change things. star trek anyone? but where it worked for dofp, back to the future, wizard of oz is this movie have inbuilt drama and the moments of the reverses had stakes and was not left for a while to make you start thinking about it which negates the death. infinity war felt random. a movie with no plot, one useless cgi fight scenes after the next and the villain snaps his finger and everything goes away. it feels very thin plotted, i think that is the reason it is getting criticism. also the way it ended. you know they will come back. poor writing. DOFP and back to the future had flow to make you think differently for each scene that we knew was going to be reversed by time travel unlike infinity war. when the mutants were dying in DOFP, I was focused on the dying not and wanted mystique to get her act together. also things were just so messed up and intense too since in DOFP we were shown the past and future simultaneously complex- yes. mcu cant do complex. when marty mcfly was getting erased in back to the future. I was saying holyshit. I didnt say I know he will come back in the end. Infinity war does not give you that moment like DOFP or back to the future did. also they chose to end it there which is more shock value than good writing. so we know the.... they will come back thinking starts to get more notice devaluing the entire film. its just mcu poor writing that hits them again. it is no DOFP or back to the future.
|
|
|
Post by hobowar on Dec 28, 2018 13:34:43 GMT
I don't... WHAT?
You've gone full retard again.
|
|
havenless
Sophomore
@havenless
Posts: 715
Likes: 311
|
Post by havenless on Dec 28, 2018 14:19:58 GMT
Fails and I will use. two movies to explain why DOFP and Back to the Future.
why are people hating on infifnty war time travel an not DOFP or Superman 1 or even Jumanji?
time travel has to do with content and story telling why infinity war is failing is the movie does not have the story and the stakes are not there also poor timing and shock value effect than substance. yes the point of time travel is to go back and change things. star trek anyone? but where it worked for dofp, back to the future, wizard of oz is this movie have inbuilt drama and the moments of the reverses had stakes and was not left for a while to make you start thinking about it which negates the death. infinity war felt fandom. a movie with no plot, one useless cgi fight scenes after the next and the villain snaps his finger and everything goes away. it feels very thin plotted, i think that is the reason it is getting criticism. also the way it ended. you know they will come back. poor writing. DOFP and back to the future had flow to make you think differently for each scene that we knew was going to be reversed by time travel unlike infinity war. when the mutants were dying in DOFP, I was focused on the dying not and wanted mysqitue ti get her act together. also things were just so messed up and intense too since in DOFP we were shown the past and future simultaneously complex- yes. mcu cant do complex. when marty mcfly was getting erased in back to the future. I was saying holyshit. I didnt say I know he will come back in the end. Infinity war does not give you that moment like DOFP or back to the future did. also they chose to end it there which is more shock value than good writing. so we know the.... they will come back thinking starts to get more notice devaluing the entire film. its just mcu poor writing that hits them again. it is no DOFP or back to the future. I don’t even understand what you’re trying to say.... Did you post this under the influence? You’re usually relatively coherent.
|
|
|
Post by James on Dec 28, 2018 14:58:27 GMT
Too Stupid; Didn’t Read
|
|
|
Post by Vassaggo on Dec 28, 2018 15:03:28 GMT
Fails and I will use. two movies to explain why DOFP and Back to the Future.
why are people hating on infifnty war time travel an not DOFP or Superman 1 or even Jumanji?
time travel has to do with content and story telling why infinity war is failing is the movie does not have the story and the stakes are not there also poor timing and shock value effect than substance. yes the point of time travel is to go back and change things. star trek anyone? but where it worked for dofp, back to the future, wizard of oz is this movie have inbuilt drama and the moments of the reverses had stakes and was not left for a while to make you start thinking about it which negates the death. infinity war felt fandom. a movie with no plot, one useless cgi fight scenes after the next and the villain snaps his finger and everything goes away. it feels very thin plotted, i think that is the reason it is getting criticism. also the way it ended. you know they will come back. poor writing. DOFP and back to the future had flow to make you think differently for each scene that we knew was going to be reversed by time travel unlike infinity war. when the mutants were dying in DOFP, I was focused on the dying not and wanted mysqitue ti get her act together. also things were just so messed up and intense too since in DOFP we were shown the past and future simultaneously complex- yes. mcu cant do complex. when marty mcfly was getting erased in back to the future. I was saying holyshit. I didnt say I know he will come back in the end. Infinity war does not give you that moment like DOFP or back to the future did. also they chose to end it there which is more shock value than good writing. so we know the.... they will come back thinking starts to get more notice devaluing the entire film. its just mcu poor writing that hits them again. it is no DOFP or back to the future. First of all we don't know for a Fact if they are going to use Time Travel to fix the snap. It's the prevalent speculation/opinion that they will use time travel. I see where you are comming from with your opinions on the matter, I just don't agree with a lot of them. I can see why people loved DofP and while I liked it I never could get over a few things. As you'll see below I LOVED, Truely LOVED First Class. DoFP just was a let down compared to First Class. Second to you it felt thin plotted, but to me I was amazed they balanced the story arcs of what 25+ characters and not just make it coherent but actually flow well. Third, if while watching DoFP and watching Future Mutants die you didn't think well this is going to be rectified in a few moments then I think you got caught up in the grandeur of the shots and the story causing you not to think. Those scenes were shot gloriously, but to me they were just to get the glory shot of Mutants dying. Those deaths meant nothing to me. This is compounded by the 2 timelines occurring simultaneously. As soon as they introduced sending Wolverine back to change the past everyone that I know of knew exactly we were going to get the Happy and I hate to say this Disney Cartoon ending. All the wrongs would be righted and all the good guys would be set on the right path. Where DoFP failed for me (I can take the fact that I knew the time travel was going to give us the happy ending) was the fact that the characters of X1, X2, and X3 never felt congruent with First Class. (or even possible to turn into their future selves) First Class was supposed to be a soft reboot and the only thing that tied it to the Original was a 30 second cameo by Hugh Jackmen and Rebecca Romijn in First Class. I can kind of see Prof X and Magneto from First Class maybe growing into the men of X1, X2, and X3. (it's a stretch for me though) The lynch pin of the movie Jennifer Lawrence's Mystique and her relationship with Professor X from First Class never felt right with X1. (Maybe it was a failure of imagination on my part, but Jennifer's Mystique never felt like any scenario would turn her into Rebecca's Mystique. Even with Rebecca's Cameo it felt like First Class took place in a completely different Universe and the 2 characters just shared a name and power set.) The movies felt cobbled together with a "wouldn't it be great if we could pull these two Era's together" gimmick. It felt forced and gimmicky. Jennifer Lawrence phoning it in DofP didn't help either. Apocalypse furthered this not just Jennifer phoning it in, but the feeling that these characters are way to far apart. I know the timeline changed, but Jean, Storm, Cyclops, Beast, and Nightcrawler further shows that gimmicky feel that these characters will never grow to be the characters we already know. And by using the same actors in the Post Script ending of DofP in the future, acting the same way they did in X2 (X3 for Beast) says that the kids in Apocalypse should grow into those Characters. There is a huge disconnect. And the gimmick of jumping decades is just blah. These reasons is why I find First Class to be the superior film. They handled everything deftly. Plot, Acting, Themes, Era, everything. I could've used a better actress for Emma, but Jones was serviceable. First Class is up there with X2 and X1 IMHO. Fourth, Marty in Back to the Future never felt like he was in real danger. Not once did I feel like he was going to truely fade into the ether of time. The only thing that held suspense was what would change now that George stood up for himself twice. Fifth, what Infinity War did deftly was subvert expectations in a different way. I knew going in that it was going the be the Empire Strikes Back of the MCU. I mean that just like Empire the bad guys win, no protagonist got what they wanted. In fact, I warned my family to gird themselves against it. I told them don't be surprised if this ending is sad. The subversion doesn't come from the fact they the good guys lost. It comes from the fact that the movie is framed to where Thanos is the protagonist. His is sympathetic. His plan is bat shit crazy, but if he's not a Unreliable Narrator then his actions comes from a good place. Getting the stones wasn't easy and took a toll on him. You see that he actually loved Gamora and it hurt him to his core to do what he did. He shows respect multiple times to the Avengers. When he could he spared them. As he doesn't see himself as evil. The movie is shot in a way that his journey at times looks heroic. The scene when the Avengers have Thanos subdued and are trying to get the Gauntlet off isn't shot to look like the bad guy is being defeated. It is shot and looks like a man with principles being brought down. Thanos is fighting the odds, pain and grief to do what he thinks is right. Starlord comes off as the prick. In Starlords grief he is beating a subdued character who can't fight back. You feel for Starlord, who wouldn't want to beat the fuck out of the man who killed the woman you loved, but plays out like Starlord is the villain in that scene. When Thor buries Stormbreaker into Thanos that shot doesn't look like a Villain being almost defeated. It shot to look like a Hero fighting to do what he believes is right. After it's done Thanos is rewarded with his happy ending. His contented smile expressed through grief of losing everything including his child looks like a Hero getting a well deserved rest. Finally, where you saw the deaths in the other movies as significant even though the time travel was going to fix it in moments, I felt that in the dusted characters. I knew Spiderman has a movie coming out after Part 4. We assume it's after the snap or at least that's my opinion. (Although it could take place before IW. I doubt it but it's a possibility. Just like my opinion of how they fix it will be Time Travel or Jumping to other Dimensions to get their Stones. Which kinda equals out to the same. Maybe they will subvert again and Avengers 4 fixes it in another way) Knowing all that still seeing Spidey begging for life at his Father Figure and Tony who has spent 2 movies trying not to see Spidey die, slowly seeing him fade just got me. The Russo's made me feel for a fucking CGI Raccoon losing his adoptive cgi tree teenage son. Seeing the crushing weight on Cap's shoulders when he realizes they lost the battle for Trillions upon Trillions of life forms with an "Oh God" was just great acting. I also like having the movie end there. If it were plotted differently and the Snap and the Fixing of the Snap happened in the same movie then it would feel contrived. I like that it gives us months to dig into the plot. To try and come up with different scenarios on what will happen. Giving us a break to think who will survive, who will be brought back etc. I think that might be the biggest difference between you and me. We are on different sides of a coin. Both of us seeing good acting, action, scenes, etc in different places. Like my Uncle told me 100's of times it's good to have different opinions. It would be a fucking wasteland of boredom if everyone agreed. (I just think if you would state your opinions as opinions more often then it would cut down on people exploding on you. Which even I have done.)
|
|
|
Post by lenlenlen1 on Dec 28, 2018 15:21:12 GMT
I don't... WHAT? You've gone full retard again. Dude, I love it when someone comes down hard on MCU. Not because I don't like MCU; on the contrary I love MCU. But rather because it rankles the MCU fanatics!
But in this case... I'm with you 99.9% He's definitely gone full on this time! I'm like...
|
|
|
Post by charzhino on Dec 28, 2018 15:39:46 GMT
You see that he actually loved Gamora and it hurt him to his core to do what he did. That is a pretty forced scene. It was pointed out in the cinema sins episode of IW and its hard to disagree with them. Thanos goes to a planet of Gamoras people and randomly picks her out and says she has great strength and takes her under his wing. No real reason is given and the emotional connection is pretty weak so when he sacrafices her on the clifftop, theres little resonance in his supposed pain because the backstory is rushed. And its more strange she seems very shocked when he picks her as the thing he loves for his sacrafice. Im sure everyone in the audience knew straight away soon as Red Skull mentioned the cost of the gem that Thanos was sacrificing Gamora.
|
|
|
Post by summers8 on Dec 28, 2018 15:47:26 GMT
Fails and I will use. two movies to explain why DOFP and Back to the Future.
why are people hating on infifnty war time travel an not DOFP or Superman 1 or even Jumanji?
time travel has to do with content and story telling why infinity war is failing is the movie does not have the story and the stakes are not there also poor timing and shock value effect than substance. yes the point of time travel is to go back and change things. star trek anyone? but where it worked for dofp, back to the future, wizard of oz is this movie have inbuilt drama and the moments of the reverses had stakes and was not left for a while to make you start thinking about it which negates the death. infinity war felt fandom. a movie with no plot, one useless cgi fight scenes after the next and the villain snaps his finger and everything goes away. it feels very thin plotted, i think that is the reason it is getting criticism. also the way it ended. you know they will come back. poor writing. DOFP and back to the future had flow to make you think differently for each scene that we knew was going to be reversed by time travel unlike infinity war. when the mutants were dying in DOFP, I was focused on the dying not and wanted mysqitue ti get her act together. also things were just so messed up and intense too since in DOFP we were shown the past and future simultaneously complex- yes. mcu cant do complex. when marty mcfly was getting erased in back to the future. I was saying holyshit. I didnt say I know he will come back in the end. Infinity war does not give you that moment like DOFP or back to the future did. also they chose to end it there which is more shock value than good writing. so we know the.... they will come back thinking starts to get more notice devaluing the entire film. its just mcu poor writing that hits them again. it is no DOFP or back to the future. First of all we don't know for a Fact if they are going to use Time Travel to fix the snap. It's the prevalent speculation/opinion that they will use time travel. I see where you are comming from with your opinions on the matter, I just don't agree with a lot of them. I can see why people loved DofP and while I liked it I never could get over a few things. As you'll see below I LOVED, Truely LOVED First Class. DoFP just was a let down compared to First Class. Second to you it felt thin plotted, but to me I was amazed they balanced the story arcs of what 25+ characters and not just make it coherent but actually flow well. Third, if while watching DoFP and watching Future Mutants die you didn't think well this is going to be rectified in a few moments then I think you got caught up in the grandeur of the shots and the story causing you not to think. Those scenes were shot gloriously, but to me they were just to get the glory shot of Mutants dying. Those deaths meant nothing to me. This is compounded by the 2 timelines occurring simultaneously. As soon as they introduced sending Wolverine back to change the past everyone that I know of knew exactly we were going to get the Happy and I hate to say this Disney Cartoon ending. All the wrongs would be righted and all the good guys would be set on the right path. Where DoFP failed for me (I can take the fact that I knew the time travel was going to give us the happy ending) was the fact that the characters of X1, X2, and X3 never felt congruent with First Class. (or even possible to turn into their future selves) First Class was supposed to be a soft reboot and the only thing that tied it to the Original was a 30 second cameo by Hugh Jackmen and Rebecca Romijn in First Class. I can kind of see Prof X and Magneto from First Class maybe growing into the men of X1, X2, and X3. (it's a stretch for me though) The lynch pin of the movie Jennifer Lawrence's Mystique and her relationship with Professor X from First Class never felt right with X1. (Maybe it was a failure of imagination on my part, but Jennifer's Mystique never felt like any scenario would turn her into Rebecca's Mystique. Even with Rebecca's Cameo it felt like First Class took place in a completely different Universe and the 2 characters just shared a name and power set.) The movies felt cobbled together with a "wouldn't it be great if we could pull these two Era's together" gimmick. It felt forced and gimmicky. Jennifer Lawrence phoning it in DofP didn't help either. Apocalypse furthered this not just Jennifer phoning it in, but the feeling that these characters are way to far apart. I know the timeline changed, but Jean, Storm, Cyclops, Beast, and Nightcrawler further shows that gimmicky feel that these characters will never grow to be the characters we already know. And by using the same actors in the Post Script ending of DofP in the future, acting the same way they did in X2 (X3 for Beast) says that the kids in Apocalypse should grow into those Characters. There is a huge disconnect. And the gimmick of jumping decades is just blah. These reasons is why I find First Class to be the superior film. They handled everything deftly. Plot, Acting, Themes, Era, everything. I could've used a better actress for Emma, but Jones was serviceable. First Class is up there with X2 and X1 IMHO. Fourth, Marty in Back to the Future never felt like he was in real danger. Not once did I feel like he was going to truely fade into the ether of time. The only thing that held suspense was what would change now that George stood up for himself twice. Fifth, what Infinity War did deftly was subvert expectations in a different way. I knew going in that it was going the be the Empire Strikes Back of the MCU. I mean that just like Empire the bad guys win, no protagonist got what they wanted. In fact, I warned my family to gird themselves against it. I told them don't be surprised if this ending is sad. The subversion doesn't come from the fact they the good guys lost. It comes from the fact that the movie is framed to where Thanos is the protagonist. His is sympathetic. His plan is bat shit crazy, but if he's not a Unreliable Narrator then his actions comes from a good place. Getting the stones wasn't easy and took a toll on him. You see that he actually loved Gamora and it hurt him to his core to do what he did. He shows respect multiple times to the Avengers. When he could he spared them. As he doesn't see himself as evil. The movie is shot in a way that his journey at times looks heroic. The scene when the Avengers have Thanos subdued and are trying to get the Gauntlet off isn't shot to look like the bad guy is being defeated. It is shot and looks like a man with principles being brought down. Thanos is fighting the odds, pain and grief to do what he thinks is right. Starlord comes off as the prick. In Starlords grief he is beating a subdued character who can't fight back. You feel for Starlord, who wouldn't want to beat the fuck out of the man who killed the woman you loved, but plays out like Starlord is the villain in that scene. When Thor buries Stormbreaker into Thanos that shot doesn't look like a Villain being almost defeated. It shot to look like a Hero fighting to do what he believes is right. After it's done Thanos is rewarded with his happy ending. His contented smile expressed through grief of losing everything including his child looks like a Hero getting a well deserved rest. Finally, where you saw the deaths in the other movies as significant even though the time travel was going to fix it in moments, I felt that in the dusted characters. I knew Spiderman has a movie coming out after Part 4. We assume it's after the snap or at least that's my opinion. (Although it could take place before IW. I doubt it but it's a possibility. Just like my opinion of how they fix it will be Time Travel or Jumping to other Dimensions to get their Stones. Which kinda equals out to the same. Maybe they will subvert again and Avengers 4 fixes it in another way) Knowing all that still seeing Spidey begging for life at his Father Figure and Tony who has spent 2 movies trying not to see Spidey die, slowly seeing him fade just got me. The Russo's made me feel for a fucking CGI Raccoon losing his adoptive cgi tree teenage son. Seeing the crushing weight on Cap's shoulders when he realizes they lost the battle for Trillions upon Trillions of life forms with an "Oh God" was just great acting. I also like having the movie end there. If it were plotted differently and the Snap and the Fixing of the Snap happened in the same movie then it would feel contrived. I like that it gives us months to dig into the plot. To try and come up with different scenarios on what will happen. Giving us a break to think who will survive, who will be brought back etc. I think that might be the biggest difference between you and me. We are on different sides of a coin. Both of us seeing good acting, action, scenes, etc in different places. Like my Uncle told me 100's of times it's good to have different opinions. It would be a fucking wasteland of boredom if everyone agreed. (I just think if you would state your opinions as opinions more often then it would cut down on people exploding on you. Which even I have done.) As a medicine to your bs. I will make it short. Considering you are the person who are the nerves to equate logan and tdk Oscar nom to any possible norm for black panther and worse try to argue with rotten tomatoes. LMAO . How is that working out when you consider most here have said Aquaman is better than half the mcu movies and has a lower rt score than all mcu films? see how you loose credibility? Shame you became an mcu fanatic, defending the bullishtness of MCU. FACTS.
1. Its has been confirmed they will use time travel for Avengers. The movie will be terrible not because of time travel but it will be terrible because it will be another cgi mess with no substance. 2. DOFP did not have a happy ending. The ending was questionable. Since in the end, the LAST line was the future was never truly set. And as we see in logan. Mutants still met their tragic end. no happy ending there. logam xavier, xmen. all gone. So typical of mcu fans Lie about another movie to make mcu look less bad. 4. JLAw phoned it in Apocalypse not DOFP. Infact DOFP was the film that showed how complex she is. There is no female character in comics that has been as complex as mystique was in DOFP outside of catwoman in TDKR and Batman Returns. As seen in 2014 you cant equate mystique's arc in DOFP to black widow in winter solider that had none. Lawrence is a great actress and it showed in DOFP she was praised for. Reason she was trashed in Apocalypse for not giving the phoned performance. These are critical facts. truthful opinions5. You are free to think first class is the superior movie however both movies (first class and dofp) are superior to infinity war and helped the genre to infinity war that harmed with it. 6. Mcfly was in real danger. It was more horrifying to see him fade or worse his mum falling in love with him, creepy as hell and scary too. leave it to mcu fans to say it was not because they cant say the same for infinity war. 7. infinity war deaths was shock value as said, its like writing on a cw show. maybe if the death had some juxtaposition story telling like DOFP. it would have been better. LOL..Look at mcu fans attacking DOFP and back to the future. really? this movies are compelling sci fi drama. they get respect for that alone. Infinity war cant since it is just cgi garbage. time travel or no time travel. next time listen to James Cameron, could help you be more honest.
|
|
|
Post by Vassaggo on Dec 28, 2018 15:53:07 GMT
You see that he actually loved Gamora and it hurt him to his core to do what he did. That is a pretty forced scene. It was pointed out in the cinema sins episode of IW and its hard to disagree with them. Thanos goes to a planet of Gamoras people and randomly picks her out and says she has great strength and takes her under his wing. No real reason is given and the emotional connection is pretty weak so when he sacrafices her on the clifftop, theres little resonance in his supposed pain because the backstory is rushed. And its more strange she seems very shocked when he picks her as the thing he loves for his sacrafice. Im sure everyone in the audience knew straight away soon as Red Skull mentioned the cost of the gem that Thanos was sacrificing Gamora. Eh. I will allow that it would've helped if in GotG 2 if some more ambiguity of Thanos and the 2 step daughters relationship was shown. Like how Gamora and Nebula's relationship wasn't just villain vs hero in GotG 1 and 2. I thought Gamora breaking down when she thought she killed Thanos during Reality Stone scene helped show that she did care for him. (that helps show the relationship was completely horrible) I thought the way the CGI was captured and shown of Thanos during the scene had a grievous/haunting look. Well as much as you can get at the point we are now with CGI capture. Which I got to say they are getting real well with it. After seeing it more than a few times, I still find the scene works. It doesn't capture emotion as much as Thanos' last scene were he is content, grieving, lost, and happy in the sun, though.
|
|
|
Post by sostie on Dec 28, 2018 15:53:34 GMT
It's ironic that you criticise Infinity War/Endgame for possibly using time travel to conclude the story, yet you have no problems with DOFP rebooting a whole franchise through time travel or resurrecting characters killed off in that film, through time travel!
|
|
|
Post by Hauntedknight87 on Dec 28, 2018 16:18:27 GMT
|
|
skribb
Sophomore
IMDb since June 2005
@skribb
Posts: 767
Likes: 204
|
Post by skribb on Dec 28, 2018 16:44:23 GMT
Fails and I will use. two movies to explain why DOFP and Back to the Future. why are people hating on infifnty war time travel an not DOFP or Superman 1 or even Jumanji? time travel has to do with content and story telling why infinity war is failing is the movie does not have the story and the stakes are not there also poor timing and shock value effect than substance. yes the point of time travel is to go back and change things. star trek anyone? but where it worked for dofp, back to the future, wizard of oz is this movie have inbuilt drama and the moments of the reverses had stakes and was not left for a while to make you start thinking about it which negates the death. infinity war felt random. a movie with no plot, one useless cgi fight scenes after the next and the villain snaps his finger and everything goes away. it feels very thin plotted, i think that is the reason it is getting criticism. also the way it ended. you know they will come back. poor writing. DOFP and back to the future had flow to make you think differently for each scene that we knew was going to be reversed by time travel unlike infinity war. when the mutants were dying in DOFP, I was focused on the dying not and wanted mystique to get her act together. also things were just so messed up and intense too since in DOFP we were shown the past and future simultaneously complex- yes. mcu cant do complex. when marty mcfly was getting erased in back to the future. I was saying holyshit. I didnt say I know he will come back in the end. Infinity war does not give you that moment like DOFP or back to the future did. also they chose to end it there which is more shock value than good writing. so we know the.... they will come back thinking starts to get more notice devaluing the entire film. its just mcu poor writing that hits them again. it is no DOFP or back to the future. yeah i get waht you're saying
|
|
|
Post by summers8 on Dec 28, 2018 17:05:41 GMT
It's ironic that you criticise Infinity War/Endgame for possibly using time travel to conclude the story, yet you have no problems with DOFP rebooting a whole franchise through time travel or resurrecting characters killed off in that film, through time travel! dofp reboot was based on alternate realities and even that, i have been a strong critic of them continuing movies after dofp and logan.unlike you mcu fans I am consistent in my criticisms
I always wanted a fresh reboot. but I am happy the final xmen movie is Logan since we know mcu xmen wont be consider real xmen movies.
|
|
|
Post by sostie on Dec 28, 2018 17:14:52 GMT
It's ironic that you criticise Infinity War/Endgame for possibly using time travel to conclude the story, yet you have no problems with DOFP rebooting a whole franchise through time travel or resurrecting characters killed off in that film, through time travel! dofp reboot was based on alternate realities and even that, i have been a strong critic of them continuing movies after dofp and logan.unlike you mcu fans I am consistent in my criticisms
I always wanted a fresh reboot. but I am happy the final xmen movie is Logan since we know mcu xmen wont be consider real xmen movies.
Give up with the assumptions...this "you MCU fan" is also an X-Men fan. Logan isn't the last X-Men film....What was Deadpool 2? What is Dark Phoenix? What is New Mutants?
|
|
|
Post by summers8 on Dec 28, 2018 17:29:38 GMT
dofp reboot was based on alternate realities and even that, i have been a strong critic of them continuing movies after dofp and logan.unlike you mcu fans I am consistent in my criticisms
I always wanted a fresh reboot. but I am happy the final xmen movie is Logan since we know mcu xmen wont be consider real xmen movies.
Give up with the assumptions...this "you MCU fan" is also an X-Men fan. Logan isn't the last X-Men film....What was Deadpool 2? What is Dark Phoenix? What is New Mutants? i dont think dark phoenix and new mutants will be released once the deal closes in jan 2019
for dark phoenix i understand as i never supported the film. it was too early. new mutants, disney cancelling it because it is horror is another sign for mcu xmen failure.
deadpool 2 was more like cracked in-universe.
the real end of xmen is logan jut like last jedi is the last real star wars movie.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 17:38:40 GMT
Give up with the assumptions...this "you MCU fan" is also an X-Men fan. Logan isn't the last X-Men film....What was Deadpool 2? What is Dark Phoenix? What is New Mutants? i dont think dark phoenix and new mutants will be released once the deal closes in jan 2019
for dark phoenix i understand as i never supported the film. it was too early. new mutants, disney cancelling it because it is horror is another sign for mcu xmen failure.
deadpool 2 was more like cracked in-universe.
the real end of xmen is logan jut like last jedi is the last real star wars movie.
The Last Jedi is the last real Star Wars movie? ?
|
|
|
Post by summers8 on Dec 28, 2018 17:45:47 GMT
i dont think dark phoenix and new mutants will be released once the deal closes in jan 2019
for dark phoenix i understand as i never supported the film. it was too early. new mutants, disney cancelling it because it is horror is another sign for mcu xmen failure.
deadpool 2 was more like cracked in-universe.
the real end of xmen is logan jut like last jedi is the last real star wars movie.
The Last Jedi is the last real Star Wars movie? ? yeah.
most dont take the new disney movies as canon. expect the same for mcu xmen and even worse.
|
|
|
Post by Vassaggo on Dec 28, 2018 18:18:10 GMT
As a medicine to your bs. I will make it short. Considering you are the person who are the nerves to equate logan and tdk Oscar nom to any possible norm for black panther and worse try to argue with rotten tomatoes. LMAO . Ok lets go back through this. My general opinion on Oscars are they aren't about merit. They haven't been in years or if ever. It is a circle jerk for an industry. There are always other factors in play. I can link you to multiple times I've said this. It's about business, emotions, campaigning, and capturing the Zeitgeist of the moment. Opinion 1: One of the factors that got Heath Ledger a nomination and win was his untimely death. It was framed in such a way to highlight his great performance. I believe, as in my opinion, that his performance is the closest that any comicbook/superhero movie has come to getting an oscar in the major awards and deserving it. The Media framed his performance as a tortured artist who literally died for his art. Opinion 2 One of the factors that got Logan a nomination was that Hugh Jackman said it was his last movie and that his character died. Hugh Jackman helped bring forth this Golden Age of Comic Books. He was a beloved Character and Actor who in 15+ years in 8 movies helped define an ERA of Cinema. I am of the opinion that if Hugh Jackman had 2 or 3 more movies on his contract and Logan didn't die then the movie and screenplay wouldn't have the punch it does. Opinion 3 One of the factors that got Black Panther it's award nominations now is that it's a movie that was Written, Directed and Starred mostly by Africans and AFrican Americans. It's the first large budgeted movie that has proven that that combination can work at the box office. That people will flock to it. It matched the US Cultural zeitgeist and is reaping the rewards. These statements in no way equate the quality of the 3 movies. It just points out 3 factors of which there are many, that have nothing to do with the quality of the movies that help push the 3 to award fame. I don't call the artificial boosters because all movies have boosters. No movie is seen in a vacuum during award season. All Studios frame movies with a narrative. I used Rotten Tomatoes % and Rating, IMDB Rating, and Award nominations as evidence of what movies were Critically and Audience Acclaimed. Barring me going and researching every Critic's review of a movie and every viewer of a movie how else am I supposed to define if a movie is Acclaimed or not. I could use Metacritic also but a lot of the Critics on Metacritic are the same ones on Rotten Tomatoes. And if you look at my statements I wasn't even using Rotten Tomatoes, IMDB and Award Nominations as evidence against Logan or TDK. I was rebutting your opinion that Winter Soldier was more Prestigious and Acclaimed than any other MCU Movie. The fucked up thing it's my opinion that Winter Soldier IS a better MOVIE than Black Panther, but the FACT remains if we are going to use words like Prestigious and Acclaimed then Winter Solider isn't the most Acclaimed or Prestigious. Prestigious: adjective inspiring respect and admiration; having high status. How do we quantify respect, admiration, or status for a movie? The only way I know how is to find out how the general public thought about the movie and how critics thought about the movie. I used Rotten Tomatoes to show critics rating and yes or no percentage. I used Rotten Tomatoes audience score, and IMDB public rating to show how the public felt about it. You can have a opinion that the Critics are biased to MCU movies, but critical review is part of the equation in finding respect, admiration and status. That's why the term CRITICALLY ACCLAIMED IS USED. In the scenario the "MCU Critic Bias" if it exists doesn't apply as I am comparing all MCU movies. The Bias would show itself in all the critics reviews for each movie. Acclaim: verb praise enthusiastically and publicly. To Honor. Praise is the act of showing respect. A synonym for Praise and Honor is to AWARD. This goes along with Critical and Audience Acclaim, but it's also slightly different. So I used the Award nom. count even though awards are mainly bullshit to show that other MCU movies garnered more awards nom than Winter Soldier. So lets Use Metacritic instead of Rotten Tomatoes. (Unless you are saying that even though I am comparing Critics views on all MCU movies that Critics have no part in praising a movie???) Winter Soldier Metacritic 70 out of 100. Winter Soldier Metacritic Audience Score 8.5 out of 10. Guardians of the Galaxy Metacritic 76 out of 100. Guardians of the Galaxy Metacritic Audience Score 8.5 out of 10. Iron-man Metacritic 79 out of 100 Iron-man Metacritic Audience Score 8.5 out of 10 Well what do you know Guardians of the Galaxy, Ironman is more Critically Acclaimed than Winter Soldier there too. When it comes to Audience Acclaim they are tied. Hell I agree that Aquaman, to me, is about right in the center of MCU. I never said that Critical Acclaim and rating was proof that a movie was good. Critics state their Opinion. If more Critics (and audience) Opinion is positive for a movie then by definition that movie is more prestigious and acclaimed. I used Critical Acclaim and Rating as proof of movies having more Acclaim than another. Acclaim doesn't make a movie better. It's not an opinion that Critics and General Population put more acclaim, honor, prestige, etc on MCU movies other than Winter Soldier. How they rate a movie is an opinion, reciting what they rated is a Fact. This means that Winter Solider isn't the most prestige, honored, awarded, rated, critically acclaimed MCU movie. Let me go simpler. Critic 1 rating = opinion, Critic 2 rating = opinion... Critic 100 rating = opinion. Now if we took all those ratings and averaged them the average rating is the average opinion of the 100 critics. Stating that 100 critic's rating averaged to 7.5 is a fact. That doesn't give credence to their individual or collective opinion it's just stating a fact. See the difference? Ok I will believe you that Time Travel has been confirmed just point me to a link where: Marvel Studios Executive saying they will be using time travel. or The Russo's saying they will be using time travel. or A video of raw footage that shows time travel will be used from End Game. Wait. Nevermind on the first two because it was CONFIRMED that the name of the MOVIE had never been said in a MCU movie by Russo's when people guessed End Game. And what do you know the name of the Movie is End Game. That phrase was said in at least 2 MCU movies AoU and IW. So unless you have a video showing definite use of time travel. Then no it hasn't been Confirmed. Listen to yourself. A sequel of a movie had a sad ending so therefore all the movies before it's endings are sad in retrospect. So do you hold off judging the sadness or happiness of an ending until a Studio stops making the series of Movies? A New Hope's ending was sad because Empire Strike Backs ending was sad? Well until Return of the Jedi's ending happened then Empire's ending magically became Happy and Hope's ending reverted back to happy. It was my opinion that Jennifer Phoned it in. I never said it was a fact. I said it felt like she phoned it in. Now Critics may have praised her in the role. I don't ever remember her being singled out in that movie. It may be true. I remember McAvoy, Jackman and Fastbender being praised, but not her. If that's the case then bully for them. In my opinion she felt disconnected, drab, and phoning it in. And you can feel free to think that FC and DoFP are Superior to Infinity War. That's your opinion it's no greater or lesser than my Opinion. I think First Class is Superior to Infinity War and Infinity War is Superior to DoFP. Your opinion is just as valid as my opinion when it comes to what Infinity War did for Comic Book Movies. We think the opposite. (I can point to the sustained high praise To you it was real danger. To me it wasn't. There was never a part of me that thought that Marty McFly the main character of a Family Comedy Movie in the 80's was ever going to die. This is your strongest opinion to me. I don't agree with it, but I can relate to your opinion. There was planned shock in the deaths there is no denying that. The Juxtaposition that took place of the devastation of the Sentinels and the Hate they represent vs the Mutants choosing Mercy to the people who would eventually destroy them helps to frame the future deaths. I don't think it gives the future deaths more meaning or the belief the deaths would stick, but there was a great comparison to each other. Like the Dusted Deaths I never thought the Future Deaths would stick. I thought the simple dignity that Charles and Eric had at the end when they were about to temporarily die really tugged at the heart strings. The rest of the deaths I wasn't that emotionally invested. There was no moment for that to happen. Except when Kitty looked for Bobby and looked crest fallen. I can't remember if that was in the Theatrical Cut or just the Rogue Cut though. Deaths in general don't mean much when you know it's going to be reversed. What does mean a lot is moments between characters before they are reversed. I just thought there were more and better moments at the end of IW. Those aren't attacks. Most are just my opinions or me using objective facts to support my opinions. The funny thing you call me doing this as attacks. I want to believe all of us here are just really passionate about what we like and dislike. I try to look at your post through that prism, but sometimes you make that hard. I think I will listen to James Cameron especially when he says he loves the movies. I will also agree that there needs to be diverse Sci-Fi and Sci-Fantasy out there. I think there is enough room out there for more now with 700+ movies made per year.
|
|
|
Post by poutinep on Dec 28, 2018 18:27:22 GMT
Why are you complaining about something that hasn't even happened? We don't know if they'll use time travel. We don't know how they'll use time travel if they do.
|
|
|
Post by summers8 on Dec 28, 2018 19:17:35 GMT
As a medicine to your bs. I will make it short. Considering you are the person who are the nerves to equate logan and tdk Oscar nom to any possible norm for black panther and worse try to argue with rotten tomatoes. LMAO . Ok lets go back through this. My general opinion on Oscars are they aren't about merit. They haven't been in years or if ever. It is a circle jerk for an industry. There are always other factors in play. I can link you to multiple times I've said this. It's about business, emotions, campaigning, and capturing the Zeitgeist of the moment. Opinion 1: One of the factors that got Heath Ledger a nomination and win was his untimely death. It was framed in such a way to highlight his great performance. I believe, as in my opinion, that his performance is the closest that any comicbook/superhero movie has come to getting an oscar in the major awards and deserving it. The Media framed his performance as a tortured artist who literally died for his art. Opinion 2 One of the factors that got Logan a nomination was that Hugh Jackman said it was his last movie and that his character died. Hugh Jackman helped bring forth this Golden Age of Comic Books. He was a beloved Character and Actor who in 15+ years in 8 movies helped define an ERA of Cinema. I am of the opinion that if Hugh Jackman had 2 or 3 more movies on his contract and Logan didn't die then the movie and screenplay wouldn't have the punch it does. Opinion 3 One of the factors that got Black Panther it's award nominations now is that it's a movie that was Written, Directed and Starred mostly by Africans and AFrican Americans. It's the first large budgeted movie that has proven that that combination can work at the box office. That people will flock to it. It matched the US Cultural zeitgeist and is reaping the rewards. These statements in no way equate the quality of the 3 movies. It just points out 3 factors of which there are many, that have nothing to do with the quality of the movies that help push the 3 to award fame. I don't call the artificial boosters because all movies have boosters. No movie is seen in a vacuum during award season. All Studios frame movies with a narrative. I used Rotten Tomatoes % and Rating, IMDB Rating, and Award nominations as evidence of what movies were Critically and Audience Acclaimed. Barring me going and researching every Critic's review of a movie and every viewer of a movie how else am I supposed to define if a movie is Acclaimed or not. I could use Metacritic also but a lot of the Critics on Metacritic are the same ones on Rotten Tomatoes. And if you look at my statements I wasn't even using Rotten Tomatoes, IMDB and Award Nominations as evidence against Logan or TDK. I was rebutting your opinion that Winter Soldier was more Prestigious and Acclaimed than any other MCU Movie. The fucked up thing it's my opinion that Winter Soldier IS a better MOVIE than Black Panther, but the FACT remains if we are going to use words like Prestigious and Acclaimed then Winter Solider isn't the most Acclaimed or Prestigious. Prestigious: adjective inspiring respect and admiration; having high status. How do we quantify respect, admiration, or status for a movie? The only way I know how is to find out how the general public thought about the movie and how critics thought about the movie. I used Rotten Tomatoes to show critics rating and yes or no percentage. I used Rotten Tomatoes audience score, and IMDB public rating to show how the public felt about it. You can have a opinion that the Critics are biased to MCU movies, but critical review is part of the equation in finding respect, admiration and status. That's why the term CRITICALLY ACCLAIMED IS USED. In the scenario the "MCU Critic Bias" if it exists doesn't apply as I am comparing all MCU movies. The Bias would show itself in all the critics reviews for each movie. Acclaim: verb praise enthusiastically and publicly. To Honor. Praise is the act of showing respect. A synonym for Praise and Honor is to AWARD. This goes along with Critical and Audience Acclaim, but it's also slightly different. So I used the Award nom. count even though awards are mainly bullshit to show that other MCU movies garnered more awards nom than Winter Soldier. So lets Use Metacritic instead of Rotten Tomatoes. (Unless you are saying that even though I am comparing Critics views on all MCU movies that Critics have no part in praising a movie???) Winter Soldier Metacritic 70 out of 100. Winter Soldier Metacritic Audience Score 8.5 out of 10. Guardians of the Galaxy Metacritic 76 out of 100. Guardians of the Galaxy Metacritic Audience Score 8.5 out of 10. Iron-man Metacritic 79 out of 100 Iron-man Metacritic Audience Score 8.5 out of 10 Well what do you know Guardians of the Galaxy, Ironman is more Critically Acclaimed than Winter Soldier there too. When it comes to Audience Acclaim they are tied. Hell I agree that Aquaman, to me, is about right in the center of MCU. I never said that Critical Acclaim and rating was proof that a movie was good. Critics state their Opinion. If more Critics (and audience) Opinion is positive for a movie then by definition that movie is more prestigious and acclaimed. I used Critical Acclaim and Rating as proof of movies having more Acclaim than another. Acclaim doesn't make a movie better. It's not an opinion that Critics and General Population put more acclaim, honor, prestige, etc on MCU movies other than Winter Soldier. How they rate a movie is an opinion, reciting what they rated is a Fact. This means that Winter Solider isn't the most prestige, honored, awarded, rated, critically acclaimed MCU movie. Let me go simpler. Critic 1 rating = opinion, Critic 2 rating = opinion... Critic 100 rating = opinion. Now if we took all those ratings and averaged them the average rating is the average opinion of the 100 critics. Stating that 100 critic's rating averaged to 7.5 is a fact. That doesn't give credence to their individual or collective opinion it's just stating a fact. See the difference? Ok I will believe you that Time Travel has been confirmed just point me to a link where: Marvel Studios Executive saying they will be using time travel. or The Russo's saying they will be using time travel. or A video of raw footage that shows time travel will be used from End Game. Wait. Nevermind on the first two because it was CONFIRMED that the name of the MOVIE had never been said in a MCU movie by Russo's when people guessed End Game. And what do you know the name of the Movie is End Game. That phrase was said in at least 2 MCU movies AoU and IW. So unless you have a video showing definite use of time travel. Then no it hasn't been Confirmed. Listen to yourself. A sequel of a movie had a sad ending so therefore all the movies before it's endings are sad in retrospect. So do you hold off judging the sadness or happiness of an ending until a Studio stops making the series of Movies? A New Hope's ending was sad because Empire Strike Backs ending was sad? Well until Return of the Jedi's ending happened then Empire's ending magically became Happy and Hope's ending reverted back to happy. It was my opinion that Jennifer Phoned it in. I never said it was a fact. I said it felt like she phoned it in. Now Critics may have praised her in the role. I don't ever remember her being singled out in that movie. It may be true. I remember McAvoy, Jackman and Fastbender being praised, but not her. If that's the case then bully for them. In my opinion she felt disconnected, drab, and phoning it in. And you can feel free to think that FC and DoFP are Superior to Infinity War. That's your opinion it's no greater or lesser than my Opinion. I think First Class is Superior to Infinity War and Infinity War is Superior to DoFP. Your opinion is just as valid as my opinion when it comes to what Infinity War did for Comic Book Movies. We think the opposite. (I can point to the sustained high praise To you it was real danger. To me it wasn't. There was never a part of me that thought that Marty McFly the main character of a Family Comedy Movie in the 80's was ever going to die. This is your strongest opinion to me. I don't agree with it, but I can relate to your opinion. There was planned shock in the deaths there is no denying that. The Juxtaposition that took place of the devastation of the Sentinels and the Hate they represent vs the Mutants choosing Mercy to the people who would eventually destroy them helps to frame the future deaths. I don't think it gives the future deaths more meaning or the belief the deaths would stick, but there was a great comparison to each other. Like the Dusted Deaths I never thought the Future Deaths would stick. I thought the simple dignity that Charles and Eric had at the end when they were about to temporarily die really tugged at the heart strings. The rest of the deaths I wasn't that emotionally invested. There was no moment for that to happen. Except when Kitty looked for Bobby and looked crest fallen. I can't remember if that was in the Theatrical Cut or just the Rogue Cut though. Deaths in general don't mean much when you know it's going to be reversed. What does mean a lot is moments between characters before they are reversed. I just thought there were more and better moments at the end of IW. Those aren't attacks. Most are just my opinions or me using objective facts to support my opinions. The funny thing you call me doing this as attacks. I want to believe all of us here are just really passionate about what we like and dislike. I try to look at your post through that prism, but sometimes you make that hard. I think I will listen to James Cameron especially when he says he loves the movies. I will also agree that there needs to be diverse Sci-Fi and Sci-Fantasy out there. I think there is enough room out there for more now with 700+ movies made per year. Your opinions for Oscars do not change the truth some movies earn it on merit. Black Panther wont and that is facts not opinions. The media framed ledger? At least ledger deserved it. Black panther doesn’t.. Long story short. Film quality. Logan and tdk are superior to black panther. Cool that you think GOTG and iron man are more acclaimed as winter solider. As long you also agree iron man 3 is more acclaimed than forrest gump and gladiator. I much rather agree with martin Scorsese on how to judge acclaimed movies not a mcu fan that knows nothing. Time travel for avenger’ engcrap? Sure. Make sense. I am not against time travel but I am against bad time travel movie as endgame will be. www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/1056155/Avengers-4-trailer-Avengers-Endgame-trailer-time-travel-Ant-Man-Quantum-Realmalso, respect the classic like back to the future. Dont hate it because it will be superior to infinity war endcrap. hm. Logan was the ending to the main universe . was the ending happy? That is no. so you lied when you said DOFP had an happy ending that was not true because the ending said the future is not set. You cant argue with the facts of what happened in the film the overall ending to star wars was happy and optimistic Period, its your opinon jlaw phoned it in . That is the opinions of mcu fans who are desperate to attack DOFP because it killed mcu movies in 2014 and expose mcu for the kiddie garbage fraud toy commericalthey are. Thankfully honest film criticism can speak for itself. In the end mcu fans cant name one mcu female as complex and 3 dimensional as mystique. Let that fact sink in.
oh and she was praised as well because she is part of the entire cast. many critics single her out for playing such a complex character. She was the most complex character in the film since she was not as evil as eric or as good as Charles. She was the middle man. LMAOO. WOW. There you have it, mcu fans in full force.they think infinity is Superior to dofp. Please get me james Cameron to school you folks. or Let me dumb it down. DOFP= heavy story telling socially themed character drama with some sophisticated special effects Infinity war = cartoonish action driven cgi film for mostly 98% with no actual plot. Sure infnity war is better. Please dont ever put dofp and IW in the same sentence again. You cant compare DOFP a movie that was called the best comic drama since tdk to IW one of the worst movies of the year hated by many film makers and long time comic fans for lack of substance. The genre cant take that sickness.
|
|