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Post by stargazer1682 on Jun 10, 2018 2:09:39 GMT
Personally I think Henry Cavill's Superman is maybe ranked too high on this list, but otherwise I generally approve.
It is interesting though, when posting a reply about the ubiquity of Batman in live action in another thread, I noted just how present Superman has been over the years, especially on TV; and it later occurred to me that, with the exception of the 60s, each decade had their own take/actor for Superman since the 40s. Some decades more than one.
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Post by BexxyJ on Jun 11, 2018 13:20:47 GMT
Dean Cain and Tom Wells were the best. Christopher Reeves wasn't bad but he went mad and jumped out a window thinking he could fly and had to spend the rest of his life in a wheelchair.
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Post by stargazer1682 on Jun 11, 2018 15:05:04 GMT
Dean Cain and Tom Wells were the best. Christopher Reeves wasn't bad but he went mad and jumped out a window thinking he could fly and had to spend the rest of his life in a wheelchair. You're partly thinking of George Reeves, though even then George Reeves didn't actually jump out a window, which is just an urban legend; he purportedly shot himself, with at least some level of suspicion he was murdered. Christopher Reeve was thrown from his horse during a competition, landing in such a way as to leave him a quadriplegic. In spite of what may have been a suicide, George Reeves really was a good Superman; any chance I've had to watch his Superman series, I have and generally enjoy it. Even though it was the 50s and a children's series, it was much more mature than you'd expect; and some of the characterizations that get mocked now, like his disguise or secret identity, weren't the same then. Lois and Jimmy often suspected Clark was Superman and he knew it, but they could never prove Clark had anything more than a passing resemblance to Superman. Being seen without his glasses meant nothing. His "heat vision" was actually the physical effects of applying his x-ray vision to objects that would react to x-rays by heating up. Lois, among others, were regularly shit at and threatened with guns - again, in a kids show. And effects weren't anything like they are now; like they talk about in the video, Kirk Allen's Superman turned into a cartoon to fly. George Reeves laid on a platform to dressed to blend in with the sky backdrop, but being a physical actor always wanting to give the audience more, he worked it out with the show runners where they would setup the camera low to the ground, with a springboard board placed right in front of it, so he could run towards the camera, leap and do a summersault over the camera and make it look like he was launching into the air to fly. It was all pretty thankless though; the role that brought him to nationally prominence also severely damaged his career. He was originally intended to play a fairly significant role in From Here to Eternity, and shot all the scenes, but when early test audiences kept commenting on seeing Superman on screen every time he appeared the studio chose to cut him almost entirely from the film; leaving him only those scenes where it was absolutely necessary to the rest of the plot. This in spite of a promising career a decade or so earlier when he got his big start in Gone with the Wind, before having to put his acting career on hold to fight in World War II. Things started to look better when George began exploring directing. I believe he did direct a couple of episodes of Superman prior to its cancellation, and had been slated to direct even more the following year had it not been canceled. My apologies for the rambling history lesson of a reply. I'm not even old enough to have been alive when George Reeves was alive, let alone to have seen his Superman when it originally aired, but there's something about his story that's always intrigued me; especially the "mystery" and debate surrounding his death and whether or not he actually killed himself. But also just his life in general was remarkable, if albeit tragic; he dated a married woman whose husband had ties to the mob - but it was a relationship of mutual understanding and approval by the husband, who wanted his wife to be happy and be with someone that could fulfill her needs in ways couldn't or wouldn't. It was only the fact that George ended that relationship and became engaged to another, much younger woman (and by some account sending his ex off the deep end) that spurred theories that George was victim of either his ex's scorn or her husband's, among other theories. I don't believe he ever knew his father, and his relationship with his mother was a rocky one. He was a high functioning alcoholic, enabled by his married girlfriend who, purportedly would bring his lunch to the set inside a martini shaker. Him getting drunk never shutdown production, by some account you could never tell he was drunk except for his eyes drooping slightly and he might be a slower on the uptake, but they still knew his best work was usually earlier in the day. His career prospects after Superman weren't great, which fed the idea of depression, in spite of him being engaged, but on the flip side he had prospects; he was getting into exhibition wrestling and was trying to get projects he would direct off the ground, and there was indication, I believe that Superman would be brought back for another season after all, which was a double edged sword. The only three people besides George, who were in the house the night he died gave stories that regularly changed; including one account, later denied, by his fiancé that she somehow knew or predicted that he was going upstairs to kill himself, yet neither she nor anyone else did anything about it (which would ostensibly be why it was later denied she ever said it). His first autopsy was, again anecdotally, mishandled and failed to do tests that might have better identified the exact forensics of what happened.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2018 13:12:54 GMT
Dean Cain and Tom Wells were the best. Christopher Reeves wasn't bad but he went mad and jumped out a window thinking he could fly and had to spend the rest of his life in a wheelchair. You're partly thinking of George Reeves, though even then George Reeves didn't actually jump out a window, which is just an urban legend; he purportedly shot himself, with at least some level of suspicion he was murdered. Christopher Reeve was thrown from his horse during a competition, landing in such a way as to leave him a quadriplegic. In spite of what may have been a suicide, George Reeves really was a good Superman; any chance I've had to watch his Superman series, I have and generally enjoy it. Even though it was the 50s and a children's series, it was much more mature than you'd expect; and some of the characterizations that get mocked now, like his disguise or secret identity, weren't the same then. Lois and Jimmy often suspected Clark was Superman and he knew it, but they could never prove Clark had anything more than a passing resemblance to Superman. Being seen without his glasses meant nothing. His "heat vision" was actually the physical effects of applying his x-ray vision to objects that would react to x-rays by heating up. Lois, among others, were regularly shit at and threatened with guns - again, in a kids show. And effects weren't anything like they are now; like they talk about in the video, Kirk Allen's Superman turned into a cartoon to fly. George Reeves laid on a platform to dressed to blend in with the sky backdrop, but being a physical actor always wanting to give the audience more, he worked it out with the show runners where they would setup the camera low to the ground, with a springboard board placed right in front of it, so he could run towards the camera, leap and do a summersault over the camera and make it look like he was launching into the air to fly. It was all pretty thankless though; the role that brought him to nationally prominence also severely damaged his career. He was originally intended to play a fairly significant role in From Here to Eternity, and shot all the scenes, but when early test audiences kept commenting on seeing Superman on screen every time he appeared the studio chose to cut him almost entirely from the film; leaving him only those scenes where it was absolutely necessary to the rest of the plot. This in spite of a promising career a decade or so earlier when he got his big start in Gone with the Wind, before having to put his acting career on hold to fight in World War II. Things started to look better when George began exploring directing. I believe he did direct a couple of episodes of Superman prior to its cancellation, and had been slated to direct even more the following year had it not been canceled. My apologies for the rambling history lesson of a reply. I'm not even old enough to have been alive when George Reeves was alive, let alone to have seen his Superman when it originally aired, but there's something about his story that's always intrigued me; especially the "mystery" and debate surrounding his death and whether or not he actually killed himself. But also just his life in general was remarkable, if albeit tragic; he dated a married woman whose husband had ties to the mob - but it was a relationship of mutual understanding and approval by the husband, who wanted his wife to be happy and be with someone that could fulfill her needs in ways couldn't or wouldn't. It was only the fact that George ended that relationship and became engaged to another, much younger woman (and by some account sending his ex off the deep end) that spurred theories that George was victim of either his ex's scorn or her husband's, among other theories. I don't believe he ever knew his father, and his relationship with his mother was a rocky one. He was a high functioning alcoholic, enabled by his married girlfriend who, purportedly would bring his lunch to the set inside a martini shaker. Him getting drunk never shutdown production, by some account you could never tell he was drunk except for his eyes drooping slightly and he might be a slower on the uptake, but they still knew his best work was usually earlier in the day. His career prospects after Superman weren't great, which fed the idea of depression, in spite of him being engaged, but on the flip side he had prospects; he was getting into exhibition wrestling and was trying to get projects he would direct off the ground, and there was indication, I believe that Superman would be brought back for another season after all, which was a double edged sword. The only three people besides George, who were in the house the night he died gave stories that regularly changed; including one account, later denied, by his fiancé that she somehow knew or predicted that he was going upstairs to kill himself, yet neither she nor anyone else did anything about it (which would ostensibly be why it was later denied she ever said it). His first autopsy was, again anecdotally, mishandled and failed to do tests that might have better identified the exact forensics of what happened. Wow. That is a very insightful post Stargazzer1682. I am impressed with how much you know about George Reeves. I remember watching the George Reeves 'Superman' TV show years ago and it was different than any of the other 'Superman' adaptions and didn't have Lex Luthor in it but it has been so long since I have seen it now I don't remember if they had any of the other villains from the comic books in it. Christopher Reeve (not Reeves - I always found it funny how their last names were so similar) was indeed injured and paralysed when he was thrown from a horse and it was a shame that happened to him 'cause I would have liked to have seen him play Superman one more time and if he hadn't been paralysed I think he would have 'cause he loved the character and appeared in a few episodes of 'Smallville.' 'Superman 3 and 4' were the two worst Superman movies in my opinion but that wasn't his fault.
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Post by General Kenobi on Jun 13, 2018 14:02:24 GMT
Christopher Reeve was an amazing Superman. he always turned in a top notch performance, even if the rest of the film wasn't up to snuff. His accident showed he was a superman in real life too, continuing to act and doing a lot for research into spinal injuries.
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Post by Larcen26 on Jun 14, 2018 17:46:17 GMT
Christopher Reeve was an amazing Superman. he always turned in a top notch performance, even if the rest of the film wasn't up to snuff. His accident showed he was a superman in real life too, continuing to act and doing a lot for research into spinal injuries. I completely agree. He is near perfect.Completely disagree. The Donner Superman is near perfect in just about every way. Plus, it did things that would have been insane variations nowadays...They killed Lois Lane! Luthor wasn't bald!
They completely discredited every criticism that Superman isn't interesting because he is too powerful.
It shows that Superman has every weakness that humans have. At least every weakness that counts. Physical weakness is incidental to a character's vulnerability. Luthor beats Superman entirely, and doesn't really even need Kryptonite. Luthor beats Superman so soundly and entirely that they have to create an entirely unknown power with no basis in fact as a massive deus ex machina in order for Superman to come out on top.
Donner's Superman creates a Clark Kent that is a complete disguise for Kal El. Even if someone sees a passing resemblance, Clark is weaker, smaller, shorter, dumber, more awkward...
Could do without "Can you read my mind" but it's a small criticism since the score is so fantastic.
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Post by General Kenobi on Jun 14, 2018 18:46:47 GMT
Sorry. I wasn't knocking the original Donner Superman. Because as far as I am concerned that is a flawless movie. I was referring to Superman III and Superman IV: The Quest for Peace. But my wording did not make that clear at all.
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Post by Larcen26 on Jun 14, 2018 19:13:45 GMT
Sorry. I wasn't knocking the original Donner Superman. Because as far as I am concerned that is a flawless movie. I was referring to Superman III and Superman IV: The Quest for Peace. But my wording did not make that clear at all. Ah. Yes. They were terrible. Though I have a soft spot for certain sequences in Superman 3. Drunk Richard Pryor, The Junkyard fight was great if pointless, a lot of the Smallville stuff was nice.
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Post by stargazer1682 on Jun 14, 2018 19:59:23 GMT
Maybe I'm just jaded from years of debating users on the old IMDB Smallville board about Superman mythology vs. the Christopher Reeve version of Superman, but those movies, while decent at the time, have lost their luster for me. There's still a lot of good there, but damn it got annoying when people were expecting Jonathan to die, just because he died in the movie; which made him actually dying even more infuriating. "Kneel before Zod," has gotten way too overused in the last 40 years, in Superman lore. Though I will give props to Krypton for being able to take that and bring it back around and make it work again. And I hate the Fortress of Solitude as this monstrosity of random collection of spikes without form or function. It was fine for that movie, but I more so hate how it's become the de facto appearance of the Fortress in subsequent live action takes on Superman. Even freaking Supergirl can't get past it now.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2018 6:43:19 GMT
Maybe I'm just jaded from years of debating users on the old IMDB Smallville board about Superman mythology vs. the Christopher Reeve version of Superman, but those movies, while decent at the time, have lost their luster for me. There's still a lot of good there, but damn it got annoying when people were expecting Jonathan to die, just because he died in the movie; which made him actually dying even more infuriating. "Kneel before Zod," has gotten way too overused in the last 40 years, in Superman lore. Though I will give props to Krypton for being able to take that and bring it back around and make it work again. And I hate the Fortress of Solitude as this monstrosity of random collection of spikes without form or function. It was fine for that movie, but I more so hate how it's become the de facto appearance of the Fortress in subsequent live action takes on Superman. Even freaking Supergirl can't get past it now. What did you think of the writers of 'Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman' keeping Jonathan alive? I remember a lot of fans were expecting him to die in that show too but they kept Jonathan alive for the entire series and Martha and him were season regulars. We have talked about their version of Jimmy Olsen on here before but I personally think their version of Perry White was the best and I liked his obsession with Elvis, his Father/ Son relationship with Jimmy Olsen and how he would always talk about Alice but you would only get to see the back of her or her from the bottom and never got to see her face. 'Lois and Clark' changed a lot of the Superman mythos and they didn't have the Fotress of Solitude to my memory and they had Lex Luthor with hair too (he was bald when he returned later) and he was in love with Lois. They almost got married in the first season but he was exposed as being a criminal and then he returned and tried to kidnap Lois a few times including once when she had no memory and he had a Lois clone that ate frogs. I will never forget the episode where Lois ate a frog 'cause I was wondering what the hell was wrong with her and I had to look away.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2018 6:47:55 GMT
Christopher Reeve was an amazing Superman. he always turned in a top notch performance, even if the rest of the film wasn't up to snuff. His accident showed he was a superman in real life too, continuing to act and doing a lot for research into spinal injuries. Yes. He was. It sucks that we never got to see him go up against some of Superman's other villains in movies 'cause DC wouldn't let them use the characters and I read 'Superman 3' was supposed to have Braniac as the main villain but they ended up going with a silly super computer instead when DC blocked them from using the character. I also read Nuclear Man was originally going to be Imperiex.
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Post by stargazer1682 on Jun 18, 2018 16:07:03 GMT
Maybe I'm just jaded from years of debating users on the old IMDB Smallville board about Superman mythology vs. the Christopher Reeve version of Superman, but those movies, while decent at the time, have lost their luster for me. There's still a lot of good there, but damn it got annoying when people were expecting Jonathan to die, just because he died in the movie; which made him actually dying even more infuriating. "Kneel before Zod," has gotten way too overused in the last 40 years, in Superman lore. Though I will give props to Krypton for being able to take that and bring it back around and make it work again. And I hate the Fortress of Solitude as this monstrosity of random collection of spikes without form or function. It was fine for that movie, but I more so hate how it's become the de facto appearance of the Fortress in subsequent live action takes on Superman. Even freaking Supergirl can't get past it now. What did you think of the writers of 'Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman' keeping Jonathan alive? I remember a lot of fans were expecting him to die in that show too but they kept Jonathan alive for the entire series and Martha and him were season regulars. We have talked about their version of Jimmy Olsen on here before but I personally think their version of Perry White was the best and I liked his obsession with Elvis, his Father/ Son relationship with Jimmy Olsen and how he would always talk about Alice but you would only get to see the back of her or her from the bottom and never got to see her face. 'Lois and Clark' changed a lot of the Superman mythos and they didn't have the Fotress of Solitude to my memory and they had Lex Luthor with hair too (he was bald when he returned later) and he was in love with Lois. They almost got married in the first season but he was exposed as being a criminal and then he returned and tried to kidnap Lois a few times including once when she had no memory and he had a Lois clone that ate frogs. I will never forget the episode where Lois ate a frog 'cause I was wondering what the hell was wrong with her and I had to look away. I wasn't fully engrossed in the Superman mythos to to really know what was correct or incongruent when originally watching Lois and Clark; though by that time in the comics Ma and Pa Kent were alive and well in the comics too, so it's not like they were out in the of ne with some of that. In hindsight I love that they were both alive, because they played vital roles for Clark as his touchstone to humanity. You can easily understand how he grows up to be the man he is, in spite of being essentially a god, with parents like that. This in Stark contrast to the depiction of the Kents, namely Jonathan, in MoS. I've long thought it would be great to see a take on Superman that took the Long view of his history and have him introduced to the world in 1938, just like in the comics; and then weave him and his related characters through history (alternatively, consider the implications of conversational adaptations of no Superman and his influence on pop culture for majority of the 20th century, when only just appears recently). Part of this, of course, is the reality that the Kents would definitely have passed along time before the present, along with a lot of people Clark has known in such a long life. To that end, I think there'd be some good potential in one of his encounters with Mxyzptlk, if Mxy decides to give his long time adversary a gift - perhaps at a moment where Supes is particularly low - by bringing back his parents. Loved Lois and Clark's take on Perry. Did Lex; John Shea was great in the role, even if he didn't have the conventional look. The show wasn't quite the same after he left. His returns never felt right either. One thing I've found interesting is how each new take on Lex is almost essentially the son of the previous version. Not having seen Batman vs Superman, I don't know if that still tracks with their Lex, and we don't know that much about Supergirl's Lex or Lionel, but it definitely held up through Smallville. So you have Michael's Lex in Smallville, who grew up as a rich kid with the likes of Lionel, ruthless businessman as a father; who, if memory serves, may have killed his two bit criminal father for insurance money that helped him start his financial empire. On Lois and Clark, Lex was the ruthless business man who had killed his two bit criminal father for insurance money that allowed him to start his financial empire. And then with the Reeve movies Lex was a two bit criminal (self-destructive criminal mastermind). During the run of Smallville, a pipedream I had was to see a crossover with past versions of Clark and Lex; where Lionel and the Lex from Lois and Clark get along swimmingly, while Smallville Lex fights against being anything like these other Lexs, and Gene Hackman's Lex annoys Lionel and L&C Lex for reminding them of their father.
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Post by General Kenobi on Jun 18, 2018 16:13:03 GMT
Well the Superman mythos has been around for 80 years and about every decade things are changed, sometimes drastically. So it's silly to say what is and isn't correct.
Not to mention that film and television create their own mythos that can be wildly different from the comics. Doesn't make it any less valid though.
In the end the correct mythos is what we want it to be.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2018 11:40:38 GMT
What did you think of the writers of 'Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman' keeping Jonathan alive? I remember a lot of fans were expecting him to die in that show too but they kept Jonathan alive for the entire series and Martha and him were season regulars. We have talked about their version of Jimmy Olsen on here before but I personally think their version of Perry White was the best and I liked his obsession with Elvis, his Father/ Son relationship with Jimmy Olsen and how he would always talk about Alice but you would only get to see the back of her or her from the bottom and never got to see her face. 'Lois and Clark' changed a lot of the Superman mythos and they didn't have the Fotress of Solitude to my memory and they had Lex Luthor with hair too (he was bald when he returned later) and he was in love with Lois. They almost got married in the first season but he was exposed as being a criminal and then he returned and tried to kidnap Lois a few times including once when she had no memory and he had a Lois clone that ate frogs. I will never forget the episode where Lois ate a frog 'cause I was wondering what the hell was wrong with her and I had to look away. I wasn't fully engrossed in the Superman mythos to to really know what was correct or incongruent when originally watching Lois and Clark; though by that time in the comics Ma and Pa Kent were alive and well in the comics too, so it's not like they were out in the of ne with some of that. In hindsight I love that they were both alive, because they played vital roles for Clark as his touchstone to humanity. You can easily understand how he grows up to be the man he is, in spite of being essentially a god, with parents like that. This in Stark contrast to the depiction of the Kents, namely Jonathan, in MoS. I've long thought it would be great to see a take on Superman that took the Long view of his history and have him introduced to the world in 1938, just like in the comics; and then weave him and his related characters through history (alternatively, consider the implications of conversational adaptations of no Superman and his influence on pop culture for majority of the 20th century, when only just appears recently). Part of this, of course, is the reality that the Kents would definitely have passed along time before the present, along with a lot of people Clark has known in such a long life. To that end, I think there'd be some good potential in one of his encounters with Mxyzptlk, if Mxy decides to give his long time adversary a gift - perhaps at a moment where Supes is particularly low - by bringing back his parents. Loved Lois and Clark's take on Perry. Did Lex; John Shea was great in the role, even if he didn't have the conventional look. The show wasn't quite the same after he left. His returns never felt right either. One thing I've found interesting is how each new take on Lex is almost essentially the son of the previous version. Not having seen Batman vs Superman, I don't know if that still tracks with their Lex, and we don't know that much about Supergirl's Lex or Lionel, but it definitely held up through Smallville. So you have Michael's Lex in Smallville, who grew up as a rich kid with the likes of Lionel, ruthless businessman as a father; who, if memory serves, may have killed his two bit criminal father for insurance money that helped him start his financial empire. On Lois and Clark, Lex was the ruthless business man who had killed his two bit criminal father for insurance money that allowed him to start his financial empire. And then with the Reeve movies Lex was a two bit criminal (self-destructive criminal mastermind). During the run of Smallville, a pipedream I had was to see a crossover with past versions of Clark and Lex; where Lionel and the Lex from Lois and Clark get along swimmingly, while Smallville Lex fights against being anything like these other Lexs, and Gene Hackman's Lex annoys Lionel and L&C Lex for reminding them of their father. I totally agree with you about Jonathan and Martha Kent both playing vital roles in Clark’s life in ‘Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman’ and it was Martha who made the ‘Superman’ costume for him in that show and both Clark’s parents encouraged him to be a hero which was very different compared to what we saw with them in ‘Man of Steel.’ I wasn’t a big fan of ‘Man of Steel’s’ versions of Jonathan and Martha even though I like some of Diane Lane’s movies and I didn’t like the changes they made to his upbringing and think they should have used ‘Smallville’ as an example of what Clark Kent’s upbringing was like in ’Man of Steel’ but that would have changed the darker tone they were going for and made Clark more human especially if they had made Chloe Sullivan an important character in his life.
I remember reading there were plans to have Chloe in the ‘Man of Steel’ movies and if you look back at some of the old interviews about ‘Man of Steel 2’ before they changed it to ‘Batman vs Superman’ one of the producers or writers confirmed Chloe was going to be in it as Clark’s childhood best friend who knew his secret and I think the sequel should still introduce Chloe Sullivan as way to ‘humanise’ Clark which is something a lot of fans who didn’t like ‘Man of Steel’ and ‘Batman vs Superman’ want to see done with the character but as a cousin and more importantly, friend to Lois too ‘cause it doesn’t look like she has anyone in the ‘DCEU’ movies including her sister, Lucy. Chloe would also be a good replacement for Jimmy Olsen in the Dailey Planet too but they will obviously need another actress aside from Allison Mack.
My biggest problem with the DCEU’s take on Superman is what they have done with Lex Luthor and I think it was a big mistake to make him so young and I would have preferred if Warner Bros had gone down the ‘Smallville’ path with an older Lex who was Clark’s former friend ‘cause I feel it made their rivalry way, way more personal having them as former best friends. I mean Clark got to witness Lex’s descent into darkness firsthand and blamed himself for it and that brings something to the story that I don’t think the DCEU could possibly replicate with the current version of Lex Luthor. You bring up a good point about the different versions of Lex being like the sons of one another and it is interesting how they have gone with that in movies and TV shows but I am overall not a fan of the DCEU version of Lex.
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Post by General Kenobi on Jun 23, 2018 12:24:48 GMT
You and everybody else, sister.
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Post by stargazer1682 on Jun 23, 2018 19:05:19 GMT
I think the biggest disappointment for me about Man of Steel was how much it drew from Superman Birthright, but didn't keep any of the best parts. Compared to other takes on Superman, the Birthright graphic novel isn't that old, and was pretty quickly replaced with a new origin, but it remains my favorite; what with Clark traveling the world as a fledgling reporter, trying to discover his purpose in life, the idea that as part of his vision powers he sees living beings differently and as such has become a vegetarian because of what meat looks like to him, and the history of the crest for the house of El turning out to represent much more to Krypton and even becoming a flag.
I hated how easily the MoS people of Smallville gave up Clark; or that there was such a simple trail to follow. With so many of them being people Clark had saved, the level of ingratitude was staggering. I mean, it even seemed that Pete Ross of all people sold him out; and apart from them supposed to being best friends, they even go to the trouble of having Clark save his life at the risk of his own exposure. I think it would make much more sense if Clark we're something of an open secret in Smallville, but no one is willing to speak because he's done so much for all of them. And it would have been good to see Lois in MoS to just keep hitting brick wall after brick wall of people he helped; which would have established him more as a hero and also force her to work harder and earn the truth, rather than have it be something just anyone could have learned.
The Kents being the sort of example for humanity has often been the mainstay of their characters and the prime explanation for how Clark could turn out so humble and selfless. Their premature death in the New 52 even seems to be an intentional point of exploration as a pivotal departure for Clark's development.
And Clark and Lex have often shared a past growing up together in Smallville, that ultimately foreshadows their future antagonistic relationship. It is a nice dynamic, but often difficult to incorporate; explaining why someone as Rich as Lex Luthor would spend any length of time living in a place like Smallville, and the convenient coincidence that these two people would cross paths under those circumstances and later become enemies of much larger proportions. Not that it would be the first or last such plot convenience.
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Post by General Kenobi on Jun 23, 2018 21:55:42 GMT
You just made my day Stargazer. I love Birthright and was bummed when it was so quickly replaced by Secret Origin.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2018 13:07:50 GMT
You and everybody else, sister. Looking at how unpopular and poorly received their version of Lex Luthor has been I am surprised they don't drop him and go with a different actor and an older version that more people are familiar with. I still think the reason they made the DCEU's versions of Lex Luthor and the Joker so different is 'cause there have already been a lot of previous versions of them and they wanted their versions to be new and stand out but I would have preferred if they had just gone with different villains instead.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2018 13:21:15 GMT
I think the biggest disappointment for me about Man of Steel was how much it drew from Superman Birthright, but didn't keep any of the best parts. Compared to other takes on Superman, the Birthright graphic novel isn't that old, and was pretty quickly replaced with a new origin, but it remains my favorite; what with Clark traveling the world as a fledgling reporter, trying to discover his purpose in life, the idea that as part of his vision powers he sees living beings differently and as such has become a vegetarian because of what meat looks like to him, and the history of the crest for the house of El turning out to represent much more to Krypton and even becoming a flag. I hated how easily the MoS people of Smallville gave up Clark; or that there was such a simple trail to follow. With so many of them being people Clark had saved, the level of ingratitude was staggering. I mean, it even seemed that Pete Ross of all people sold him out; and apart from them supposed to being best friends, they even go to the trouble of having Clark save his life at the risk of his own exposure. I think it would make much more sense if Clark we're something of an open secret in Smallville, but no one is willing to speak because he's done so much for all of them. And it would have been good to see Lois in MoS to just keep hitting brick wall after brick wall of people he helped; which would have established him more as a hero and also force her to work harder and earn the truth, rather than have it be something just anyone could have learned. The Kents being the sort of example for humanity has often been the mainstay of their characters and the prime explanation for how Clark could turn out so humble and selfless. Their premature death in the New 52 even seems to be an intentional point of exploration as a pivotal departure for Clark's development. And Clark and Lex have often shared a past growing up together in Smallville, that ultimately foreshadows their future antagonistic relationship. It is a nice dynamic, but often difficult to incorporate; explaining why someone as Rich as Lex Luthor would spend any length of time living in a place like Smallville, and the convenient coincidence that these two people would cross paths under those circumstances and later become enemies of much larger proportions. Not that it would be the first or last such plot convenience. I have never read the 'Superman: Birthright' graphic novel but I have heard of it and I just looked it up and it was originally a 12 issue comic book limited series that came out between 2003 and 2004 and I hate to say it but that is pretty old now and we are getting old and think that it is not but I have seen what my friends' children who were born in that year look like now. I didn't like the way the people of Smallville gave up on Clark in 'Man of Steel' either or the fact he didn't really have any close friendships with anybody other than Pete Ross who sold him out as you mentioned. That is where I think Chloe Sullivan should have came in 'cause it would have gave Clark that humanity people were looking for and a sense of humour and I understand they were going for a darker tone but I don't think the darker tone works for Superman like it does for Superman 'cause he grew up on earth with a human family and was close to humans and I always thought it was his love for humans that was one of the main reasons he become a superhero and fought for them whereas Supergirl didn't have that 'cause she woke up on earth years later and was a stranger. What happened to Lana in 'Man of Steel?' I thought it was odd she didn't play a bigger part in his backstory since she was his first love before Lois.
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Post by stargazer1682 on Jul 5, 2018 2:16:56 GMT
I have never read the 'Superman: Birthright' graphic novel but I have heard of it and I just looked it up and it was originally a 12 issue comic book limited series that came out between 2003 and 2004 and I hate to say it but that is pretty old now and we are getting old and think that it is not but I have seen what my friends' children who were born in that year look like now. I didn't like the way the people of Smallville gave up on Clark in 'Man of Steel' either or the fact he didn't really have any close friendships with anybody other than Pete Ross who sold him out as you mentioned. That is where I think Chloe Sullivan should have came in 'cause it would have gave Clark that humanity people were looking for and a sense of humour and I understand they were going for a darker tone but I don't think the darker tone works for Superman like it does for Superman 'cause he grew up on earth with a human family and was close to humans and I always thought it was his love for humans that was one of the main reasons he become a superhero and fought for them whereas Supergirl didn't have that 'cause she woke up on earth years later and was a stranger. What happened to Lana in 'Man of Steel?' I thought it was odd she didn't play a bigger part in his backstory since she was his first love before Lois.
It has been a while since it came out, but even for 2004, it was supplanted just a few short years after that, either with the New 52 or some other reimagining that fell between Birthright and the New 52. It was, at the time, very surprising and disappointing; especially because I really like Birthright (you really should check it out), not to mention the fact that the John Byrne origin story from the 80s, The Man of Steel, was largely maintained as his defacto origin for much, much longer. Whenever people would talk about wanting Superman to be darker and more like Batman on the Smallville board, I would note the important dichotomy of the two characters; and how Bruce Wayne often pushes people away, or his relationships just don't survive the darkness that is inextricably linked to his life. Meanwhile Clark Kent is the ultimate orphan, yet could not have more love in his life; and all of those touchstones for humanity are what allows him to redirect all of that positivity in what he does as Superman and be a beacon of light and hope.
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