flasuss
Sophomore
@flasuss
Posts: 323
Likes: 147
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Post by flasuss on Mar 23, 2017 18:48:26 GMT
Certainly not all, although some are.
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Post by brownstones on Mar 23, 2017 18:50:25 GMT
some, but not all. it's the ones who bring up how Rand should have been Asian just get the majority of the attention.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 23, 2017 19:13:26 GMT
Well not all of them are of course. But quite a number of reviews about Ironfist will keep pointing out that they should have cast an Asian-American actor for the role. And if that doesn't make them SJW's then it at least makes them racist. Because they're basically saying "Finn Jones shouldn't have been given this job because of his race". And if you approach a review with this thinking already in mind then you've already subtracted a point from a show even before you've seen it.
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Post by politicidal on Mar 23, 2017 21:25:00 GMT
Sometimes something just isn't good.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 23, 2017 22:04:31 GMT
Sometimes something just isn't good. And it's perfectly fine for them to diss it for whatever those things are. Heck I do it too. But they should avoid being racist about it.
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DarkManX
Junior Member
@shadowrun
Posts: 2,266
Likes: 1,100
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Post by DarkManX on Mar 24, 2017 3:38:17 GMT
I imagine most critics are siding with the SJW's instead of giving an honest review. I'm not entirely sure what this earns them if anything.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 24, 2017 15:47:08 GMT
Sometimes something just isn't good. I agree. Twisting critics' words is unproductive. True. But that doesn't mean it's invalid to point out how silly their complaints about race are and how hypocritical it makes them sound.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2017 15:47:19 GMT
Bottom line its very simple. A critic has the right to dislike something for whatever reason. The same is true for the audience. And people also have the right to disagree with any assessment since its all quite subjective anyway.
When it comes Iron Fist I think the show does have problems with pacing. It lacks action to some degree. But overall I liked it very much. I have seen better shows from Marvel on Netflix but also worse. To me Luke Cage was 'worse' than Iron Fist. And I still liked Luke Cage.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 24, 2017 20:02:01 GMT
The problem is that unlike the other Marvel Netflix shows that usually start off great and fizzle out towards the end, Iron Fist was the reverse with a weak start and a better second half.
Problem is, most of the reviews are based only on the first 6 episodes. A lot of questions about the series don't get explained until the latter half, resulting in the nasty review wave.
If they'd gotten the entire series instead of just the first half, reviews would put it more in the 60s.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Mar 24, 2017 20:06:03 GMT
The problem is that unlike the other Marvel Netflix shows that usually start off great and fizzle out towards the end, Iron Fist was the reverse with a weak start and a better second half. Problem is, most of the reviews are based only on the first 6 episodes. A lot of questions about the series don't get explained until the latter half, resulting in the nasty review wave. If they'd gotten the entire series instead of just the first half, reviews would put it more in the 60s. Do they say this explicitly? It seems odd they would only cover half a season of a show that's dumped all at once on Netflix.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 24, 2017 20:30:39 GMT
The problem is that unlike the other Marvel Netflix shows that usually start off great and fizzle out towards the end, Iron Fist was the reverse with a weak start and a better second half. Problem is, most of the reviews are based only on the first 6 episodes. A lot of questions about the series don't get explained until the latter half, resulting in the nasty review wave. If they'd gotten the entire series instead of just the first half, reviews would put it more in the 60s. Do they say this explicitly? It seems odd they would only cover half a season of a show that's dumped all at once on Netflix. Yup. All the reviews that came in before Netflix officially released IF, they only showed 6 episodes and the reviewers themselves kept mentioning that fact.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Mar 24, 2017 20:41:53 GMT
Do they say this explicitly? It seems odd they would only cover half a season of a show that's dumped all at once on Netflix. Yup. All the reviews that came in before Netflix officially released IF, they only showed 6 episodes and the reviewers themselves kept mentioning that fact. Weird. Thanks for clarifying, though. Is that standard ("standard") for shows like this, Daredevil, etc., to your knowledge? I guess six episodes should be enough to assess a series, but with the way MCU plots things out presumably entire seasons are meant to be viewed cohesively. It'd be a little like a reviewer saying, "I watched exactly half of Winter Solider and then walked out, but the first half was badass!"
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 25, 2017 12:13:29 GMT
It's more racist than being SJW if they want an Asian American, instead of the Caucasian from the comics, because he's a martial artist.
Legion is more arthouse and could have been trimmed down. Nothing is really going on to account for how many episodes there are right now. The selling point to the show is that it looks different than other shows. But strip that away and there really isn't anything new there. It started out as it's own thing, but by episode 2 it just became an X-men show with Legion at the school. Now if the villain turns out to be who I think it is then it might turn things around.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Mar 27, 2017 13:50:13 GMT
It's more racist than being SJW if they want an Asian American, instead of the Caucasian from the comics, because he's a martial artist. That wasn't their argument. The point is that it's a stereotypical trope of the white guy showing the Asians how to master an Asian martial art. It'd be the equivalent of the a white person showing Africans how to do their rituals properly. Or teaching Native Americans how to track in their lands. It's the mighty whitey, great white hunter trope. While it was common in the past, it's silly and could be construed as racist in modern days.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 27, 2017 14:46:22 GMT
It's more racist than being SJW if they want an Asian American, instead of the Caucasian from the comics, because he's a martial artist. That wasn't their argument. The point is that it's a stereotypical trope of the white guy showing the Asians how to master an Asian martial art. It'd be the equivalent of the a white person showing Africans how to do their rituals properly. Or teaching Native Americans how to track in their lands. It's the mighty whitey, great white hunter trope. While it was common in the past, it's silly and could be construed as racist in modern days. So it's okay for Batman or Wolverine or whoever, but no one else?
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Post by PreachCaleb on Mar 27, 2017 14:50:24 GMT
I don't know of any stories where they went around schooling other races on how to do their traditions properly. And if they did, then no. No, it's not ok for them either.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 27, 2017 14:55:05 GMT
It's more racist than being SJW if they want an Asian American, instead of the Caucasian from the comics, because he's a martial artist. That wasn't their argument. The point is that it's a stereotypical trope of the white guy showing the Asians how to master an Asian martial art. It'd be the equivalent of the a white person showing Africans how to do their rituals properly. Or teaching Native Americans how to track in their lands. It's the mighty whitey, great white hunter trope. While it was common in the past, it's silly and could be construed as racist in modern days. But that's not the show (or even in the source) at all. It's the opposite of what they are complaining about. They are talking about the trope of a white man going to an Asian culture and learning a super power. Also, if they watched the show they'd know that the people in K'un-Lun aren't all Asian. The opening is just in the Himalayas.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 27, 2017 15:09:34 GMT
Some of them, sure. But some of them are probably fans of the character who felt let down because frankly, Danny was the weakest character on his own show. The show isn't perfect, it certainly has its problems. As an adaptation of the comic book, it's a disappointment. But as a show, if you had never even heard of the character, I actually thought it was a solid watch.
Personally, I think it works better if you view the Meachums as the protagonists, because they were by far the most compelling characters on the show. The biggest problem the show has is its run time. It should've been 10 episodes, that would have cleared up a lot of the filler and bad writing required to drag things out the way they did. Danny would have to have a more defined motivation which would make him a better character in general.
As an Iron Fist fan I hope they shore up the writing on his character in particular in Defenders, and really showcase his fighting prowess. But as a standalone, Iron Fist is still worth watching for the supporting characters alone. Colleen, Claire (though a lot of the references she makes would go over your head if you haven't seen the other stuff), the Meachums, Davos, Gao and some of the better Hand henchman (the drunk guy, Scythe and Bride of Nine Spiders) brought something interesting and enjoyable to the table.
Look, it's a problem when your title character is dull when he isn't being petulant. But the show finds a way to overcome that, and we can only go up from here.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 27, 2017 15:47:45 GMT
It's more racist than being SJW if they want an Asian American, instead of the Caucasian from the comics, because he's a martial artist. That wasn't their argument. The point is that it's a stereotypical trope of the white guy showing the Asians how to master an Asian martial art. It'd be the equivalent of the a white person showing Africans how to do their rituals properly. Or teaching Native Americans how to track in their lands. It's the mighty whitey, great white hunter trope. While it was common in the past, it's silly and could be construed as racist in modern days. Meh. There's nothing to stop a white or black man from becoming better at an Asian martial art than most of their asian classmates if they have the talent and put effort into it. In the end, there will always be 1 student who will be the best in a martial art school, and if it so happened to be a white guy then so be it. There's also the fact that most Caucasian males will be bigger and have heavier bone mass and musculature than your average Asian male, so in a physical fight they do automatically have a bit of an advantage. And this is coming from someone who's half Asian and half hispanic.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Mar 27, 2017 16:03:50 GMT
Again, it's built on the mighty whitey trope. Not that it's impossible in reality, but that's it's far too ubiquitous in film/television.
In reality, sure. In fiction, that can actually be controlled. The problem is that it's usually the novice white guy who becomes the greatest and not the Asian guy who's been studying his entire life and whose family has studied marital arts for generations. The white guy has to save the minorities.
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