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Post by Skaathar on Mar 28, 2017 23:49:26 GMT
Except those countries aren't as diverse as the United States. Except that has too often come at the expense of other races and their cultures. Hence why people are tired of it. It's a trope from a bygone era. Why is casting a white actor in a role originally meant for a white character something that comes "at the expense" of other races? Should I also consider casting a black actor for Luke Cage as something that comes "at the expense" of other races?
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Post by PreachCaleb on Mar 29, 2017 13:02:37 GMT
As I said, it was a trope from the 70's. White guy masters asian maritial arts. That's why it comes at the expense of other races. It's roots are about white being superior.
No, because that's not the same thing. That was about an oppressed race getting a hero to rise up. The mighty whitey trope is about the oppressive race being superior to the others.
Like I said, it's the difference between a Jewish hero rising up in Nazi Germany and a German super hero beating up Jews.
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Post by Marv on Mar 29, 2017 13:57:36 GMT
To be fair it's more like a German superhero beating up other Germans on behalf of the Jews.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 29, 2017 15:20:00 GMT
As I said, it was a trope from the 70's. White guy masters asian maritial arts. That's why it comes at the expense of other races. It's roots are about white being superior. No, because that's not the same thing. That was about an oppressed race getting a hero to rise up. The mighty whitey trope is about the oppressive race being superior to the others. Like I said, it's the difference between a Jewish hero rising up in Nazi Germany and a German super hero beating up Jews. Discrimination will never disappear if we keep wallowing in the past and reminiscing how much discrimination there was in the past. It's like picking on a scab, it will never allow the wound to properly heal. In any case, there is no white savior in this show simply because there is no single majority demographic in the show that he's trying to save. It's not like he's in China and he's the only white guy around and ends up saving the day. He's in New York (?) and trying to save... his company. The people in the show are either white or asian, with some blacks and hispanics here and there. Point being, there is no single dominant race that Rand pops out of being white. And before you go, "Yeah but he became the Ironfist of K'un L'un despite being white", you'll first need to prove that K'un L'un has almost no white person for you to claim your white savior theory.
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Post by SuperDevilDoctor on Mar 29, 2017 15:27:18 GMT
Are critics of SJWs actually "RWNJs"?
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Post by PreachCaleb on Mar 29, 2017 16:13:18 GMT
As I said, it was a trope from the 70's. White guy masters asian maritial arts. That's why it comes at the expense of other races. It's roots are about white being superior. No, because that's not the same thing. That was about an oppressed race getting a hero to rise up. The mighty whitey trope is about the oppressive race being superior to the others. Like I said, it's the difference between a Jewish hero rising up in Nazi Germany and a German super hero beating up Jews. Discrimination will never disappear if we keep wallowing in the past and reminiscing how much discrimination there was in the past. It's like picking on a scab, it will never allow the wound to properly heal. In any case, there is no white savior in this show simply because there is no single majority demographic in the show that he's trying to save. It's not like he's in China and he's the only white guy around and ends up saving the day. He's in New York (?) and trying to save... his company. The people in the show are either white or asian, with some blacks and hispanics here and there. Point being, there is no single dominant race that Rand pops out of being white. And before you go, "Yeah but he became the Ironfist of K'un L'un despite being white", you'll first need to prove that K'un L'un has almost no white person for you to claim your white savior theory. Actually, I don't have to prove that. Just the fact that he's a white guy that's mastered an Asian martial art is enough to remind people of the Great White Hope trope. Not to mention, you just pointed out that there are a variety of races, yet it's the white guy who's the martial arts master/hero. He's a westerner who mastered Kung-Fu and he's a Buddhist, both of which originated in Asia. That's the white savory trope right there. White guy masters another race's culture and traditions. P.S. Ignoring the past is not at all how we'll get rid of discrimination. We must learn from it to better ourselves. Not pretend it doesn't exist or doesn't affect us in the present. It's not about picking at the scab. It's about applying medicine and a dressing to it. That's far more effective than ignoring it.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 29, 2017 20:19:21 GMT
Discrimination will never disappear if we keep wallowing in the past and reminiscing how much discrimination there was in the past. It's like picking on a scab, it will never allow the wound to properly heal. In any case, there is no white savior in this show simply because there is no single majority demographic in the show that he's trying to save. It's not like he's in China and he's the only white guy around and ends up saving the day. He's in New York (?) and trying to save... his company. The people in the show are either white or asian, with some blacks and hispanics here and there. Point being, there is no single dominant race that Rand pops out of being white. And before you go, "Yeah but he became the Ironfist of K'un L'un despite being white", you'll first need to prove that K'un L'un has almost no white person for you to claim your white savior theory. Actually, I don't have to prove that. Just the fact that he's a white guy that's mastered an Asian martial art is enough to remind people of the Great White Hope trope. Not to mention, you just pointed out that there are a variety of races, yet it's the white guy who's the martial arts master/hero. He's a westerner who mastered Kung-Fu and he's a Buddhist, both of which originated in Asia. That's the white savory trope right there. White guy masters another race's culture and traditions. P.S. Ignoring the past is not at all how we'll get rid of discrimination. We must learn from it to better ourselves. Not pretend it doesn't exist or doesn't affect us in the present. It's not about picking at the scab. It's about applying medicine and a dressing to it. That's far more effective than ignoring it. So you basically just admitted to being racist against the white guy. This sentence of yours are you implying that it's ok for any other race to be a master martial artist as long as it's not a white guy? Or that as soon as it's a white guy you'll label him as a white savior? That's ridiculously racist. P.S. Acknowledging the past and learning from it is quite different from assigning the sins of the past to the people of the present.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Mar 29, 2017 20:57:18 GMT
Everything I wrote, and that's how you interpret it? Yikes.
I'm not implying anything. I've outright stated the Great White Hope trope was birthed from racism. It's that simple. Perpetuating it is why people raise concerns. It's 2017. We can't pretend things like this don't affect, and down right offend, minorities. And if it doesn't offend you, swell. But it's not anyone's place to say what isn't offensive to others.
No, it's not. It's not racist to say the oppressive race probably should not be masterful at an oppressed race's culture. Like I keep saying, imagine a movie where a German knows way more about Hanukkah than his Jewish contemporaries. Or a Japanese man knows way more about Confucianism than a Chinese man. That's the core problem with the mighty whitey trope.
Indeed. I never said the creators of the show are racist. Just that they're continuing a trope steeped in racism. It should be kicked to the curb along with blackface and yellowface.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 29, 2017 22:08:59 GMT
I'm just wondering how someone can be a fan of Wolverine or Batman and feel like this.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Mar 29, 2017 22:39:40 GMT
Well, one thing about Batman and Wolverine is that their martial arts skills were added in later.
Iron Fist's origin is pretty much his defining characteristic: Being a martial arts expert. He's obviously come further than that, but those were his origins. And hence why people would have a problem with an origin steeped in 70's tropes would be adapted in 2017.
Besides, one important thing that keeps getting overlooked is that I'm simply explaining why people feel this way about Iron Fist. I don't hate Iron Fist. Nor am I really making excuses for Batman or Wolverine. I don't feel it's any better when they do the same thing.
If people where to complain about Wolverine or Batman being mighty whitey, I would absolutely understand and sympathize, and I wouldn't say they're wrong. Though I think Logan gets a pass just because he's the only good thing to ever come out of Canada. He joked.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Mar 23, 2018 15:53:25 GMT
The problem with the show wasn't the actor being white. The problem is Scott Buck is the show runner.
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