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Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 27, 2017 16:50:23 GMT
Again, it's built on the mighty whitey trope. Not that it's impossible in reality, but that's it's far too ubiquitous in film/television. In reality, sure. In fiction, that can actually be controlled. The problem is that it's usually the novice white guy who becomes the greatest and not the Asian guy who's been studying his entire life and whose family has studied marital arts for generations. The white guy has to save the minorities. He's white in the comics, it's that simple. I would've been fine with an actor of any racial background for the show, but you're acting like the show is guilty of perpetuating a trope when all they did was adapt the story from the comics. It's a legitimate gripe about the character in general, but again it's an adaptation. If they had made him Asian in the show, there would have been people complaining that Marvel had an Asian lead in a show, and of course he's a martial artist. As far as 'saving the minorities' goes, he didn't do a very good job. He fucked off to New York and left K'un-L'un open to attack. I think the aspects of the story that make him such a flawed character work much better if he is an outsider. As far as writing goes, he's the weakest character on the show. Honestly they dodged a bullet by not casting an Asian actor only to make them easily the least interesting lead character in a Marvel property to date. |
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 27, 2017 17:19:31 GMT
Again, it's built on the mighty whitey trope. Not that it's impossible in reality, but that's it's far too ubiquitous in film/television. In reality, sure. In fiction, that can actually be controlled. The problem is that it's usually the novice white guy who becomes the greatest and not the Asian guy who's been studying his entire life and whose family has studied marital arts for generations. The white guy has to save the minorities. You forget that we've also had a lot of the "Asian martial arts master" trope. It will either be the old mystical master, or the tiny female asian who can completely kick ass, or the Asian unassuming guy who happens to be a tremendous fighter, or the Asian bodyguard who's a martial arts master... Anyway all I'm saying is that casting a white lead in IF is just as stereotypical as casting an Asian lead. At least casting a white lead has sticking to the source material to back it up. If you ask me, they should have just cast Taylor Lautner in the lead role. He's Native American and that will completely shut up these racist complaints. He's just as bad an actor as Finn but at least he's a pretty good martial artist. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Mar 27, 2017 18:42:08 GMT
Again, it's built on the mighty whitey trope. Not that it's impossible in reality, but that's it's far too ubiquitous in film/television. In reality, sure. In fiction, that can actually be controlled. The problem is that it's usually the novice white guy who becomes the greatest and not the Asian guy who's been studying his entire life and whose family has studied marital arts for generations. The white guy has to save the minorities. He's white in the comics, it's that simple. I would've been fine with an actor of any racial background for the show, but you're acting like the show is guilty of perpetuating a trope when all they did was adapt the story from the comics. It's a legitimate gripe about the character in general, but again it's an adaptation. If they had made him Asian in the show, there would have been people complaining that Marvel had an Asian lead in a show, and of course he's a martial artist. As far as 'saving the minorities' goes, he didn't do a very good job. He fucked off to New York and left K'un-L'un open to attack. I think the aspects of the story that make him such a flawed character work much better if he is an outsider. As far as writing goes, he's the weakest character on the show. Honestly they dodged a bullet by not casting an Asian actor only to make them easily the least interesting lead character in a Marvel property to date. As we've seen from past movies, adaptations need not be 100% faithful, and changing a character's race is not unheard of. In any case, I'm not really making any accusations. Just explaining detractors' feelings about the latent racial insensitivity of the character/story. And don't worry about him going off to New York. He'll still end up being a hero. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 27, 2017 22:39:48 GMT
Again, it's built on the mighty whitey trope. Not that it's impossible in reality, but that's it's far too ubiquitous in film/television. In reality, sure. In fiction, that can actually be controlled. The problem is that it's usually the novice white guy who becomes the greatest and not the Asian guy who's been studying his entire life and whose family has studied marital arts for generations. The white guy has to save the minorities. But Danny WASN'T a novice, he grew up in K'un L'un and was trained just as hard as anyone else. And the other Iron Fists' before him were multi-ethnical. It was never a "Asian Only" thing. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Mar 27, 2017 22:54:53 GMT
Perception. The white guy is better than the Asians at martial arts. Which may not have been seen as a big deal in the 70's, but in modern times, it's seen as the great white hunter trope. Something many people feel should've been left behind decades ago.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 27, 2017 23:36:56 GMT
Perception. The white guy is better than the Asians at martial arts. Which may not have been seen as a big deal in the 70's, but in modern times, it's seen as the great white hunter trope. Something many people feel should've been left behind decades ago. Yet it never stopped Batman. He was a white guy trained for less time then the other League of Shadows Ninjas but he was still better than them. |
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 28, 2017 1:32:20 GMT
Perception. The white guy is better than the Asians at martial arts. Which may not have been seen as a big deal in the 70's, but in modern times, it's seen as the great white hunter trope. Something many people feel should've been left behind decades ago. Seems to me in modern times it's now considered the cool thing to hate on the white leading male. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Mar 28, 2017 13:06:14 GMT
Perception. The white guy is better than the Asians at martial arts. Which may not have been seen as a big deal in the 70's, but in modern times, it's seen as the great white hunter trope. Something many people feel should've been left behind decades ago. Yet it never stopped Batman. He was a white guy trained for less time then the other League of Shadows Ninjas but he was still better than them. That's not any better. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Mar 28, 2017 13:08:07 GMT
Perception. The white guy is better than the Asians at martial arts. Which may not have been seen as a big deal in the 70's, but in modern times, it's seen as the great white hunter trope. Something many people feel should've been left behind decades ago. Seems to me in modern times it's now considered the cool thing to hate on the white leading male. Nah. It's just when he's stereotyped as being the great white hope. When he has to save other races with their own traditions. In any case, it's not the white guy. It's the idea that only the white guys can be heroes. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 28, 2017 17:10:57 GMT
Seems to me in modern times it's now considered the cool thing to hate on the white leading male. Nah. It's just when he's stereotyped as being the great white hope. When he has to save other races with their own traditions. In any case, it's not the white guy. It's the idea that only the white guys can be heroes. Um...if you watched the show you'd see it wasn't anything like that. His actions kind of doom the other races. |
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Post by Marv on Mar 28, 2017 17:40:21 GMT
Of course all should know by now that Danny Rand was a blond haired blue eyed white dude in the comics. Just like he is on the show. So any criticism on that front is ridiculous.
But criticizing the show on other fronts...perfectly reasonable. I haven't finished it yet but it certainly has it's flaws even though it is very entertaining.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Mar 28, 2017 18:19:46 GMT
Nah. It's just when he's stereotyped as being the great white hope. When he has to save other races with their own traditions. In any case, it's not the white guy. It's the idea that only the white guys can be heroes. Um...if you watched the show you'd see it wasn't anything like that. His actions kind of doom the other races. Oh, man. Even worse. White guy dooms other races. Forget fiction. People've had enough of that in reality. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 28, 2017 18:39:04 GMT
Um...if you watched the show you'd see it wasn't anything like that. His actions kind of doom the other races. Oh, man. Even worse. White guy dooms other races. Forget fiction. People've had enough of that in reality. No offense, but it sounds like you'll be offended either way. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Mar 28, 2017 18:42:59 GMT
Yes. Because those are two bad choices. In life, and more specifically, in fiction, we're not limited to just two choices. Especially when they can be made up.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 28, 2017 19:41:37 GMT
Seems to me in modern times it's now considered the cool thing to hate on the white leading male. Nah. It's just when he's stereotyped as being the great white hope. When he has to save other races with their own traditions. In any case, it's not the white guy. It's the idea that only the white guys can be heroes. So basically what you're saying is, a white man is no longer allowed to be better at anything than other races otherwise he'll be seen as the white savior? You don't even know what racial majority is for K'un L'un. For all we know they're completely diverse as well. So this idea of Rand being a white savior has no basis. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Mar 28, 2017 20:18:55 GMT
What I'm saying is a far more racially diverse audience is tired of seeing that trope. You forget, many of those races had "White is right" beaten into them for generations. It'd be a like a show starring a German being superior to Jews.
It's understandable they'd be tired of seeing it pop up again and again.
And yes, it does have a basis because, as you said, we don't know the K'un L'un's racial diversity, yet the one big hero we do get to see and follow as the main hero is the white one.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 28, 2017 21:57:03 GMT
What I'm saying is a far more racially diverse audience is tired of seeing that trope. You forget, many of those races had "White is right" beaten into them for generations. It'd be a like a show starring a German being superior to Jews. It's understandable they'd be tired of seeing it pop up again and again. And yes, it does have a basis because, as you said, we don't know the K'un L'un's racial diversity, yet the one big hero we do get to see and follow as the main hero is the white one. And there is completely nothing wrong with having a white person be the hero of the story. This show is set in America after all, and I'm pretty sure that the US is still predominantly caucasian. Again you're proving me right, by saying that even if K'un L'un is diverse you'd prefer any other race except white to be the hero? As for the white hero trope being a tiresome one, it's every bit as tiresome as casting an Asian person to be a martial artist. It's almost like no other race can learn martial arts. So if you were to choose between the two evils which would you choose? Well, choose the one that closely ties in to the comic roots. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Mar 28, 2017 22:06:44 GMT
I didn't say it was wrong. Just old and tired. I'm not even saying I have a problem with it. I'm explaining why other people have a problem with it. I understand and sympathize.
Like I said, an oppressed race would be tired of watching the dominant race constantly saving the world and being the hero.
It's really not. The reason that became a cliche was because that was the Asian peron's entire defining characteristic. A well-defined Asian character who knows martial arts is not tiresome. After all, it was an Asian man (Bruce Lee) who made it popular in the U.S. Unfortunately, many writers at the time decided that anything an Asian man can do, white people can do better. Hence the white marital artist being the superior one in many movies.
Not at all. As it's been proven, deviating from the comics is not unheard of and can be quite successful.
In any case, making an Asian the star and hero is not an evil. The benefits outweigh the cons.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 28, 2017 22:43:11 GMT
It's really not. The reason that became a cliche was because that was the Asian peron's entire defining characteristic. A well-defined Asian character who knows martial arts is not tiresome. After all, it was an Asian man (Bruce Lee) who made it popular in the U.S. Unfortunately, many writers at the time decided that anything an Asian man can do, white people can do better. Hence the white marital artist being the superior one in many movies. Only in Hollywood films. For majority of Asian films it is Asian actors/actresses who are the heroes of the movies, even if there are other character races involved. And it makes sense, since it is only normal to depict one's own racial identity as the hero in a movie. Which is why you can't really hate on America making movies where a white person is the usual hero of the story. I mean, I'm glad that it's now starting to diversify, but i won't hate on a Hollywood movie just because it decides to represent it's most populous demographic as the hero. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Mar 28, 2017 22:56:57 GMT
Except those countries aren't as diverse as the United States.
Except that has too often come at the expense of other races and their cultures. Hence why people are tired of it. It's a trope from a bygone era.
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