|
Post by dividavi on Nov 5, 2018 4:24:01 GMT
However, speaking seriously, you can generalize and the generalizations for Islam are not favorable. Sure you can, but generalising is not often a good idea. Especially given that the generalisations frequently focus on tiny minorities of the group that's being generalised about. For example, it is a fact that most serious violence is perpetrated by men. Most criminal acts are perpetrated by men. Those governments you talk about? All largely or entirely governed by men. Should we label men as inherently violent? Should we call for a ban on male immigration? Should people be careful around you because you're a male and "we know what men are like"? And that last isn't hypothetical, by the way - you've almost certainly been in situations were somebody was, to at least some degree, afraid of you because you are a man. And if you don't think so, it's almost certainly because you didn't notice. Men are also most of the rapists. Are you a potential rapist? Do you object to being thought of as one? Why would you object - it's just generalising, right? And yet men (rightly, IMO) object to those kinds of generalisations. Often they'll literally say that it's deeply wrong to make such generalisations about men. It's strange to me, because I hear so many rants about how feminists must hate ALL men - after all, they keep saying such beastly things about men! And yet the people who object to that are often the same ones who are happy to engage in generalisations about muslims. Or black people, or gays, or "liberals", or women for that matter. As if the only group that it's not okay to generalise about are themselves. Regarding the views of feminists towards men, I believe there's lots of hatred between the genders. I've heard several men say the following in one way or another: If it wasn't for their vaginas men would kill them. I once jokingly told a woman, "Men, you can't live with them, you can't shoot them." She looked at me and said, "I could shoot them." The people who made those remarks were all married and presumably straight. The statements were meant as jokes but it was clear to me that there was some very strong hostility not too far from the surface. Nobody had actually killed his/her spouse though I would guess that many had considered murder, if only briefly. By contrast, the Jewish/Muslim dispute is a lot more murderous than what was called by 1960s journalists The Battle of the Sexes. The purpose of Linda Sarsour and the BDS movement is to destroy the Jewish presence in Israel. Destroy in this case is synonymous with kill. The Arabs tried several military solution which all failed. Now they employ tactics of economic sabotage and vast amounts of propaganda. All that incitement has an effect just like ads for Coca-Cola have an effect on what gets purchased. The propaganda effort by Linda Sarsour is the type of shit that the Pittsburgh shooter and other Jew killers would regularly see. At some point they take action. Yes, it's part of the Muslim campaign against Jews that is supported by all, or almost all, Muslim states and populations. Some money to try and look decent doesn't change what they are: murderers. The above is still true.
|
|
|
Post by Cody™ on Nov 5, 2018 9:59:58 GMT
Sure you can, but generalising is not often a good idea. Especially given that the generalisations frequently focus on tiny minorities of the group that's being generalised about. For example, it is a fact that most serious violence is perpetrated by men. Most criminal acts are perpetrated by men. Those governments you talk about? All largely or entirely governed by men. Should we label men as inherently violent? Should we call for a ban on male immigration? Should people be careful around you because you're a male and "we know what men are like"? And that last isn't hypothetical, by the way - you've almost certainly been in situations were somebody was, to at least some degree, afraid of you because you are a man. And if you don't think so, it's almost certainly because you didn't notice. Men are also most of the rapists. Are you a potential rapist? Do you object to being thought of as one? Why would you object - it's just generalising, right? And yet men (rightly, IMO) object to those kinds of generalisations. Often they'll literally say that it's deeply wrong to make such generalisations about men. It's strange to me, because I hear so many rants about how feminists must hate ALL men - after all, they keep saying such beastly things about men! And yet the people who object to that are often the same ones who are happy to engage in generalisations about muslims. Or black people, or gays, or "liberals", or women for that matter. As if the only group that it's not okay to generalise about are themselves. Just jumping in here without reading the thread, but many of the generalisations that you can make about islam dont involve tiny minorities. Large portions of the adherents hold some pretty disgusting beliefs. Even ones that live in western countries. 52% of British muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, for example. 47% think gay people shouldn't be teaching in schools. 40% thought a woman should always obey her husband. When you look at many muslim majority nations/areas, the numbers are much worse. With regard to women needing to always obey their husband, and carry out her husbands wishes, thats 93% in south east asian muslims, 87% in the middle east and north africa. So generalising that Islam/muslims are fairly restrictive on womens freedoms, and not all that fond of gay people, are really quite fair as it isnt tiny minorities holding the views. Exactly. Graham is just talking out of his ignorant, do gooder, virtue signalling arse as usual. Like most western ‘liberals’ nowadays.
|
|
puvo
Sophomore
@puvo
Posts: 575
Likes: 78
|
Post by puvo on Nov 5, 2018 10:29:13 GMT
Just jumping in here without reading the thread, but many of the generalisations that you can make about islam dont involve tiny minorities. Large portions of the adherents hold some pretty disgusting beliefs. Even ones that live in western countries. 52% of British muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, for example. 47% think gay people shouldn't be teaching in schools. 40% thought a woman should always obey her husband. When you look at many muslim majority nations/areas, the numbers are much worse. With regard to women needing to always obey their husband, and carry out her husbands wishes, thats 93% in south east asian muslims, 87% in the middle east and north africa. So generalising that Islam/muslims are fairly restrictive on womens freedoms, and not all that fond of gay people, are really quite fair as it isnt tiny minorities holding the views. Exactly. Graham is just talking out of his ignorant, do gooder, virtue signalling arse as usual. Like most western ‘liberals’ nowadays. I generally agree with what he says though. Cant remember ever disagreeing with him before, truth be told.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2018 12:27:57 GMT
Just jumping in here without reading the thread, but many of the generalisations that you can make about islam dont involve tiny minorities. Large portions of the adherents hold some pretty disgusting beliefs. Even ones that live in western countries. 52% of British muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, for example. 47% think gay people shouldn't be teaching in schools. 40% thought a woman should always obey her husband. When you look at many muslim majority nations/areas, the numbers are much worse. With regard to women needing to always obey their husband, and carry out her husbands wishes, thats 93% in south east asian muslims, 87% in the middle east and north africa. So generalising that Islam/muslims are fairly restrictive on womens freedoms, and not all that fond of gay people, are really quite fair as it isnt tiny minorities holding the views. And that's fair enough; I don't disagree with it and haven't argued against it. But the kind of "they all want to murder the jews" generalisations are foolish and dangerous. As are pulling examples of rape or murder out and acting as though that's "what they're like", without recognising that there's never been a racial, ethnic or religious group in history that didn't have examples of that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2018 12:28:33 GMT
Exactly. Graham is just talking out of his ignorant, do gooder, virtue signalling arse as usual. Like most western ‘liberals’ nowadays. Wrong as usual.
|
|
|
Post by Cody™ on Nov 5, 2018 13:42:28 GMT
Just jumping in here without reading the thread, but many of the generalisations that you can make about islam dont involve tiny minorities. Large portions of the adherents hold some pretty disgusting beliefs. Even ones that live in western countries. 52% of British muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, for example. 47% think gay people shouldn't be teaching in schools. 40% thought a woman should always obey her husband. When you look at many muslim majority nations/areas, the numbers are much worse. With regard to women needing to always obey their husband, and carry out her husbands wishes, thats 93% in south east asian muslims, 87% in the middle east and north africa. So generalising that Islam/muslims are fairly restrictive on womens freedoms, and not all that fond of gay people, are really quite fair as it isnt tiny minorities holding the views. And that's fair enough; I don't disagree with it and haven't argued against it. But the kind of "they all want to murder the jews" generalisations are foolish and dangerous. As are pulling examples of rape or murder out and acting as though that's "what they're like", without recognising that there's never been a racial, ethnic or religious group in history that didn't have examples of that.No other religion sanctions rape and murder for it’s adherents other than Islam though. But for some reason liberal idiots like you, who like to pretend to pride themselves on evidence, logic and reason, overlook this rather significant fact and obvious correlation. When it comes to Islam you snowflakes can’t seem to argue past #NotAll #NotAll.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2018 14:28:19 GMT
And that's fair enough; I don't disagree with it and haven't argued against it. But the kind of "they all want to murder the jews" generalisations are foolish and dangerous. As are pulling examples of rape or murder out and acting as though that's "what they're like", without recognising that there's never been a racial, ethnic or religious group in history that didn't have examples of that.No other religion sanctions rape and murder for it’s adherents other than Islam though. The god you worship has done both. But then your opinions never have been fact-based, you utter moron. Go blow your bigotry at somebody else. I've better things to do with my time than listen to you.
|
|
|
Post by phludowin on Nov 5, 2018 15:22:41 GMT
Just jumping in here without reading the thread, but many of the generalisations that you can make about islam dont involve tiny minorities. Large portions of the adherents hold some pretty disgusting beliefs. Even ones that live in western countries. 52% of British muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, for example. 47% think gay people shouldn't be teaching in schools. 40% thought a woman should always obey her husband. Where do these numbers come from? And were the polled Muslims from families who had lived in the UK for at least two generations? When you look at many muslim majority nations/areas, the numbers are much worse. With regard to women needing to always obey their husband, and carry out her husbands wishes, thats 93% in south east asian muslims, 87% in the middle east and north africa. The point of my questions above is: Maybe it's not Islam that causes discrimination of women and LGBT people; it might be the overall culture. Case in point: Countries like India and Uganda are not known for their good human-rights-performance; and they are not Muslim countries. So generalising that Islam/muslims are fairly restrictive on womens freedoms, and not all that fond of gay people, are really quite fair as it isnt tiny minorities holding the views. It would be, if Islam was the cause of toxic masculinity, and not merely a symptom. But in my opinion that's not established.
|
|
|
Post by Cody™ on Nov 5, 2018 15:31:23 GMT
@graham
Nice use of the tu quoque. 👍
Bigot! Bigot! Bigot! Anybody who has a critical or low view of Islam or Muslims whom are influenced by their religion into doing repugnant things is a bigot. Anyone who criticises the bible or Christians with a different opinion is a critical thinker. Is that right, Graham?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2018 17:27:29 GMT
Bigot! Bigot! Bigot! Anybody who has a critical or low view of Islam or Muslims whom are influenced by their religion into doing repugnant things is a bigot. Would you approve of your daughter dating a black man?
|
|
|
Post by Karl Aksel on Nov 5, 2018 18:15:11 GMT
Come on now, we all know that Muslims are all utterly identical in every respect, and therefore all of them are to blame for any bad thing any of them does. My lord, you guys outwitted me. Somehow it never occurred to me that the billion or so Muslims in this world might show variances in perspectives and that not all Muslims are responsible for the actions of the few. As someone from Brazil once informed me, "You can not generalize," but I did anyways. However, speaking seriously, you can generalize and the generalizations for Islam are not favorable. Every Muslim and/or Arab state is an authoritarian state where those not subscribing to the dominant local variety of Islam must live in fear. How thorough is your research? Of all Muslim nations, only six are actually Islamic. Around 20 have Islam as state religion, but 23 are secular with separation of government and religion. Do minorities live in fear in all of those? And do minorities not live in fear in the West as well? Blacks are a very large minority in the US, but they fear their own government's police. I do note that you are trying to conflate Muslim with Arab, though. The NSDAP was a political party. Islam is a religion. If you want to make THAT comparison, compare Islam with Christianity, as most NSDAP members were Christian. And yes, it is absolutely wrong to generalise Christians based on NSDAP members.
|
|
|
Post by thorshairspray on Nov 5, 2018 18:57:22 GMT
No other religion sanctions rape and murder for it’s adherents other than Islam though. The god you worship has done both. But then your opinions never have been fact-based, you utter moron. Go blow your bigotry at somebody else. I've better things to do with my time than listen to you. Look at pew research into this stuff. It is entirely reasonable to say that the majority of Muslims have utterly shit attitudes to women and minorities.
|
|
|
Post by goz on Nov 5, 2018 23:05:29 GMT
The god you worship has done both. But then your opinions never have been fact-based, you utter moron. Go blow your bigotry at somebody else. I've better things to do with my time than listen to you. Look at pew research into this stuff. It is entirely reasonable to say that the majority of Muslims have utterly shit attitudes to women and minorities. The irony is overwhelming strong here!
|
|
|
Post by thorshairspray on Nov 5, 2018 23:24:41 GMT
Look at pew research into this stuff. It is entirely reasonable to say that the majority of Muslims have utterly shit attitudes to women and minorities. The irony is overwhelming strong here! You are conflating "Feminists arguments" with "women" If you can find me saying anywhere that a woman should inherit half of what a man does, her testimony be only worth half that of a mans, that she should cover up in public. That it is ok to beat a wife who refuses sex or is disobedient. That women should always obey their husbands. That women should require permission of a male guardian to leave the house. That a rapist can only be convicted if the woman shouts for help or if their are two female witnesses. Then go for it. But displaying the typical feminist lack of awareness, continue to claim "disagreement" is sexist oppression and totally the same as what Iranian women suffer.
|
|
|
Post by dividavi on Nov 6, 2018 0:08:13 GMT
My lord, you guys outwitted me. Somehow it never occurred to me that the billion or so Muslims in this world might show variances in perspectives and that not all Muslims are responsible for the actions of the few. As someone from Brazil once informed me, "You can not generalize," but I did anyways. However, speaking seriously, you can generalize and the generalizations for Islam are not favorable. Every Muslim and/or Arab state is an authoritarian state where those not subscribing to the dominant local variety of Islam must live in fear. 👨🎓 I see. It's now time to to engage in pointless discussion about what differentiates an Islamic state from one that is secular with a Muslim majority. Well, under the present military dictatorship Egypt would, I think, be a secular state by your reckoning. It's also a country where Christian churches are attacked with regularity and where Muslim rioters are quickly released from custody. The BBC told us that Under Egyptian law, Christian men must convert to Islam to marry a Muslim woman in this report: www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29932094 . I spent two tourist days in Egypt and the same amount of time in Indonesia, a majority Muslim state that is secular. Or is it? That's the country that killed a half million or so Communists (actually ethnic Chinese and non-conformists but let's not conflate things) in 1965. The people in Aceh, Sumatra might not view Indonesia as a secular state as they're being lashed and neither would the Christian governor of Jakarta who got convicted of blasphemy. I've been to secular Malaysia several times and I've talked to non-Muslims from there. They feel they're treated like shit by the Muslim authorities. Go there yourself and tell us if your results correspond to mine. Malaysia is an Apartheid state where Muslims are in charge. Those are the only Muslim states I've visited but they're all human rights shitholes. I've never been to 50% Muslim Nigeria but it's a shithole, especially the northern states. Turkey under Erdogan is slowly being transformed into a Muslim theocracy. The Central Asian republics are led by Soviet era tyrants but Islamic rules get lip service. Pakistan, Bangladesh, Brunei are all under Islamic based law. So yeah, I know enough. I'm not the only one. Saddam used to talk about the responsibility of every Arab and ever Muslim, just like Hamas still does. So if it's OK for them to conflate, it's OK for me to do the same. Oh, so it's acceptable to generalize when it comes to political identity but unacceptable when it comes to religion. How interesting.
|
|
|
Post by goz on Nov 6, 2018 0:15:12 GMT
The irony is overwhelming strong here! You are conflating "Feminists arguments" with "women" If you can find me saying anywhere that a woman should inherit half of what a man does, her testimony be only worth half that of a mans, that she should cover up in public. That it is ok to beat a wife who refuses sex or is disobedient. That women should always obey their husbands. That women should require permission of a male guardian to leave the house. That a rapist can only be convicted if the woman shouts for help or if their are two female witnesses. Then go for it. But displaying the typical feminist lack of awareness, continue to claim "disagreement" is sexist oppression and totally the same as what Iranian women suffer. You display a consistently 'shit ' attitude to women. You denigrate me as a feminist on here and you deny that women, in general, are NOT discriminated against. No-one is denying that there are varying levels of discrimination from society to society, yet you deny that modern women still face considerable discrimination despite the evidence.
|
|
|
Post by dividavi on Nov 6, 2018 0:31:54 GMT
The irony is overwhelming strong here! You are conflating "Feminists arguments" with "women" If you can find me saying anywhere that a woman should inherit half of what a man does, her testimony be only worth half that of a mans, that she should cover up in public. That it is ok to beat a wife who refuses sex or is disobedient. That women should always obey their husbands. That women should require permission of a male guardian to leave the house. That a rapist can only be convicted if the woman shouts for help or if their are two female witnesses. Then go for it. But displaying the typical feminist lack of awareness, continue to claim "disagreement" is sexist oppression and totally the same as what Iranian women suffer. Actually it's OK for a Shiite Muslim man to starve his wife if she should not be willing to fuck when he demands it. The law was made official by the secular government imposed by the USA, not by the wicked predecessor Taliban government. Yes, Islam and democracy are a great combination. Here's a clickable summary of the law: It allows a man to withhold food from his wife if she refuses his sexual demands; a woman must get her husband's permission to work; and fathers and grandfathers are given exclusive custody of children.
|
|
|
Post by thorshairspray on Nov 6, 2018 2:30:37 GMT
You are conflating "Feminists arguments" with "women" If you can find me saying anywhere that a woman should inherit half of what a man does, her testimony be only worth half that of a mans, that she should cover up in public. That it is ok to beat a wife who refuses sex or is disobedient. That women should always obey their husbands. That women should require permission of a male guardian to leave the house. That a rapist can only be convicted if the woman shouts for help or if their are two female witnesses. Then go for it. But displaying the typical feminist lack of awareness, continue to claim "disagreement" is sexist oppression and totally the same as what Iranian women suffer. You display a consistently 'shit ' attitude to women. You denigrate me as a feminist on here and you deny that women, in general, are NOT discriminated against. No-one is denying that there are varying levels of discrimination from society to society, yet you deny that modern women still face considerable discrimination despite the evidence. I don't display a shit attitude to women. I display a shit attitude to feminists because you are all full of shit. You being female as nothing to do with it and you cannot find an example of me attacking your gender. Once again you display the typical feminist behaviour of conflating "feminists" with women. Almost nobody is a feminist, Goz, because you're all full of shit.
|
|
|
Post by thorshairspray on Nov 6, 2018 5:20:06 GMT
Karl AkselBlack people in the US are not likely to face the death penalty for being black. Some might fear the government, but that is a narrative massively inflated by activists and general idiots.Its amazing to me that thousands of people are illegally entering The West everyday, given how afraid the existing minorities appear to be.. In Europe, you will not face prison for being a Christian or a Muslim, or a Jew. You are extremely unlikely to be beaten to death because somebody said you disrespected Jesus and your own family is unlikely to kill you for being gay or marrying a person of a different race or religion.
|
|
|
Post by goz on Nov 6, 2018 6:30:53 GMT
You display a consistently 'shit ' attitude to women. You denigrate me as a feminist on here and you deny that women, in general, are NOT discriminated against. No-one is denying that there are varying levels of discrimination from society to society, yet you deny that modern women still face considerable discrimination despite the evidence. I don't display a shit attitude to women. I display a shit attitude to feminists because you are all full of shit. You being female as nothing to do with it and you cannot find an example of me attacking your gender. Once again you display the typical feminist behaviour of conflating "feminists" with women. Almost nobody is a feminist, Goz, because you're all full of shit. Yes you do. You display a shit attitude to me and I am of the female gender AND a woman.
|
|