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Post by Karl Aksel on Nov 6, 2018 7:24:30 GMT
Karl Aksel Black people in the US are not likely to face the death penalty for being black. Is there anything like that for minorities in Muslim countries? I suspect you are thinking of homosexuals, but homosexuality is actually legal in many Muslim countries. Are they as accepting of homosexuality as the West? No, but why would you expect Western morals in non-Western regions? South America isn't at all accepting of homosexuality, either. It's not a religious thing, it's a conservative thing. Muslims living in the West are largely ok with gay people. You'll even find gay friendly mosques if you look for them. You won't in any other country either. What country are you basing this on? You look at Pakistan and pretend every Muslim country is like that?
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Post by Karl Aksel on Nov 6, 2018 7:57:55 GMT
I see. It's now time to to engage in pointless discussion about what differentiates an Islamic state from one that is secular with a Muslim majority. Why on earth is that pointless? No, they have Islam as state religion, so they are not secular. Though they are moving towards secularism, as their laws of 2014 - which prohibits political parties based on religion - demonstrates. Similar to Poland, then, where mosques are attacked with regularity and no arrests made. Hatred of minorities has to do with irrational fears. It does not mean it is sanctioned by either the majority religion itself nor even the government, although the government has to take some of the blame. I am nominally a Protestant. My fiancé is nominally a Catholic. (We're actually both atheists.) A Catholic priest will say I would have to convert to Catholicism in order to marry her. A Protestant priest these days wouldn't be so fussy, but it's not that far back in time that Protestants would insist on the same. And as Islam is the state religion in Egypt, it is hardly surprising it would be in national law as well. In 1965. At that time, almost every European country had blasphemy laws as well. And while Communists weren't killed within the US at that time, the US nevertheless did kill lots of Communists in a police action which was later dubbed the Vietnam War. It is common everywhere in the world for minorities to feel like they are being treated like shit by the authorities. They are usually right. This includes how Muslims are treated in the West. No, you really do not. Two days in Egypt and Indonesia, big whoop. Egypt, in particular, is a popular tourist destination for Europeans, as is Turkey and Dubai. Syria would have been great pre-civil war, and Lebanon is looking better despite official travel warnings. Only if you are both an Arab and Muslim. Because that is the only reason they conflate the two. Just like the Troubles in Northern Ireland, where they conflated nationalist with Catholic and unionist with Protestant. It wasn't a religious conflict at all, but they embraced the religious elements and made it religious - because religion was an identifying marker. Had the unionists all worn bowler hats, they would have conflated bowler hats with British support as well. I didn't say anything like that. I merely pointed out why your comparison was flawed. But yes, it is certainly easier to generalise when it comes to political identity, because political identity is always a much more narrow category. Only a minority of Germans were actually NSDAP members, even though many others supported Hitler. When you take the active step of joining a political party, it stands to reason that you are in agreement with their overall programme.
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Post by thorshairspray on Nov 6, 2018 13:52:54 GMT
I don't display a shit attitude to women. I display a shit attitude to feminists because you are all full of shit. You being female as nothing to do with it and you cannot find an example of me attacking your gender. Once again you display the typical feminist behaviour of conflating "feminists" with women. Almost nobody is a feminist, Goz, because you're all full of shit. Yes you do. You display a shit attitude to me and I am of the female gender AND a woman. Show me where my shit attitude to you is because of your gender and not because of what you are saying. Do you actually think that anytime a man is mean to or dislikes a woman it is sexism?
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Post by thorshairspray on Nov 6, 2018 14:16:51 GMT
Karl AkselHomosexuality is illegal in more Muslim countries than not and where are you getting this "Western Muslims are ok with gays" from? The polls show very different attitudes to homosexuality among British Muslims. And I don't expect non Western nations to have Western values, you're trying to make a moral equivalence between the lives of minorities in The West and those in the Islamic World. Do you actually think black people do well in the Middle EAst? Do you think, given the choice Jews would live in The West or the Middle East and why are the thousands of economic migrants trying to get into Europe and not the Gulf states? You will if you change religion. You will be denied jobs because of it. You will be persecuted by mobs while the state looks the other way. Ask the Christians in Egypt. Or Afghanistan, or Egypt or Indonesia, hell even Turkey saw violent attacks on people not observing Ramadan.
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Post by Karl Aksel on Nov 6, 2018 17:45:18 GMT
Homosexuality is illegal in more Muslim countries than not Just one country is enough to disprove your claim. But fact is, homosexuality is legal in several Muslim countries - and more and more keep following. Why on earth do you expect them to have caught up with the West in this regard? Go back just 50 years and it was illegal in almost every Western country as well. Polls show whatever the pollsters want them to show. Not only do Western countries have more openly gay Muslims, but it also stands to reason that people are affected by local culture. It rubs off. Can't see your point here, sorry. You will be denied jobs in the US if you're an atheist, too. Or a Muslim, for that matter. Also, ask the Muslims in Poland if the West is so great and hospitable. There's a saying about motes and beams, I'm sure of it. Turkey? I doubt that. Afghanistan is still a war zone. Indonesia is also essentially a conflict zone, what with the Papua conflict. Egypt is just simmering down after its latest revolution. Now compare with most Western countries, where there has been no armed conflict within their own borders since WWII. Is there any wonder why there is violence in places which have long been embroiled in violent conflict? The Troubles officially ended in 1998, but the last IRA attack was in 2001. As people get more and more used to peace, however, there is less violence.
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Post by goz on Nov 6, 2018 20:39:49 GMT
Yes you do. You display a shit attitude to me and I am of the female gender AND a woman. Show me where my shit attitude to you is because of your gender and not because of what you are saying. Do you actually think that anytime a man is mean to or dislikes a woman it is sexism? What I am saying is a female standing up for female rights and you don't like it, so you denigrate me as a female doing this. No.
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Post by thorshairspray on Nov 6, 2018 21:06:51 GMT
Show me where my shit attitude to you is because of your gender and not because of what you are saying. Do you actually think that anytime a man is mean to or dislikes a woman it is sexism? What I am saying is a female standing up for female rights and you don't like it, so you denigrate me as a female doing this. No. No... You're a female standing up for womens rights in a way I think is incorrect and dishonest. Thus I denigrate what you say because I believe your assertions to be incorrect and dishonest. I do not denigrate you because you are female. Do you see the difference? Have you attacked me because I'm a man, or because you think I'm sexist?
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Post by goz on Nov 6, 2018 21:20:57 GMT
What I am saying is a female standing up for female rights and you don't like it, so you denigrate me as a female doing this. No. No... You're a female standing up for womens rights in a way I think is incorrect and dishonest. Thus I denigrate what you say because I believe your assertions to be incorrect and dishonest. I do not denigrate you because you are female. Do you see the difference? Have you attacked me because I'm a man, or because you think I'm sexist? ALL available evidence on this topic is that you are sexist. My assertions are neither incorrect no dishonest as I have proven in the articles I have posted and in our discussion. This view is corroborated by governmental agencies. Do you call them and their evidence and finding incorrect and dishonest? You really should contact the Australian Government agency and correct them. Your non-acceptance of them is purely sexist.
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puvo
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Post by puvo on Nov 6, 2018 22:32:48 GMT
No... You're a female standing up for womens rights in a way I think is incorrect and dishonest. Thus I denigrate what you say because I believe your assertions to be incorrect and dishonest. I do not denigrate you because you are female. Do you see the difference? Have you attacked me because I'm a man, or because you think I'm sexist? ALL available evidence on this topic is that you are sexist. My assertions are neither incorrect no dishonest as I have proven in the articles I have posted and in our discussion. This view is corroborated by governmental agencies. Do you call them and their evidence and finding incorrect and dishonest? You really should contact the Australian Government agency and correct them. Your non-acceptance of them is purely sexist. Yet when he asked you to provide some evidence, you didn't provide any. And yeah, your gender wage gap sources were incorrect and dishonest.
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Post by goz on Nov 6, 2018 22:57:50 GMT
ALL available evidence on this topic is that you are sexist. My assertions are neither incorrect no dishonest as I have proven in the articles I have posted and in our discussion. This view is corroborated by governmental agencies. Do you call them and their evidence and finding incorrect and dishonest? You really should contact the Australian Government agency and correct them. Your non-acceptance of them is purely sexist. Yet when he asked you to provide some evidence, you didn't provide any. And yeah, your gender wage gap sources were incorrect and dishonest. Another one? Take it up with the Australian Government agency if you think that you know their subject better than them!
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Post by goz on Nov 6, 2018 23:05:29 GMT
What I am saying is a female standing up for female rights and you don't like it, so you denigrate me as a female doing this. No. No... You're a female standing up for womens rights in a way I think is incorrect and dishonest. Thus I denigrate what you say because I believe your assertions to be incorrect and dishonest. I do not denigrate you because you are female. Do you see the difference? Have you attacked me because I'm a man, or because you think I'm sexist? I usually hate anecdotal evidence, however I was just chatting to a friend who works as a receptionist for a physiotherapist. She works 4 full days a week and job shares with another person who works 1 and a half days as the receptionist. Because both a physios AND the 1 1/2 day staff member left at the same time, the boss had the idea that it would be cost effective to hire a single new staff member, a physiotherapist who would work 4 days a week in their profession, and 1 and 1/2 days as the receptionist. It is illegal in Australia to specify the preferred sex of a future employee in the advertising, however the boss took all the replies and ONLY interviewed the female respondents for, as he explained to my friend, he thought he was much more likely to get a female to be a part time receptionist as well as a professional physiotherapist and it would be cheaper.
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Post by goz on Nov 6, 2018 23:28:05 GMT
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puvo
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Post by puvo on Nov 6, 2018 23:39:34 GMT
Yet when he asked you to provide some evidence, you didn't provide any. And yeah, your gender wage gap sources were incorrect and dishonest. Another one? Take it up with the Australian Government agency if you think that you know their subject better than them! Why would I need to do that? Im happy just pointing out the flaws in gender wage gap stats presented by you people.
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Post by goz on Nov 6, 2018 23:52:50 GMT
Another one? Take it up with the Australian Government agency if you think that you know their subject better than them! Why would I need to do that? Im happy just pointing out the flaws in gender wage gap stats presented by you people. ...because my stats were theirs? see last post. Happy refuting four government agencies and our parliament. Can't wait for the report on their replies!
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Post by puvo on Nov 6, 2018 23:56:33 GMT
Why would I need to do that? Im happy just pointing out the flaws in gender wage gap stats presented by you people. ...because my stats were theirs? see last post. Happy refuting four government agencies and our parliament. Can't wait for the report on their replies! I know where your info comes from. Ive read it. So, why would I need to do that? Im happy just pointing out the flaws in gender wage gap stats presented by you people.
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Post by goz on Nov 7, 2018 0:04:09 GMT
...because my stats were theirs? see last post. Happy refuting four government agencies and our parliament. Can't wait for the report on their replies! I know where your info comes from. Ive read it. So, why would I need to do that? Im happy just pointing out the flaws in gender wage gap stats presented by you people.What 'people'? Why refute the messenger and NOT the sources? I took them from four of our esteemed Government agencies upon which our esteemed government here in Australia base their policies. Quick...if they are wrong you MUST tell them!
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puvo
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Post by puvo on Nov 7, 2018 0:13:42 GMT
I know where your info comes from. Ive read it. So, why would I need to do that? Im happy just pointing out the flaws in gender wage gap stats presented by you people.What 'people'? Why refute the messenger and NOT the sources? I took them from four of our esteemed Government agencies upon which our esteemed government here in Australia base their policies. Quick...if they are wrong you MUST tell them! People like you, generally feminists who think there is a large wage gap based in sexism, and not explained by the choices people make. Because this is a discussion board, and the Australian government doesn't have a profile here discussing topics. YOU are presenting the (flawed) information and trying to make a point with it, therefore in trying to negate YOUR point, YOU are the one I should be talking to about the flawed information/interpretation that YOU are using to make YOUR point. I dont know why you think government websites must contain sacrosanct information.
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Post by goz on Nov 7, 2018 0:38:44 GMT
What 'people'? Why refute the messenger and NOT the sources? I took them from four of our esteemed Government agencies upon which our esteemed government here in Australia base their policies. Quick...if they are wrong you MUST tell them! People like you, generally feminists who think there is a large wage gap based in sexism, and not explained by the choices people make. Because this is a discussion board, and the Australian government doesn't have a profile here discussing topics. YOU are presenting the (flawed) information and trying to make a point with it, therefore in trying to negate YOUR point, YOU are the one I should be talking to about the flawed information/interpretation that YOU are using to make YOUR point. I dont know why you think government websites must contain sacrosanct information.That's a lot of defensive words. MY points were THEIR points direct from FOUR websites. Fact. I took my stats, info AND WIDER interpretation from government websites which are also used as authorities by government to make decisions on issues which affect the community. If YOU know better, prove it. It is that simple.
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puvo
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Post by puvo on Nov 7, 2018 0:52:48 GMT
People like you, generally feminists who think there is a large wage gap based in sexism, and not explained by the choices people make. Because this is a discussion board, and the Australian government doesn't have a profile here discussing topics. YOU are presenting the (flawed) information and trying to make a point with it, therefore in trying to negate YOUR point, YOU are the one I should be talking to about the flawed information/interpretation that YOU are using to make YOUR point. I dont know why you think government websites must contain sacrosanct information.That's a lot of defensive words. MY points were THEIR points direct from FOUR websites. Fact. I took my stats, info AND WIDER interpretation from government websites which are also used as authorities by government to make decisions on issues which affect the community. If YOU know better, prove it. It is that simple. Defensive words? Huh? What makes you think FOUR websites is a big deal? You may have bolded it, but you didn't address it. What makes you think government websites contain sacrosanct information, and that by just claiming they are government websites means it adds to the strength of your point? Poor reasoning is rife in the Australian government, and all governments.
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Post by thorshairspray on Nov 7, 2018 1:00:36 GMT
gozAn assertion is not evidence of the initial assertion, no matter how many times you make it. You have presented nothing other than the assertion that I'm sexist to show I'm sexist. Can you quote anything I've said that attacks you on the basis on your gender? The data you have presented I am not disputing. What I am disputing is your characterisation of it and the reasons you give for it. Men out earn women. This we know. You call this sexism despite accepting that the figures presented do not reflect like for like comparisons, despite presenting evidence YOURSELF than men and women do not take the same educational paths or make the same career choices. That is why you are incorrect and dishonest. You are willing to ignore the fact that women generally work lower paying jobs of their own free will than men, so that you can pretend the discrepancy in earnings is due to oppression.
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