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Post by heeeeey on Nov 21, 2018 12:05:35 GMT
Why would the brain create such an elaborate, detailed, and life-changing experience for someone who's dying or unconscious? Why create experiences of an afterlife, even in atheists who become ex-atheists? Why not just black out into non-existence?
Your unproven explanation can only make sense to twits.
I don't know, it just does. It is a biochemical and electrical anomaly and doesn't happen to everyone so far as we know... as most people actually die and don't come back to re-tell their near death experiences. BTW my explanation is not 'unproven'. These NDE have been induced in experimental situations. It is a recognised phenomenon. "I don't know," and neither do scientists.
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Post by heeeeey on Nov 21, 2018 15:51:12 GMT
Yes, they have been verified asshole. No they haven't, clueless wonder--not with scientific controls in place. Without those, we have no way of weeding out bias and self delusion. You don't know the first thing about the scientific method. By the way Mr. Know-it-all, could you please explain to me why people, including ex-atheists, have virtually the same NDE description? Why in the hell would the brain do that? Why does it create the same kind of experience involving spiritual beings like angels, etc? Why doesn't it create visions of the 'sky faeries' and 'flying spaghetti gods' that your ilk love to use as a metaphor to ridicule the rest of the world?
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Post by goz on Nov 21, 2018 19:42:25 GMT
No they haven't, clueless wonder--not with scientific controls in place. Without those, we have no way of weeding out bias and self delusion. You don't know the first thing about the scientific method. By the way Mr. Know-it-all, could you please explain to me why people, including ex-atheists, have virtually the same NDE description? Why in the hell would the brain do that? Why does it create the same kind of experience involving spiritual beings like angels, etc? Why doesn't it create visions of the 'sky faeries' and 'flying spaghetti gods' that your ilk love to use as a metaphor to ridicule the rest of the world? If you bother to actually read this article it is explained. www.livescience.com/16019-death-experiences-explained.htmlIn short it is the way the dying body's consciousness reacts to changing chemical and electrical levels in the brain. The explanations are there in the link. Read it, and stop wasting everyone's time with your stupidity..
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Post by heeeeey on Nov 21, 2018 19:52:23 GMT
By the way Mr. Know-it-all, could you please explain to me why people, including ex-atheists, have virtually the same NDE description? Why in the hell would the brain do that? Why does it create the same kind of experience involving spiritual beings like angels, etc? Why doesn't it create visions of the 'sky faeries' and 'flying spaghetti gods' that your ilk love to use as a metaphor to ridicule the rest of the world? If you bother to actually read this article it is explained. www.livescience.com/16019-death-experiences-explained.htmlIn short it is the way the dying body's consciousness reacts to changing chemical and electrical levels in the brain. The explanations are there in the link. Read it, and stop wasting everyone's time with your stupidity. "Studies suggest" , NOT prove. GTFO.
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Post by maya55555 on Nov 21, 2018 19:54:16 GMT
goz
Shut up!
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Post by faustus5 on Nov 21, 2018 20:05:43 GMT
I will believe those who have experienced it to those who haven't. It is fine to believe that they are having the experiences they claim to have had. It is just stupid to believe that these experiences are that of a soul wandering around a hospital room. Huge difference. We can explain it. You just won't listen to any science that doesn't tell you what you wanted to believe ahead of time, being that you are an extremely idiotic loser who is proud of being ignorant and clueless.
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Post by goz on Nov 21, 2018 20:09:31 GMT
If you bother to actually read this article it is explained. www.livescience.com/16019-death-experiences-explained.htmlIn short it is the way the dying body's consciousness reacts to changing chemical and electrical levels in the brain. The explanations are there in the link. Read it, and stop wasting everyone's time with your stupidity. "Studies suggest" , NOT prove. GTFO. Faustus et al tried to explain to you how science works and the scientific method. You rejected it in legitimate scientific studies on the brain and yet you have not supplied any studies which prove what consciousness is in your quack world. There is a growing body of scientific knowledge about the state of the brain and consciousness, with each new study or addition to the body of work adding another level of understanding. We have got to the point where 'A 2005 study found that out-of-body experiences can be artificially triggered by stimulating the right temporoparietal junction in the brain, suggesting that confusion regarding sensory information can radically alter how one experiences one's body' .Add to this the useful understanding of brain chemistry and you have research results which are now being used on patients so not necessarily experimental...more mainstream and therapeutic. I guess ' in your limited terms 'proof' is not really necessary if the evidence is sound and the therapeutic measures have some advocacy and therapeutic value. I can't believe that you don't understand any of this?
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Post by faustus5 on Nov 21, 2018 20:10:25 GMT
Why does it create the same kind of experience involving spiritual beings like angels, etc? This is just more proof that you haven't bothered to educate yourself about the realities of the subject. One documented NDE by a kid featured him interacting with Power Ranges. Does this mean you now believe Power Rangers is based on reality and that they inhabit heaven along with angels, shit for brains?
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Post by heeeeey on Nov 21, 2018 20:18:47 GMT
"Studies suggest" , NOT prove. GTFO. Faustus et al tried to explain to you how science works and the scientific method. You rejected it in legitimate scientific studies on the brain and yet you have not supplied any studies which prove what consciousness is in your quack world. There is a growing body of scientific knowledge about the state of the brain and consciousness, with each new study or addition to the body of work adding another level of understanding. We have got to the point where 'A 2005 study found that out-of-body experiences can be artificially triggered by stimulating the right temporoparietal junction in the brain, suggesting that confusion regarding sensory information can radically alter how one experiences one's body' .Add to this the useful understanding of brain chemistry and you have research results which are now being used on patients so not necessarily experimental...more mainstream and therapeutic. I guess ' in your limited terms 'proof' is not really necessary if the evidence is sound and the therapeutic measures have some advocacy and therapeutic value. I can't believe that you don't understand any of this? I already told you that just because they can artificially simulate an experience doesn't negate the original experience. I have no doubt they can manipulate the mind. The mind is not the soul.
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Post by heeeeey on Nov 21, 2018 20:19:54 GMT
Why does it create the same kind of experience involving spiritual beings like angels, etc? This is just more proof that you haven't bothered to educate yourself about the realities of the subject. One documented NDE by a kid featured him interacting with Power Ranges. Does this mean you now believe Power Rangers is based on reality and that they inhabit heaven along with angels, shit for brains? One? Well, there are thousands of the others.
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Post by faustus5 on Nov 21, 2018 20:22:17 GMT
One? Well, there are thousands of the others. No, there are plenty more that show people have NDE's based on the culture they come from. There are also a lot of shared things in common that point to shared brain structures, but when folks have content with "beings" that seem to be intelligent, it always seems to be consistent with the religion of the culture they grew up in.
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Post by goz on Nov 21, 2018 20:50:26 GMT
Faustus et al tried to explain to you how science works and the scientific method. You rejected it in legitimate scientific studies on the brain and yet you have not supplied any studies which prove what consciousness is in your quack world. There is a growing body of scientific knowledge about the state of the brain and consciousness, with each new study or addition to the body of work adding another level of understanding. We have got to the point where 'A 2005 study found that out-of-body experiences can be artificially triggered by stimulating the right temporoparietal junction in the brain, suggesting that confusion regarding sensory information can radically alter how one experiences one's body' .Add to this the useful understanding of brain chemistry and you have research results which are now being used on patients so not necessarily experimental...more mainstream and therapeutic. I guess ' in your limited terms 'proof' is not really necessary if the evidence is sound and the therapeutic measures have some advocacy and therapeutic value. I can't believe that you don't understand any of this? I already told you that just because they can artificially simulate an experience doesn't negate the original experience. I have no doubt they can manipulate the mind. The mind is not the soul. OK. The original experience is a natural phenomenon ie caused by complex chemical and electrical reactions in the brain consciousness. Since there IS no such thing as a soul, you are correct. The mind is NOT the soul. The mind however DOES govern our every thought, and when it dies, we die. IN scientific method, the experience is now also able to be reproduced on demand. There is NO proof ( in your terms) of a soul, and certainly none that such a thing could or in fact, does live on after death because the host of the consciousness, ie the mind/brain consciousness...is dead. CAPUT. No one is disputing that near death experiences happens and out of body experiences happen, and that there is a perfectly logical physical chemical and electrical explanation for them. After a week you are NOW saying that soul and consciousness is 'God'. He is a little late to the party, don't you think, since we have been through a host of other stupid suggestions like 'dens frequencies or some other such nonsense You are talking out your arse.? You have no evidence of anything else except a ridiculous faith based 'God of the Gaps scenario. End of Story.
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Post by heeeeey on Nov 21, 2018 21:14:56 GMT
I already told you that just because they can artificially simulate an experience doesn't negate the original experience. I have no doubt they can manipulate the mind. The mind is not the soul. OK. The original experience is a natural phenomenon ie caused by complex chemical and electrical reactions in the brain consciousness. Since there IS no such thing as a soul, you are correct. The mind is NOT the soul. The mind however DOES govern our every thought, and when it dies, we die. IN scientific method, the experience is now also able to be reproduced on demand. There is NO proof ( in your terms) of a soul, and certainly none that such a thing could or in fact, does live on after death because the host of the consciousness, ie the mind/brain consciousness...is dead. CAPUT. No one is disputing that near death experiences happens and out of body experiences happen, and that there is a perfectly logical physical chemical and electrical explanation for them. After a week you are NOW saying that soul and consciousness is 'God'. He is a little late to the party, don't you think, since we have been through a host of other stupid suggestions like 'dens frequencies or some other such nonsense You are talking out your arse.? You have no evidence of anything else except a ridiculous faith based 'God of the Gaps scenario. End of Story. The 'perfectly logical explanation' (read: not proof) is not logical at all. The arrogance of you and faustus5 is astounding. You two twits and your 'studies' think that is the end all and be all of the universe when the fact is neither of you know shit.
How would you like it if someone who has never been pregnant told you what it's like to be pregnant and give birth, and they told you you only 'imagined' the pain and that it was just brain chemicals? How would you like it?
Like I said, I will believe an experiencer before I buy any crap studies by arrogant, pompous asses.
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Post by goz on Nov 21, 2018 21:27:03 GMT
OK. The original experience is a natural phenomenon ie caused by complex chemical and electrical reactions in the brain consciousness. Since there IS no such thing as a soul, you are correct. The mind is NOT the soul. The mind however DOES govern our every thought, and when it dies, we die. IN scientific method, the experience is now also able to be reproduced on demand. There is NO proof ( in your terms) of a soul, and certainly none that such a thing could or in fact, does live on after death because the host of the consciousness, ie the mind/brain consciousness...is dead. CAPUT. No one is disputing that near death experiences happens and out of body experiences happen, and that there is a perfectly logical physical chemical and electrical explanation for them. After a week you are NOW saying that soul and consciousness is 'God'. He is a little late to the party, don't you think, since we have been through a host of other stupid suggestions like 'dens frequencies or some other such nonsense You are talking out your arse.? You have no evidence of anything else except a ridiculous faith based 'God of the Gaps scenario. End of Story. The 'perfectly logical explanation' (read: not proof) is not logical at all. The arrogance of you and faustus5 is astounding. You two twits and your 'studies' think that is the end all and be all of the universe when the fact is neither of you know shit.
How would you like it if someone who has never been pregnant told you what it's like to be pregnant and give birth, and they told you you only 'imagined' the pain and that it was just brain chemicals? How would you like it?
Like I said, I will believe an experiencer before I buy any crap studies by arrogant, pompous asses.
I guess you never go to the doctor? Seeing as how they are merely arrogant pompous arses, who have studied for years in medical school? So I guess you totally discount all the studies that have cured diseases over the years by these scientists and doctors? You are an idiot. Plain and simple. WHY would you believe someone who claimed to have experienced a NDE over a doctor who could explain all the phenomena that person experienced? They only knew what they felt in that time of hypoxia, which is delusional and not the normal functioning of a normal healthy brain. It is NOT supernatural, it is entirely natural. The fallacy of God and soul don't come into the equation.
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Post by heeeeey on Nov 21, 2018 22:06:17 GMT
The 'perfectly logical explanation' (read: not proof) is not logical at all. The arrogance of you and faustus5 is astounding. You two twits and your 'studies' think that is the end all and be all of the universe when the fact is neither of you know shit.
How would you like it if someone who has never been pregnant told you what it's like to be pregnant and give birth, and they told you you only 'imagined' the pain and that it was just brain chemicals? How would you like it?
Like I said, I will believe an experiencer before I buy any crap studies by arrogant, pompous asses.
I guess you never go to the doctor? Seeing as how they are merely arrogant pompous arses, who have studied for years in medical school? So I guess you totally discount all the studies that have cured diseases over the years by these scientists and doctors? You are an idiot. Plain and simple. WHY would you believe someone who claimed to have experienced a NDE over a doctor who could explain all the phenomena that person experienced? They only knew what they felt in that time of hypoxia, which is delusional and not the normal functioning of a normal healthy brain. It is NOT supernatural, it is entirely natural. The fallacy of God and soul don't come into the equation. What diseases have they 'cured'? They treat symptoms with drugs. They are glorified drug pushers in the pocket of big pharma. The last time I went to the doctor, it was for mild back pain. Taking a couple of aspirin was enough but I just wanted to know what was causing it. She put a container of hydrocodone in my hand and whispered to me to don't give any to anyone else. Even I knew that drug was too strong for what I had. You, nor any of those scientists have had an NDE, so they can't know what it is they're even studying. They're studying the brain and the mind. Again, the mind is not the soul. I answered your question. Can someone who has never been pregnant tell you what it's like? No, because you've experienced it. To suggest that hypoxia would produce the same experience in most NDEs is the conclusion of pompous asses who can't admit they don't know for sure what it is. All the atheist doctors and scientists who have experienced an NDE became ex-atheists, and stopped being pompous asses too.
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