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Post by heeeeey on Jan 14, 2019 8:21:57 GMT
The ones as famous as MJ might though, especially when there had been accusations in the past.
I think he was horribly abused himself as a child, and might have even been castrated to keep his falsetto voice, but that wouldn't be any kind of excuse for what he did.
No. MJ is not all pedophiles and he certainly didn't change his pattern after he was discovered. No, he hasn't been castrated, that is ridiculous. You keep that voice through practise, practise and practise. His real voice, btw, as has been accounted by many, was deep and sonor. He maintained that voice because he became famous as a child and he wanted to be remembered as such. He had absolute control of that 'instrument'. That's ridiculous. He had recordings for people to 'remember' him by as a child. What kind of singer wants to sound like a 10-year-old after they become an adult?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2019 8:48:44 GMT
No. MJ is not all pedophiles and he certainly didn't change his pattern after he was discovered. No, he hasn't been castrated, that is ridiculous. You keep that voice through practise, practise and practise. His real voice, btw, as has been accounted by many, was deep and sonor. He maintained that voice because he became famous as a child and he wanted to be remembered as such. He had absolute control of that 'instrument'. That's ridiculous. He had recordings for people to 'remember' him by as a child. What kind of singer wants to sound like a 10-year-old after they become an adult? The kind that wants to sell 40 million copies of one single album and be the most successful entertainer of all times. That voice was his trademark.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jan 14, 2019 8:53:54 GMT
There was a documentary on him-he would buy weird stuff at a store--he was the store's only patron. The owner said he was the one keeping him in business.
He sure got creepy with the plastic surgery but lots of people do the same now.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jan 14, 2019 9:25:42 GMT
"But I thought that what Michael was telling me was okay. How could I think differently? He had been almost all over the world, and had been surrounded by great minds, like Michael Milken and movie director Steven Spielberg. He read and wrote a lot, and he was very successful. Why would I think that Michael would lie to me? If he wanted to tell me, fine. I did not ask him questions, at least, not during those days"
I remember he wanted to be Peter Pan in a Spielberg movie and he said "I love Steven so much." I would be creeped out to be loved by Michael Jackson--then again there's speculation about SS and the pedos too.
Michael Jackson had serious problems.
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Post by clusium on Jan 14, 2019 15:30:04 GMT
That makes sense, but the family of tne second boy is even worse IMO. Why wpuld you let ypur kid spend the night in his home if there was even a question of a prior act? I agree in your take on the parents exploiting their children, or as you put it, a form of prostitution. This was the 80's though, a big yuppie era, where money and material gain was seen as the ultimate hedonistic pleasure and how the measure of persons success and standing was based on their lifestyle only.
MJ was as eccentric as they come and his fortune amassed was due to his creative talent, but his psychological issues ran so much deeper and we know that he got away with his bizarre behavior due to who he was. He was damaged goods, but it just didn't appear to be questioned as much then, over 30yrs ago as it is now. Or if it was, a blind eye was turned. It was about the connection and ties and the parents wanting to give their children something they could remember as well. Due to ignorance and naivety, the parents wouldn't have figured on the notoriety that would be reaped in the wake of their own gullible exploitation of their sons.
The media has played up on a lot of this as well and conflicting stories don't often give full credibility to those that claimed abuse. One has to ask, are they really damaged goods themselves as adults like MJ was, or is the victim-hood agenda being exploited to make a quick buck? This is how the system feeds and thrives.
MJ is now deceased and in a sense he paid the ultimate price at a fairly young age. Even if he was a child sex abuser, he was like a child himself and he was also narcissistic to the extreme. He needed help more than anything, and his good friends and wife, like Lisa Marie Presley and Liz Taylor were there to support him. He wanted to live a childhood as an adult, that he felt he was denied due to his own father exploiting his talent, along with his brothers and the abuse that was inflicted on them as well.
In spite of the façade of fame, glitz and glamour, the Jackson Clan story is a messy tale and rife with plenty of its own skeletons and demons. All of this needs to be put into context of the era as well. People need to move on from disgust and hatred for MJ, for something that they can have no control over, especially a dead artist who we now know, would never get away with the behavior that MJ did in the 80's and early 90's and the whole picture surrounding him is too tainted and smeared to reveal the full truth.
Most child sex abusers are like children themselves. That is why they are sexually attracted to children.
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Post by heeeeey on Jan 14, 2019 16:46:43 GMT
That's ridiculous. He had recordings for people to 'remember' him by as a child. What kind of singer wants to sound like a 10-year-old after they become an adult? The kind that wants to sell 40 million copies of one single album and be the most successful entertainer of all times. That voice was his trademark. He was always a better child singer. After he grew up, I couldn't stand his hooting and crotch-grabbing routine. The only songs I like of his are when he was with the J5:
Very sad what he turned into.
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Post by clusium on Jan 14, 2019 19:04:57 GMT
The kind that wants to sell 40 million copies of one single album and be the most successful entertainer of all times. That voice was his trademark. He was always a better child singer. After he grew up, I couldn't stand his hooting and crotch-grabbing routine. The only songs I like of his are when he was with the J5:
Very sad what he turned into.
I loved his music from his album, Thriller.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2019 22:25:42 GMT
That makes sense, but the family of tne second boy is even worse IMO. Why wpuld you let ypur kid spend the night in his home if there was even a question of a prior act? This was the 80's though, a big yuppie era, where money and material gain was seen as the ultimate hedonistic pleasure and how the measure of persons success and standing was based on their lifestyle only.
You think this is different now? I think we are as materialistic and hedonistic as it gets.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2019 22:26:47 GMT
It is like the Catholic religion and abuse stories, yet people are still shocked when children are abused by priests. The Catholic Church is one of the biggest pedophile organisations in the world.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2019 22:28:08 GMT
The kind that wants to sell 40 million copies of one single album and be the most successful entertainer of all times. That voice was his trademark. He was always a better child singer. After he grew up, I couldn't stand his hooting and crotch-grabbing routine. The only songs I like of his are when he was with the J5:
Very sad what he turned into.
He was a good singer. Most singers can't sing his songs. His songs are very difficult.
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Post by clusium on Jan 14, 2019 23:27:03 GMT
It is like the Catholic religion and abuse stories, yet people are still shocked when children are abused by priests. The Catholic Church is one of the biggest pedophile organisations in the world. No its not. 2356 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church: " Rape is the forcible violation of the sexual intimacy of another person. It does injury to justice and charity. Rape deeply the respect, freedom, and physical and moral integrity to which every person has a right. It causes grave damage that can mark the victim for life. It is always an intrinsically evil act. Graver still, is the rape of children committed by parents (incest) or those responsible for the education of the children entrusted to them." Rape According To the Catechism of the Catholic Church
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2019 23:35:47 GMT
You think this is different now? I think we are as materialistic and hedonistic as it gets. However, to my mind, the attitude and approach to things did not appear as scrutinized as it is now. Remember also, technology was still evolving and in inceptive phases, there was no internet and many things were still quite new and original. I am not old enough to judge it, nonetheless, I read that 70s and 80s marked the beginning and we have only advanced since then. Look at politics and esp. tax laws. People voted for Trump, FFS, because he said he was "rich".
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2019 23:38:34 GMT
The Catholic Church is one of the biggest pedophile organisations in the world. No its not. 2356 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church: " Rape is the forcible violation of the sexual intimacy of another person. It does injury to justice and charity. Rape deeply the respect, freedom, and physical and moral integrity to which every person has a right. It causes grave damage that can mark the victim for life. It is always an intrinsically evil act. Graver still, is the rape of children committed by parents (incest) or those responsible for the education of the children entrusted to them." Rape According To the Catechism of the Catholic ChurchThey don't care about it. Don't you read about the scandals? Worldwide?
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Post by clusium on Jan 14, 2019 23:47:27 GMT
No its not. 2356 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church: " Rape is the forcible violation of the sexual intimacy of another person. It does injury to justice and charity. Rape deeply the respect, freedom, and physical and moral integrity to which every person has a right. It causes grave damage that can mark the victim for life. It is always an intrinsically evil act. Graver still, is the rape of children committed by parents (incest) or those responsible for the education of the children entrusted to them." Rape According To the Catechism of the Catholic ChurchThey don't care about it. Don't you read about the scandals? Worldwide? I am very aware of them - just as I am very aware of all sex scandals in all institutions & all cultures.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2019 23:49:10 GMT
They don't care about it. Don't you read about the scandals? Worldwide? I am very aware of them - just as I am very aware of all sex scandals in all institutions & all cultures. 1. They happen more inside CC than within other institutions. Which is already bad enough. 2. It becomes worse because of their moral authority and their moral entitlement. Ergo, that's a bad defense, a strawman argument.
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Post by clusium on Jan 14, 2019 23:53:00 GMT
I am very aware of them - just as I am very aware of all sex scandals in all institutions & all cultures. 1. They happen more inside CC than within other institutions. Which is already bad enough. 2. It becomes worse because of their moral authority and their moral entitlement. Ergo, that's a bad defense, a strawman argument. No it doesn't actually. It's just that the media focuses more on the Catholic Church, than it does with all the other groups. However, it is with very good reason why: Because the Catholic Church is SUPPOSED to be the moral authority of the world, so when members of her clergy are caught doing things like this, & their Bishops covering it up, then they have failed to live up to her duties.
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Post by clusium on Jan 14, 2019 23:54:26 GMT
No its not. 2356 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church: " Rape is the forcible violation of the sexual intimacy of another person. It does injury to justice and charity. Rape deeply the respect, freedom, and physical and moral integrity to which every person has a right. It causes grave damage that can mark the victim for life. It is always an intrinsically evil act. Graver still, is the rape of children committed by parents (incest) or those responsible for the education of the children entrusted to them." Rape According To the Catechism of the Catholic ChurchSo this is the Catholic Church passing the buck onto the parents, for sending them to their rapey institutions. Parents are not an affiliated organization and they entrust their children into the duty of care of them. Perhaps the biggest crime here of the parents, is denial and ignorance, but then the same can be said for the CC. No, the Catholic Church is acknowledging from its own MOUTH that the rape of children is an intrinsically evil act.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2019 23:55:54 GMT
1. They happen more inside CC than within other institutions. Which is already bad enough. 2. It becomes worse because of their moral authority and their moral entitlement. Ergo, that's a bad defense, a strawman argument. No it doesn't actually. It's just that the media focuses more on the Catholic Church, than it does with all the other groups. However, it is with very good reason why: Because the Catholic Church is SUPPOSED to be the moral authority of the world, so when members of her clergy are caught doing things like this, & their Bishops covering it up, then they have failed to live up to her duties. Maybe the reason the media focuses on the CC is the frequency with which it happens. All of this turns the clergy and its members into hypocrites. It's not like people didn't need spiritual guidance and counsel. But it's hard to turn to such an institution when they are even worse than you are.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2019 23:57:29 GMT
So this is the Catholic Church passing the buck onto the parents, for sending them to their rapey institutions. Parents are not an affiliated organization and they entrust their children into the duty of care of them. Perhaps the biggest crime here of the parents, is denial and ignorance, but then the same can be said for the CC. No, the Catholic Church is acknowledging from its own MOUTH that the rape of children is an intrinsically evil act. But it seems to apply only to those who don't belong to the clergy. Most of them don't even face criminal, 'wordly' punishment because the CC "takes care of it".
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Post by clusium on Jan 14, 2019 23:59:06 GMT
No it doesn't actually. It's just that the media focuses more on the Catholic Church, than it does with all the other groups. However, it is with very good reason why: Because the Catholic Church is SUPPOSED to be the moral authority of the world, so when members of her clergy are caught doing things like this, & their Bishops covering it up, then they have failed to live up to her duties. Maybe the reason the media focuses on the CC is the frequency with which it happens. All of this turns the clergy and its members into hypocrites. It's not like people didn't need spiritual guidance and counsel. But it's hard to turn to such an institution when they are even worse than you are. I agree. Those priests & those Bishops were hypocrites, and so would all other Catholics agree. One reason for the frequency though, is because not only is the Catholic Church the oldest denomination of the Christian religion, but, it is also the LARGEST denomination of the Christian religion, & Christianity itself, is the largest religion in the whole world.
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