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Post by Reggie_Stration on May 8, 2019 11:08:38 GMT
Sad that they haven't been able to maintain the same standards going into this final season. And I'm not even just talking about the standards set in the first 4 seasons, which are regarded by many to be the show's peak period. If it could have been along the same quality as season 6 it would have been good enough. It feels like now in season 8, more than ever the departure from the books has taken its toll on the characters and the plot.
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Post by xystophoros on May 9, 2019 1:38:50 GMT
The way I look at it, GoT is not only the most successful book to TV adaptation of all time, it’s the most successful television show of all time, a show that is not only the most-watched and most-pirated, it’s also changed the cultural landscape and introduced new words and phrases into the cultural lexicon, phrases like “Winter is coming” and “Bend the knee” and “Valar Morghulis.” If we have any doubt of its significance, just look at the US birth statistics and see how many little girls are being named Arya, Daenerys, Sansa and Khaleesi. I’d say that’s pretty incredible. Okay, but so what? Yes, the show is immensely popular and has been a pop-culture behemoth over the course of its run. Why is any of that relevant to the matter at hand? Why does the fact that idiots call their babies "Khaleesi" mean that the show should be immune from criticism? Did I say the show should be immune to criticism? No? Then why claim I said that? My point was that it’s not fair to say the showrunners and HBO are at fault for narrative shortcomings, since they signed up to adapt GRRM’s series, not write it for him. If people perceive a drop-off in story quality, that’s on GRRM for failing to finish a series he started in the early 1990s You cannot compare a six-episode narrative arc written in a few months to a 5,000-page epic that has been in development for 25 years.
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Post by xystophoros on May 9, 2019 1:51:11 GMT
Sad that they haven't been able to maintain the same standards going into this final season. And I'm not even just talking about the standards set in the first 4 seasons, which are regarded by many to be the show's peak period. If it could have been along the same quality as season 6 it would have been good enough. It feels like now in season 8, more than ever the departure from the books has taken its toll on the characters and the plot. What books? If The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring existed, then we could say the show deviated from the books. Since they do not exist at this point, the showrunners were forced to write original material in a very short window of time against a hard deadline. If TWOW is released in 2020, it will have been almost 10 years since Martin released ADWD and 20 years since he wrote the third book, which is widely considered the last “great” novel in the series. Why would we expect Benioff and Weiss to do it in six months or less under enormous pressure with the task of completing the production hanging over their heads?
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shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on May 9, 2019 2:08:31 GMT
What books? If The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring existed, then we could say the show deviated from the books. Since they do not exist at this point, the showrunners were forced to write original material in a very short window of time against a hard deadline. If TWOW is released in 2020, it will have been almost 10 years since Martin released ADWD and 20 years since he wrote the third book, which is widely considered the last “great” novel in the series. Why would we expect Benioff and Weiss to do it in six months or less under enormous pressure with the task of completing the production hanging over their heads? I'll piggyback your comment and add that they had to do this without help from George R.R. Martin, who stopped writing for the show after S04E02 ("The Lion and the Rose"). Martin's reason given at the time was to "focus on Winds of Winter"...
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Post by xystophoros on May 9, 2019 2:20:29 GMT
What books? If The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring existed, then we could say the show deviated from the books. Since they do not exist at this point, the showrunners were forced to write original material in a very short window of time against a hard deadline. If TWOW is released in 2020, it will have been almost 10 years since Martin released ADWD and 20 years since he wrote the third book, which is widely considered the last “great” novel in the series. Why would we expect Benioff and Weiss to do it in six months or less under enormous pressure with the task of completing the production hanging over their heads? I'll piggyback your comment and add that they had to do this without help from George R.R. Martin, who stopped writing for the show after S04E02 ("The Lion and the Rose"). Martin's reason given at the time was to "focus on Winds of Winter"... Martin has been complaining to the press about how GoT is ending, which is unbelievable. He’s whining about Bronn getting too much screen time(?!), says this shouldn’t be the last season, and apparently doesn’t like whatever is going to happen in the next two episodes. What makes it even worse is that he’s a TV guy, a long-time writer for several shows, so he knows exactly how difficult it is to make a TV show, and the fact that you need the material to be written well before production begins because of the logistics involved.
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Post by sdm3 on May 9, 2019 2:43:17 GMT
Okay, but so what? Yes, the show is immensely popular and has been a pop-culture behemoth over the course of its run. Why is any of that relevant to the matter at hand? Why does the fact that idiots call their babies "Khaleesi" mean that the show should be immune from criticism? Did I say the show should be immune to criticism? No? Then why claim I said that? My point was that it’s not fair to say the showrunners and HBO are at fault for narrative shortcomings, since they signed up to adapt GRRM’s series, not write it for him. If people perceive a drop-off in story quality, that’s on GRRM for failing to finish a series he started in the early 1990s You cannot compare a six-episode narrative arc written in a few months to a 5,000-page epic that has been in development for 25 years. You’re responding to someone who’s being critical of the show by talking about how popular it is. And are we really not supposed to hold the writers accountable for the suffering quality of the writing just because it’s not their original story? Are they professionals, or schoolchildren? “It’s not their fault! They don’t have any material to copy from!” Why should they get all of the praise for making the show great (and popular, as you’ve pointed out several times) but none of the blame for the quality dropping?
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 9, 2019 5:31:17 GMT
Sad that they haven't been able to maintain the same standards going into this final season. And I'm not even just talking about the standards set in the first 4 seasons, which are regarded by many to be the show's peak period. If it could have been along the same quality as season 6 it would have been good enough. Season 6 was utter trash, dumbed down to please stupid masses. There is no excusing this evolution, it is the result of a conscious choice.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 9, 2019 5:33:54 GMT
Okay, but so what? Yes, the show is immensely popular and has been a pop-culture behemoth over the course of its run. Why is any of that relevant to the matter at hand? Why does the fact that idiots call their babies "Khaleesi" mean that the show should be immune from criticism? Did I say the show should be immune to criticism? No? Then why claim I said that? My point was that it’s not fair to say the showrunners and HBO are at fault for narrative shortcomings, They are because they dumbed down on purpose. The writing is not what takes time or money. I could have come with something infinitely better and they could have too if they had wanted to.
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Post by hehatesshe on May 9, 2019 5:37:02 GMT
Why would the admin move this thread? It was very nice having it on the sports board and not having to see Leo's repetitive drivel.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 9, 2019 5:46:40 GMT
Did I say the show should be immune to criticism? No? Then why claim I said that? My point was that it’s not fair to say the showrunners and HBO are at fault for narrative shortcomings, They are because they dumbed down on purpose. The writing is not what takes time or money. I could have come with something infinitely better and they could have too if they had wanted to. Here's why and how the show was dumbed down.
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Post by xystophoros on May 9, 2019 5:53:18 GMT
Did I say the show should be immune to criticism? No? Then why claim I said that? My point was that it’s not fair to say the showrunners and HBO are at fault for narrative shortcomings, They are because they dumbed down on purpose. The writing is not what takes time or money. I could have come with something infinitely better and they could have too if they had wanted to. If writing doesn’t take time then why is GRRM approaching three decades of working on ASOIAF? Professionals make it their job to keep writing even when inspiration fails them, and they organize their work with character sheets and plot grids, but writing is still a creative exercise and it takes time for things to come together.
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Post by sdm3 on May 9, 2019 5:55:27 GMT
Why would the admin move this thread? It was very nice having it on the sports board and not having to see Leo's repetitive drivel. The admin seems to have started a bit of a purge in moving threads to more relevant boards. I agree it’s annoying. The point of having OT threads on particular boards is to discuss solely within that particular community.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 9, 2019 6:38:01 GMT
They are because they dumbed down on purpose. The writing is not what takes time or money. I could have come with something infinitely better and they could have too if they had wanted to. If writing doesn’t take time then why is GRRM approaching three decades of working on ASOIAF? Professionals make it their job to keep writing even when inspiration fails them, and they organize their work with character sheets and plot grids, but writing is still a creative exercise and it takes time for things to come together. Martin takes time because he has blown up the scope and feels compelled to describe Dornish recipes in the process. Do I have to point you out as an idiot for not seeing this? Yes, I have to, just so you know it shows. I wouldn't call him a professional anyway, just a self-indulgent fuck who got lucky.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on May 9, 2019 8:22:38 GMT
Why would the admin move this thread? It was very nice having it on the sports board and not having to see Leo's repetitive drivel. Couldn't have said it better myself. There's a reason I don't talk about the show on the designated board that much and that's it. Guess I could throw the Cercei lover on ignore but that's dumb.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 9, 2019 8:42:21 GMT
Why would the admin move this thread? It was very nice having it on the sports board and not having to see Leo's repetitive drivel. Couldn't have said it better myself. There's a reason I don't talk about the show on the designated board that much and that's it. Guess I could throw the Cercei lover on ignore but that's dumb.
Morons don't like to be shown the mirror. I guess it makes sense. I also know the stupid inclusive kind who displays an aversion towards displaying aversion for others. They want to show openness to the world, best precondition to getting fucked I suppose. Hope you do, don't care if you like it, though.
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Post by xystophoros on May 10, 2019 1:19:20 GMT
If writing doesn’t take time then why is GRRM approaching three decades of working on ASOIAF? Professionals make it their job to keep writing even when inspiration fails them, and they organize their work with character sheets and plot grids, but writing is still a creative exercise and it takes time for things to come together. Martin takes time because he has blown up the scope and feels compelled to describe Dornish recipes in the process. Do I have to point you out as an idiot for not seeing this? Yes, I have to, just so you know it shows. I wouldn't call him a professional anyway, just a self-indulgent fuck who got lucky. Oh right, I forgot, you’re the rancid vaginal blister whining about GoT on the internet and claiming you can do a better job than the showrunners. Most-watched TV show of all time, most pirated TV show of all time, most profitable TV show of all time, the highest budget, largest cast and biggest logistical challenge of any TV show in history, shelves full of Emmys and other awards, lines of dialog that have entered the worldwide public consciousness, thousands of babies named after the show’s characters. But Leo of Redkeep, Internet rando extraordinaire, Protector of His Mother’s Basement, Eater of Hot Pockets, can do better. Because he says so. So tell us which shows you run, regale us with a list of bestselling novels you’ve written, eh? No? Then close your manpleaser and run along.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 10, 2019 3:49:00 GMT
Martin takes time because he has blown up the scope and feels compelled to describe Dornish recipes in the process. Do I have to point you out as an idiot for not seeing this? Yes, I have to, just so you know it shows. I wouldn't call him a professional anyway, just a self-indulgent fuck who got lucky. Oh right, I forgot, you’re the rancid vaginal blister whining about GoT on the internet and claiming you can do a better job than the showrunners. Most-watched TV show of all time, most pirated TV show of all time, most profitable TV show of all time, the highest budget, largest cast and biggest logistical challenge of any TV show in history, shelves full of Emmys and other awards, lines of dialog that have entered the worldwide public consciousness, thousands of babies named after the show’s characters. But Leo of Redkeep, Internet rando extraordinaire, Protector of His Mother’s Basement, Eater of Hot Pockets, can do better. Because he says so. So tell us which shows you run, regale us with a list of bestselling novels you’ve written, eh? Oh, the quality is quantity fallacy. I knew I didn't have to take anything you say seriously but you prove it faster than could be hoped for. Now flush yourself.
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Post by Aj_June on May 10, 2019 9:53:06 GMT
A bit of a problem is that people do not adjust their expectations. Of course season 8 is not at par with earlier seasons. But ep6 of S7 should have been a catalyst for people to downgrade their expectations. I for one am satisfied with this season so far because I had lower expectations. Although I would say they did a bit of mistake in incorrectly using Jon Snow in the battle of Winterfell. As for the whole "I couldn't see anything group", the episode's name was "the long night" and it was expected to be dark. The Night King was creating cold storms to cover everything in darkness so I am not sure how it could have been any different. That said I have a bad feeling that we might not get a bittersweet ending that was promised. The latest trailer insinuates Dany as a kind of future villain. It might actually turn into a tragedy than a bittersweet ending. Now I guess that different people will have different take on that and some might enjoy an all Stark victory. I probably won't. I wanted Arya to be dead by the end but it seems they won't kill her.
Why do you want to see her die? Anyway I think you’ll get your wish, after what we saw last night. She’s planning on doing a lot of slaughtering when she gets to King’s Landing, and doesn’t seem confident she’ll survive. I wish to see her die a heroic death. It is because of how complex her journey has been and how frequently she has been associated with death. Wheather you take her as a lone wolf or the person who stole 3 people from the god of death as interpreted by Jaqen. She is one of the rare characters in the show who always cared for people because she empathizes with people and not because she is a noble person who sees people as her subjects. She is a kind, brave and a fair person and even cared for butcher boy and many others. Although she has already become a great hero by killing the Night King so I am not entirely sure she would die now.
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Post by xystophoros on May 10, 2019 10:04:15 GMT
Did I say the show should be immune to criticism? No? Then why claim I said that? My point was that it’s not fair to say the showrunners and HBO are at fault for narrative shortcomings, since they signed up to adapt GRRM’s series, not write it for him. If people perceive a drop-off in story quality, that’s on GRRM for failing to finish a series he started in the early 1990s You cannot compare a six-episode narrative arc written in a few months to a 5,000-page epic that has been in development for 25 years. You’re responding to someone who’s being critical of the show by talking about how popular it is. And are we really not supposed to hold the writers accountable for the suffering quality of the writing just because it’s not their original story? Are they professionals, or schoolchildren? “It’s not their fault! They don’t have any material to copy from!” Why should they get all of the praise for making the show great (and popular, as you’ve pointed out several times) but none of the blame for the quality dropping? Read above instead of putting words in my mouth. The distinction is really not difficult to understand.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2019 0:48:30 GMT
So apparently Aaron Rodgers is going to be in Sunday's episode. (Pretending this is still back on the sports board.)
I love the man but I hope he doesn't have any lines because based off his commercials his acting is trash. Then again put Aaron Rodgers in Winterfell where he can be King of the North and give him a scene with Sansa and in comparison it would make Sophie Turner look like Meryl Streep.
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