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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 5:21:26 GMT
My "leaving the theater conversation" got me thinking about this very question.. I saw Captain Marvel with my cousin. He loves the new Star Wars movies while I despise them. I enjoyed (but did not love) Captain Marvel while he hated it. What was curious though is that his reasons for disliking Carol were the same as my reasons for disliking Rey. So I wondered, how are these character able to evoke the same response from different people...
Rey and Carol have different mindsets at the beginnings of their respective stories: Rey is waiting for something that will never happen while Carol is basically brainwashed by the Kree. But...Both characters essentially grow to have the same epiphany: "I am awesome. I was always awesome. And it's time to finally embrace my awesome awesomeness"
Rey overcomes her abandonment issues while Carol overcomes her oppressors (both the Kree and the psychological oppressors of her past) but neither have to change in any real way. Neither have to overcome any actual flaws in their own character. To be fair, self doubt could be considered such a flaw, and is perfectly capable of sustaining a character arc. But it also makes for thin, undeveloped characters because all of their failings can be attributed not to their own faults, but to their own misconception that they even have faults to begin with.
So... Why do I still dislike Rey but not Carol? Hard to say. Perhaps it's because I hold Star Wars sacred, but went into Captain Marvel with low expectations? I wonder.
What are your thoughts?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 5:29:58 GMT
I should add that I post this against my own better judgement... I want to inspire some intelligent discourse and character analysis with this thread. So please don't troll here. Save that for Norman's threads.
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Post by hobowar on Mar 15, 2019 5:30:44 GMT
Did Captain America or Vision have to overcome any flaws?
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Post by hobowar on Mar 15, 2019 5:32:24 GMT
I should add that I post this against my own better judgement... I want to inspire some intelligent discourse and character analysis with this thread. So please don't troll here. Save that for Norman's threads.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 15, 2019 5:34:20 GMT
No. I already addressed this in a previous post. CM is not a mary sue like Rey. That's why you don't dislike Danvers.
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Post by darkpast on Mar 15, 2019 7:15:57 GMT
Because there is nothing to ruin in the MCU , it was already mostly shitty, Carol Danvers no worse than most of the other heroes
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Post by thenewnexus on Mar 15, 2019 7:35:39 GMT
Yes she is. BTW Rey should have died instead of you
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Post by charzhino on Mar 15, 2019 9:09:59 GMT
Carols full power was restrained by a microchip but we had seen her have training done by Jude Law so she knew her capabilities. Rey on the other hand, a noob with zero training, was just developing powers outta nowhere as the script demanded. ''Oh I didnt know I could fly the Falcon/use the force/duel with a lightsaber,etc!''. Carol always knew her powersets so the revelation she could fly, fire strong photon blasts etc isnt as WTF as Reys and feels more earned.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 15, 2019 12:11:44 GMT
Did Captain America or Vision have to overcome any flaws? Steve at least had to overcome his physical frailty. I would've like to see a bit more of Carol in the early years facing adversity besides flipping a go cart or having a dick pilot laugh in her face. Steve even lost his best friend on a mission in TFA, Carol lost nothing. Captain Marvel is still a decent film, but you can't seriously compare Steve's onscreen journey to Carol's. Vision isn't a title character so it's a bad comparison. To answer the OP's question, no. Charzhino said it best so I'll refer you to his post for the difference between Rey and CM.
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Post by NormanClature on Mar 15, 2019 12:19:55 GMT
I should add that I post this against my own better judgement... I want to inspire some intelligent discourse and character analysis with this thread. So please don't troll here. Save that for Norman's threads. Jesus Christ! What is the matter with you? Is your butt that sore you can't stop mentioning my name in everything you write? Were you worried I wouldn't reply? If you genuinley don't want me to respond then stop mentioning my name. It's really simple. I'm not interested in your thread. Although I guess you knew I wouldn't be already, that's why you added the additional post. 
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Post by sostie on Mar 15, 2019 12:30:54 GMT
I should add that I post this against my own better judgement... I want to inspire some intelligent discourse and character analysis with this thread. So please don't troll here. Save that for Norman's threads. If you genuinley don't want me to respond then stop mentioning my name. It's really simple. I'm not interested in your thread. You are not tagged. You are not interested in the thread. How did you end up here...did you search yourself?
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NormanClature
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Post by NormanClature on Mar 15, 2019 12:33:26 GMT
If you genuinley don't want me to respond then stop mentioning my name. It's really simple. I'm not interested in your thread. You are not tagged. You are not interested in the thread. How did you end up here...did you search yourself? I said - "..you knew I wouldn't be." I am not telepathic.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Mar 15, 2019 12:38:35 GMT
Not really. You could argue that her controlling the Binary form at the end as mary sueish, but than Goku and Wonder Woman would have to fall in that category as well.
Rey was too loved and trusted by nearly everyone she came in contact with. Carol was only really loved by her friend and her friend daughter.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 17:27:37 GMT
Did Captain America or Vision have to overcome any flaws? Captain America is actually a very similar example. He's basically a flat arc character like Superman. I'm not quite sure what your point is though. If you are implying I'm basing this on gender then I can only say you're wrong. If I were comparing Carol or Rey to Steve Rogers I would tell you that his is just a better all around characterization, not that his character arcs are stronger. As for Vision, he is never the sole protagonist. So he is not relevant to this discussion. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 17:29:05 GMT
No. I already addressed this in a previous post. CM is not a mary sue like Rey. That's why you don't dislike Danvers. Please elaborate... |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 17:30:47 GMT
Carols full power was restrained by a microchip but we had seen her have training done by Jude Law so she knew her capabilities. Rey on the other hand, a noob with zero training, was just developing powers outta nowhere as the script demanded. ''Oh I didnt know I could fly the Falcon/use the force/duel with a lightsaber,etc!''. Carol always knew her powersets so the revelation she could fly, fire strong photon blasts etc isnt as WTF as Reys and feels more earned. Terrific points, Rey's perfection was also amplified by the fact that we had previously seen characters struggle to obtain powers she mastered in all of three seconds. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 17:32:03 GMT
Did Captain America or Vision have to overcome any flaws? Steve at least had to overcome his physical frailty. I would've like to see a bit more of Carol in the early years facing adversity besides flipping a go cart or having a dick pilot laugh in her face. Steve even lost his best friend on a mission in TFA, Carol lost nothing. Captain Marvel is still a decent film, but you can't seriously compare Steve's onscreen journey to Carol's. Vision isn't a title character so it's a bad comparison. To answer the OP's question, no. Charzhino said it best so I'll refer you to his post for the difference between Rey and CM. Very true. Carol really did not have to sacrifice anything to achieve her goal. That was a major problem with act three. |
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Post by Prime etc. on Mar 15, 2019 17:34:45 GMT
You can call her Rey
or you can call her Jey
or you can call her ReyJey
but you don't hasta call her Carol.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 17:34:51 GMT
I should add that I post this against my own better judgement... I want to inspire some intelligent discourse and character analysis with this thread. So please don't troll here. Save that for Norman's threads. Jesus Christ! What is the matter with you? Is your butt that sore you can't stop mentioning my name in everything you write? Were you worried I wouldn't reply? If you genuinley don't want me to respond then stop mentioning my name. It's really simple. I'm not interested in your thread. Although I guess you knew I wouldn't be already, that's why you added the additional post. ::roll:: ::laugh:: I see you are adding some new emojis to your arsenal. Good for you! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 17:37:18 GMT
Not really. You could argue that her controlling the Binary form at the end as mary sueish, but than Goku and Wonder Woman would have to fall in that category as well. Rey was too loved and trusted by nearly everyone she came in contact with. Carol was only really loved by her friend and her friend daughter. Terrific points. |
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