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Post by kuatorises on Mar 15, 2019 17:44:46 GMT
Did Captain America or Vision have to overcome any flaws? Aside from his initial physical limitations, Steve hasn't really gone through many real threats or problems since becoming Capt. America. He's never wrong, never punished when he is out of line, and by the looks of the new Avengers gear, allowed back on the team. Sometimes I want to punch him in his perfect teeth.It's fun to watch him fight, but I think it's fair that he could be referred to as a Mary Sue as well.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 15, 2019 17:48:01 GMT
No. I already addressed this in a previous post. CM is not a mary sue like Rey. That's why you don't dislike Danvers. Please elaborate... Both Carol and Rey are highly skilled in a number of things, but only Carol is seen actively training in h2h combat. She's the only one who has a glimpse into her past to explain why she can pilot aircrafts (being a pilot). Etc. Rey is skilled in a number of things and absolutely no explanation or background is given to explain her skill. Both Carol and Rey end up becoming quite powerful at the end of their movies, but again only Carol's power has an explanation. She was granted photon powers by the tesseract. Sure it might be a lazy way of acquiring powers but at least it's explained. On the other hand, there is zero explanation given as to why Rey is so powerful with the force. Carol makes mistakes and gets beaten down every now and then. She was never able to defeat Yon-Rogg in h2h. She makes a mistake and gets captured by the Kree. She makes a mistake in backing the wrong army in the war, etc. On the other hand, Rey almost never makes a mistake. Pretty sure she never lost in a direct confrontation against anyone either. Majority of characters like Rey for no reason at all. Finn likes her, Leia likes her, Kylo Ren likes her, etc. In comparison, most of the Kree are dismissive of Carol. Fury is distrustful of her at first. Yon-Rogg looks down on her. Etc. When they finally unlock their powers, Carol has an explanation: they removed her limited. When Rey unlocked her force powers... there's no explanation. Carol's back story gets closure. Her origin is explained. We know why she ended up being special. In comparison, we don't know who Rey is, we don't know why she's special, and all the mystery around her was thrown out the window. Carol also has more personality than Rey. Granted it's not a lot, but Carol still has bit of a feisty, almost impish streak whereas Rey is about as bland as a board.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 15, 2019 17:48:41 GMT
Did Captain America or Vision have to overcome any flaws? Aside from his initial physical limitations, Steve hasn't really gone through many real threats or problems since becoming Capt. America. He's never wrong, never punished when he is out of line, and by the looks of the new Avengers gear, allowed back on the team. Sometimes I want to punch him in his perfect teeth.It's fun to watch him fight, but I think it's fair that he could be referred to as a Mary Sue as well. Nope, that's not what a mary sue means.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 17:52:17 GMT
Both Carol and Rey are highly skilled in a number of things, but only Carol is seen actively training in h2h combat. She's the only one who has a glimpse into her past to explain why she can pilot aircrafts (being a pilot). Etc. Rey is skilled in a number of things and absolutely no explanation or background is given to explain her skill. Both Carol and Rey end up becoming quite powerful at the end of their movies, but again only Carol's power has an explanation. She was granted photon powers by the tesseract. Sure it might be a lazy way of acquiring powers but at least it's explained. On the other hand, there is zero explanation given as to why Rey is so powerful with the force. Carol makes mistakes and gets beaten down every now and then. She was never able to defeat Yon-Rogg in h2h. She makes a mistake and gets captured by the Kree. She makes a mistake in backing the wrong army in the war, etc. On the other hand, Rey almost never makes a mistake. Pretty sure she never lost in a direct confrontation against anyone either. Majority of characters like Rey for no reason at all. Finn likes her, Leia likes her, Kylo Ren likes her, etc. In comparison, most of the Kree are dismissive of Carol. Fury is distrustful of her at first. Yon-Rogg looks down on her. Etc. When they finally unlock their powers, Carol has an explanation: they removed her limited. When Rey unlocked her force powers... there's no explanation. Carol's back story gets closure. Her origin is explained. We know why she ended up being special. In comparison, we don't know who Rey is, we don't know why she's special, and all the mystery around her was thrown out the window. Carol also has more personality than Rey. Granted it's not a lot, but Carol still has bit of a feisty, almost impish streak whereas Rey is about as bland as a board. Great analysis. I think this pretty much sums it up. Thank you, sir! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 17:53:10 GMT
Did Captain America or Vision have to overcome any flaws? Aside from his initial physical limitations, Steve hasn't really gone through many real threats or problems since becoming Capt. America. He's never wrong, never punished when he is out of line, and by the looks of the new Avengers gear, allowed back on the team. Sometimes I want to punch him in his perfect teeth.It's fun to watch him fight, but I think it's fair that he could be referred to as a Mary Sue as well. Nah, he couldn't. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 17:55:45 GMT
You are not tagged. You are not interested in the thread. How did you end up here...did you search yourself? I said - "..you knew I wouldn't be." I am not telepathic. ::roll:: Seriously though, Norm... You are always welcome in my threads. |
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Post by kuatorises on Mar 15, 2019 17:56:34 GMT
Aside from his initial physical limitations, Steve hasn't really gone through many real threats or problems since becoming Capt. America. He's never wrong, never punished when he is out of line, and by the looks of the new Avengers gear, allowed back on the team. Sometimes I want to punch him in his perfect teeth.It's fun to watch him fight, but I think it's fair that he could be referred to as a Mary Sue as well. Nope, that's not what a mary sue means. That's absolutely what it is. Steve is perfect. He is superior physically, things come easy to him, viewed as admirable, never really screws up (in the eyes of writers and many fans) – and if he does, is never held accountable. Thor was arrested almost immediately after showing up on our planet and Stark had to go before Congress when it was revealed he was Ironman.Both have gone through and lost a lot as well.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 15, 2019 17:58:18 GMT
Nope, that's not what a mary sue means. That's absolutely what it is. Steve is perfect. He is superior physically, things come easy to him, viewed as admirable, never really screws up (in the eyes of writers and many fans) – and if he does, is never held accountable. Thor was arrested almost immediately after showing up on our planet and Stark had to go before Congress when it was revealed he was Ironman.Both have gone through and lost a lot as well. Again, that's not what a Mary Sue is. Being perfect does not make you a Mary Sue. It's simply a very common by-product of a Mary Sue but is not its defining factor. And I disagree with him never facing consequences. He went underground for a reason you know. |
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Post by kuatorises on Mar 15, 2019 18:07:12 GMT
That's absolutely what it is. Steve is perfect. He is superior physically, things come easy to him, viewed as admirable, never really screws up (in the eyes of writers and many fans) – and if he does, is never held accountable. Thor was arrested almost immediately after showing up on our planet and Stark had to go before Congress when it was revealed he was Ironman.Both have gone through and lost a lot as well. Being perfect does not make you a Mary Sue. It's simply a very common by-product of a Mary Sue but is not its defining factor. And I disagree with him never facing consequences. He went underground for a reason you know.
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Post by Nalkarj on Mar 15, 2019 18:08:37 GMT
I said - "..you knew I wouldn't be." I am not telepathic.  Seriously though, Norm... You are always welcome in my threads. Ackbar, you’re a saint! A SAINT, I tell you!
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 15, 2019 18:33:25 GMT
Again, that's not what a Mary Sue is. Being perfect does not make you a Mary Sue. It's simply a very common by-product of a Mary Sue but is not its defining factor. And I disagree with him never facing consequences. He went underground for a reason you know.
And again, that's not a mary sue. Wikipedia and urbandictionary are crowdsourced, meaning random people can input definitions in there. Doesn't mean they're correct. Here's a better qualification for what a mary sue is: springhole.net/writing/marysue.htmFor example: Bella Swan is not perfect. She's described as average looking, even below average and anti-social. She deals with depression, anxiety and anger issues throughout her series. Still doesn't stop her from being a Mary Sue. The defining characteristic of a mary sue/gary stu is the ability of the character to break in-universe rules and laws to fulfill their needs. Whereas most characters service the story, the story services the mary sue. In the case of Rey, she's a mary sue because she breaks all the laws/rules previously laid down regarding the force without explanation. She breaks all the rules/laws we knew about lightsaber combat, again without explanation. The story/universe bent itself backwards just to make her what she needed to be, and all without a proper explanation. Captain America doesn't do that. Yes he is a great physical specimen... but that's explained. Yes, he isn't imprisoned when he went after Bucky... but again that's explained. Yes, he's seen as morally upright... but again that's explained. And in none of these instances does he break in-universe laws. The only mary-sueish characteristic Cap has is that he becomes a ridiculously good fighter (and shield thrower) without any apparent training. But yeah, that alone is not going to make him a mary sue. Besides, Cap is far from perfect. Heck, the guy is still a freaking virgin.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 15, 2019 18:37:02 GMT
Rey honestly has more personality.
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Post by kuatorises on Mar 15, 2019 18:41:08 GMT
And again, that's not a mary sue. Wikipedia and urbandictionary are crowdsourced, meaning random people can input definitions in there. Doesn't mean they're correct. Here's a better qualification for what a mary sue is: springhole.net/writing/marysue.htmFor example: Bella Swan is not perfect. She's described as average looking, even below average and anti-social. She deals with depression, anxiety and anger issues throughout her series. Still doesn't stop her from being a Mary Sue. The defining characteristic of a mary sue/gary stu is the ability of the character to break in-universe rules and laws to fulfill their needs. Whereas most characters service the story, the story services the mary sue. In the case of Rey, she's a mary sue because she breaks all the laws/rules previously laid down regarding the force without explanation. She breaks all the rules/laws we knew about lightsaber combat, again without explanation. The story/universe bent itself backwards just to make her what she needed to be, and all without a proper explanation. Captain America doesn't do that. Yes he is a great physical specimen... but that's explained. Yes, he isn't imprisoned when he went after Bucky... but again that's explained. Yes, he's seen as morally upright... but again that's explained. And in none of these instances does he break in-universe laws. The only mary-sueish characteristic Cap has is that he becomes a ridiculously good fighter (and shield thrower) without any apparent training. But yeah, that alone is not going to make him a mary sue. Oh, the springhole.net... I should have consulted that old reliable site first.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 15, 2019 18:55:53 GMT
And again, that's not a mary sue. Wikipedia and urbandictionary are crowdsourced, meaning random people can input definitions in there. Doesn't mean they're correct. Here's a better qualification for what a mary sue is: springhole.net/writing/marysue.htmFor example: Bella Swan is not perfect. She's described as average looking, even below average and anti-social. She deals with depression, anxiety and anger issues throughout her series. Still doesn't stop her from being a Mary Sue. The defining characteristic of a mary sue/gary stu is the ability of the character to break in-universe rules and laws to fulfill their needs. Whereas most characters service the story, the story services the mary sue. In the case of Rey, she's a mary sue because she breaks all the laws/rules previously laid down regarding the force without explanation. She breaks all the rules/laws we knew about lightsaber combat, again without explanation. The story/universe bent itself backwards just to make her what she needed to be, and all without a proper explanation. Captain America doesn't do that. Yes he is a great physical specimen... but that's explained. Yes, he isn't imprisoned when he went after Bucky... but again that's explained. Yes, he's seen as morally upright... but again that's explained. And in none of these instances does he break in-universe laws. The only mary-sueish characteristic Cap has is that he becomes a ridiculously good fighter (and shield thrower) without any apparent training. But yeah, that alone is not going to make him a mary sue. Oh, the springhole.net... I should have consulted that old reliable site first.
Doesn't change the fact that simply being "perfect" doesn't make a character a mary sue. I gave you the springhole article not because that website is more legit but because their description of a mary sue is far more correct. Anyway, bottom line, Captain America is not a mary sue. Christopher Reeve's Superman was. Some of Dwayne Johnson's characters are. If you want a simpler way to check for mary sueness, it's when a character is seemingly perfect WITHOUT an explanation. Majority of things that Steve Rogers can do comes with a decent explanation. So he's not a mary sue.
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Post by politicidal on Mar 15, 2019 19:33:41 GMT
Perhaps you just prefer blondes.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 19:34:36 GMT
And again, that's not a mary sue. Wikipedia and urbandictionary are crowdsourced, meaning random people can input definitions in there. Doesn't mean they're correct. Here's a better qualification for what a mary sue is: springhole.net/writing/marysue.htmFor example: Bella Swan is not perfect. She's described as average looking, even below average and anti-social. She deals with depression, anxiety and anger issues throughout her series. Still doesn't stop her from being a Mary Sue. The defining characteristic of a mary sue/gary stu is the ability of the character to break in-universe rules and laws to fulfill their needs. Whereas most characters service the story, the story services the mary sue. In the case of Rey, she's a mary sue because she breaks all the laws/rules previously laid down regarding the force without explanation. She breaks all the rules/laws we knew about lightsaber combat, again without explanation. The story/universe bent itself backwards just to make her what she needed to be, and all without a proper explanation. Captain America doesn't do that. Yes he is a great physical specimen... but that's explained. Yes, he isn't imprisoned when he went after Bucky... but again that's explained. Yes, he's seen as morally upright... but again that's explained. And in none of these instances does he break in-universe laws. The only mary-sueish characteristic Cap has is that he becomes a ridiculously good fighter (and shield thrower) without any apparent training. But yeah, that alone is not going to make him a mary sue. Oh, the springhole.net... I should have consulted that old reliable site first.
So.. Basically he has won the argument, you no longer have a leg to stand on and are resorting to posting GIFs.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 19:35:09 GMT
Perhaps you just prefer blondes. You might be on to something there!
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Post by Nalkarj on Mar 15, 2019 19:40:37 GMT
Perhaps you just prefer blondes. Well, he is a gentlesquid.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Mar 15, 2019 21:35:34 GMT
Politicidal is on to something. Carol is Blonde Rey is brunette and British. Think about it  |
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Mar 17, 2019 0:18:15 GMT
Actually it might be the cat.
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