shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on May 1, 2019 16:48:18 GMT
Well, that's not really the back story. That Night King is not the same person. The Night King is a legend in the book and was not an Other leader who would have existed centuries before. Further they gave a backstory to NK and a purpose. They removed his ice queen and made him the first White Walker instead. It's the only difference of the information given in the show that contradicts. I was forthcoming about this earlier for those reading who may be show-only fans of the series and read my posting. The purpose seems to be the same in both show and books. We know in the books the White Walkers are a menacing species building an undead force beyond the Wall. We also know there's lots of talk of the Wall eventually coming down via a magical horn or magical force. It's presented in the show/books that only magic can undo magic (or physically scaling the Wall) could be the only way to get past the wall. The Children of Forest (who were very magical beings in their own right) are said to have contributed in helping to build the Wall. In the show, Osha talks about how the White Walkers "Were sleeping" and "They're not sleeping anymore!" she exclaims. It's believed in the books that the Others were awoken when the Wildlings went looking in the frozen mountains for this said horn. There's also an exchange in the show said between Ygritte and Qhorin Halfhand where he asks her, ""Why come to the mountains? What's in the Frostfangs your "king" could want?!" She doesn't answer with a knowing look. It implies they were looking for the horn. Everything connects well between the show and books for the White Walker storyline besides the creation aspect of the Night King. Unfortunately, George R.R. Martin just never finished the remainder of the story in the books to show how close the show is. Unfortunately, the show just didn't have the time to present more on the Night King either. As-is, I think they're crunching the time to wrap up the fight for the Iron Throne, interrelations between the 7 Kingdoms, and Cersei's gameplay with only 3 episodes left. I hope they can do it! Thanks for responding to me and questioning what I wrote (challenging others often leads to great conversation after all). I've always enjoyed talking to you.
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shinnickneth
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@shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on May 1, 2019 16:59:15 GMT
How did you watch it? I heard that HBO said there was an issue with original stream of the episode and it wasn't meant to be "that dark". I streamed it. Through HBO Now or HBO Go? People were/are online complaining about the darkness, which prompted HBO looking into and discovering the issue to be true. They've fixed the issue with future streams of the episode. Now it appears to be about as dark in video quality as the Battle of Blackwater from Season 2. I had the same the same issue as you when I watched the premier on the West Coast of the U.S. It was pretty frustrating to make sense of what was going on, but in a way, I also liked it as I felt the sense of confusion/despair the characters were going through. Still...it was great to go back and re-watch it last night after the fix by HBO. It was like watching it for the first time for me - it made all the difference! Maybe you should too. If you're still having issues with it being mostly overly dark beyond that, check your television/monitor video settings.
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on May 1, 2019 17:07:12 GMT
They were supposed to stay close to the tree. There was no reason imo to treat the zombies as a regular army. They were vastly outnumbered with no shot of winning. That's why it's so funny when people whine that the Dothraki should have flanked them. No plan was going to work at all. Dany was literally burning through thousands of them each go around and there were still tons of them. Plus they had to be together to tackle a zombie dragon and especially since Jon wasn;t experienced. If anything, I thought it was goofy to have Jon even riding a dragon as dragons can fight on their own. That makes no sense to me. If they took some out and there were thousands more, than they should have continued to smoke them until the Night King showed up. Them flying all over Westeros the whole time the troops are trying to protect Winterfell was stupid. I get they were going for the throat by focusing on the Night King. But the Night King wasn't doing anything until he showed up to fight. Meanwhile the the troops protecting Winterfell were dying and Winterfell was falling. "For example, the whole time between when the trenches were lighted, and the dead start climbing the walls, we see one scene of one dragon firing on the dead fighters. Then we see Jon on his dragon just perched on the castle walls just doing nothing. And Dany and her dragon are nowhere in sight. The dead stood there for a long time until they decided to form a body bridge over the fire. The dragons should have been touching them the whole time."Maybe it was just bad editing. But seemed like instead of assisting the troops defending Winterfeld during the attack, they were either missing, or doing nothing for long periods of time. I don't disagree that there were times I wondered what the hell the dragons were doing, but in a general sense they did show Dany and Jon performing two important missions, close air support (smoking wights) and interception, (of Viserion and the Night King) and the latter being just as important, in fact critical to their success. For one thing they had to disrupt Viserion from doing to the walls of Winterfell what he did to The Wall or what other dragons did to Harrenhal, and for another they had reason to believe from Beric ("Beyond the Wall") that if they took out the Night King it was game over.
It could be that dragons can't flame continuously and need to rest occasionally and when doing so soaring above the clouds, perhaps hoping to swoop down and engage with talons and fangs isn't a bad idea; or just surveying the battlefield for their next target may be their wisest course. They also wouldn't want both dragons to be engaged elsewhere (and perhaps low on flame) if Viserion suddenly popped into view and went straight for the walls--or the Godswood.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 1, 2019 17:17:33 GMT
Well, that's not really the back story. That Night King is not the same person. The Night King is a legend in the book and was not an Other leader who would have existed centuries before. Further they gave a backstory to NK and a purpose. They removed his ice queen and made him the first White Walker instead. It's the only difference of the information given in the show that contradicts. I was forthcoming about this earlier for those reading who may be show-only fans of the series and read my posting. The purpose seems to be the same in both show and books. We know in the books the White Walkers are a menacing species building an undead force beyond the Wall. We also know there's lots of talk of the Wall eventually coming down via a magical horn or magical force. It's presented in the show/books that only magic can undo magic (or physically scaling the Wall) could be the only way to get past the wall. The Children of Forest (who were very magical beings in their own right) are said to have contributed in helping to build the Wall. In the show, Osha talks about how the White Walkers "Were sleeping" and "They're not sleeping anymore!" she exclaims. It's believed in the books that the Others were awoken when the Wildlings went looking in the frozen mountains for this said horn. There's also an exchange in the show said between Ygritte and Qhorin Halfhand where he asks her, ""Why come to the mountains? What's in the Frostfangs your "king" could want?!" She doesn't answer with a knowing look. It implies they were looking for the horn. Everything connects well between the show and books for the White Walker storyline besides the creation aspect of the Night King. Unfortunately, George R.R. Martin just never finished the remainder of the story in the books to show how close the show is. Unfortunately, the show just didn't have the time to present more on the Night King either. As-is, I think they're crunching the time to wrap up the fight for the Iron Throne, interrelations between the 7 Kingdoms, and Cersei's gameplay with only 3 episodes left. I hope they can do it! Thanks for responding to me and questioning what I wrote (challenging others often leads to great conversation after all). I've always enjoyed talking to you. Im just focusing on the timeline. The Night King of the books may have become a white walker but white walkers existed prior to him. The wall was not built until after the long night and the book night king was 13 commander. The Others may not have ever had a NK but they did exist before the NK in the books. His hooking up with one actually verified it.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 1, 2019 17:54:28 GMT
They were supposed to stay close to the tree. There was no reason imo to treat the zombies as a regular army. They were vastly outnumbered with no shot of winning. That's why it's so funny when people whine that the Dothraki should have flanked them. No plan was going to work at all. Dany was literally burning through thousands of them each go around and there were still tons of them. Plus they had to be together to tackle a zombie dragon and especially since Jon wasn;t experienced. If anything, I thought it was goofy to have Jon even riding a dragon as dragons can fight on their own. That makes no sense to me. If they took some out and there were thousands more, than they should have continued to smoke them until the Night King showed up. Them flying all over Westeros the whole time the troops are trying to protect Winterfell, was stupid. I get they were going for the throat by focusing on the Night King. But the Night King wasn't doing anything until he showed up to fight. Meanwhile the the troops protecting Winterfell were dying and Winterfell was falling. "For example, the whole time between when the trenches were lighted, and the dead start climbing the walls, we see one scene of one dragon firing on the dead fighters. Then we see Jon on his dragon just perched on the castle walls just doing nothing. And Dany and her dragon are nowhere in sight. The dead stood there for a long time until they decided to form a body bridge over the fire. The dragons should have been touching them the whole time."Maybe it was just bad editing. But seemed like instead of assisting the troops defending Winterfeld during the attack, they were either missing, or doing nothing for long periods of time. I think the editing was not good because they felt the need to cut down the time. It should have been 2 hours. I think they did a great job of showing Dany being a boss. They could not accurately convey how blind the dragons were flying and also the notions of looking for the NK. Now something I think is the fault of the viewer as they have shown it time and again is what the NK does. He is not a man of action but a conductor. So his big moment was raising the dead not some long drawn out battle with someone for Brans soul. However when he raised the fallen dead, that was when someone else should have been overrun and a loss felt whether it be Brienne or Sam or Grey Worm. Instead the focused on Jon getting dragon blocked when we knew nothing was going to happen to him. Technically Jorah counts but that is after NK is defeated.
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Post by hehatesshe on May 1, 2019 17:55:15 GMT
Remember that the dragons were never the plan. Dany changed it after the fast destruction of the Dothraki. Once the battle left the open field, the plan to find the Night King was back on. That's a stupid plan. Sounds like something Jon Snow would have thought up. Better to smoke the Army of the Dead until the Night King shows up. Well, everyone thought it up. Tyrion, Sansa and Jorah were all in the room.
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Post by Aj_June on May 1, 2019 18:22:34 GMT
That makes no sense to me. If they took some out and there were thousands more, than they should have continued to smoke them until the Night King showed up. Them flying all over Westeros the whole time the troops are trying to protect Winterfell was stupid. I get they were going for the throat by focusing on the Night King. But the Night King wasn't doing anything until he showed up to fight. Meanwhile the the troops protecting Winterfell were dying and Winterfell was falling. "For example, the whole time between when the trenches were lighted, and the dead start climbing the walls, we see one scene of one dragon firing on the dead fighters. Then we see Jon on his dragon just perched on the castle walls just doing nothing. And Dany and her dragon are nowhere in sight. The dead stood there for a long time until they decided to form a body bridge over the fire. The dragons should have been touching them the whole time."Maybe it was just bad editing. But seemed like instead of assisting the troops defending Winterfeld during the attack, they were either missing, or doing nothing for long periods of time. I don't disagree that there were times I wondered what the hell the dragons were doing, but in a general sense they did show Dany and Jon performing two important missions, close air support (smoking wights) and interception, (of Viserion and the Night King) and the latter being just as important, in fact critical to their success. For one thing they had to disrupt Viserion from doing to the walls of Winterfell what he did to The Wall or what other dragons did to Harrenhal, and for another they had reason to believe from Beric ("Beyond the Wall") that if they took out the Night King it was game over.
This is an important point that I or most of the folks didn't consider. Now that you said it I can think of a scenario in which Night King could have inflicted all the damage from air itself. So it was a key moment when he was brought down from his blue dragon.
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Post by movieliker on May 1, 2019 20:15:50 GMT
How did you watch it? I heard that HBO said there was an issue with original stream of the episode and it wasn't meant to be "that dark". I streamed it. I streamed it also. But many people with good TVs who watched it on HBO complained also, about it being too dark.
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Post by movieliker on May 2, 2019 3:12:06 GMT
That makes no sense to me. If they took some out and there were thousands more, than they should have continued to smoke them until the Night King showed up. Them flying all over Westeros the whole time the troops are trying to protect Winterfell was stupid. I get they were going for the throat by focusing on the Night King. But the Night King wasn't doing anything until he showed up to fight. Meanwhile the the troops protecting Winterfell were dying and Winterfell was falling. "For example, the whole time between when the trenches were lighted, and the dead start climbing the walls, we see one scene of one dragon firing on the dead fighters. Then we see Jon on his dragon just perched on the castle walls just doing nothing. And Dany and her dragon are nowhere in sight. The dead stood there for a long time until they decided to form a body bridge over the fire. The dragons should have been touching them the whole time."Maybe it was just bad editing. But seemed like instead of assisting the troops defending Winterfeld during the attack, they were either missing, or doing nothing for long periods of time. I don't disagree that there were times I wondered what the hell the dragons were doing, but in a general sense they did show Dany and Jon performing two important missions, close air support (smoking wights) and interception, (of Viserion and the Night King) and the latter being just as important, in fact critical to their success. For one thing they had to disrupt Viserion from doing to the walls of Winterfell what he did to The Wall or what other dragons did to Harrenhal, and for another they had reason to believe from Beric ("Beyond the Wall") that if they took out the Night King it was game over.
It could be that dragons can't flame continuously and need to rest occasionally and when doing so soaring above the clouds, perhaps hoping to swoop down and engage with talons and fangs isn't a bad idea; or just surveying the battlefield for their next target may be their wisest course. They also wouldn't want both dragons to be engaged elsewhere (and perhaps low on flame) if Viserion suddenly popped into view and went straight for the walls--or the Godswood.
Thank you for agreeing it was an understandable reaction to wonder what were the dragons doing for much of the time they seemed to be doing nothing. But the rest of your reply seems to fall into the category of "Well maybe this is why". First of all, never --- throughout this whole program, any of its episodes or seasons --- do I ever remember anybody saying dragons had poor stamina. Secondly, of course there are limits to any living creature's ability to fight for long periods of time. Nobody is suggesting Dany and Jon fly their dragons into the ground. But there is a middle ground between overuse and underuse. Reasonability would suggest something like periodic swoops over the battle ground torching the Army of the Dead. And periodic perches in order for the dragons to rest. And for Dany and Jon to wait for the arrival of the Night King. That way the dragons wouldn't get tired. The troops defending Winterfeld would get assistance. And Dany and Jon would be ready in case the Night King reveals himself.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 2, 2019 3:36:21 GMT
I don't disagree that there were times I wondered what the hell the dragons were doing, but in a general sense they did show Dany and Jon performing two important missions, close air support (smoking wights) and interception, (of Viserion and the Night King) and the latter being just as important, in fact critical to their success. For one thing they had to disrupt Viserion from doing to the walls of Winterfell what he did to The Wall or what other dragons did to Harrenhal, and for another they had reason to believe from Beric ("Beyond the Wall") that if they took out the Night King it was game over.
It could be that dragons can't flame continuously and need to rest occasionally and when doing so soaring above the clouds, perhaps hoping to swoop down and engage with talons and fangs isn't a bad idea; or just surveying the battlefield for their next target may be their wisest course. They also wouldn't want both dragons to be engaged elsewhere (and perhaps low on flame) if Viserion suddenly popped into view and went straight for the walls--or the Godswood.
Reasonability would suggest something like periodic swoops over the battle ground torching the Army of the Dead. And periodic perches in order for the dragons to rest. And for Dany and Jon to wait for the arrival of the Night King. That way the dragons wouldn't get tired. The troops defending Winterfeld would get assistance. And Dany and Jon would be ready in case the Night King reveals himself. That was what was happening although I don;t think the dragons needed rest between flights. They need rest after injury. Dany was the aggressor because she was breaking from the plan but they repeatedly showed her throughout the battle killing zombies. Jon was trying to stick to the plan while also needing to assist Dany while looking/waiting for the NK.
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Post by movieliker on May 2, 2019 3:49:20 GMT
Reasonability would suggest something like periodic swoops over the battle ground torching the Army of the Dead. And periodic perches in order for the dragons to rest. And for Dany and Jon to wait for the arrival of the Night King. That way the dragons wouldn't get tired. The troops defending Winterfeld would get assistance. And Dany and Jon would be ready in case the Night King reveals himself. That was what was happening although I don;t think the dragons needed rest between flights. They need rest after injury. Dany was the aggressor because she was breaking from the plan but they repeatedly showed her throughout the battle killing zombies. Jon was trying to stick to the plan while also needing to assist Dany while looking/waiting for the NK. That was not the way it was portrayed. I am not talking about what the books say. Or what we were supposed to surmise. I am talking about the way it was presented in Sunday's episode. There were long periods of time where Dany, Jon and the dragons were not on screen. Or on screen doing nothing. When they were not engaging the Night King or helping defend Winterfell.
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on May 2, 2019 8:59:39 GMT
I don't disagree that there were times I wondered what the hell the dragons were doing, but in a general sense they did show Dany and Jon performing two important missions, close air support (smoking wights) and interception, (of Viserion and the Night King) and the latter being just as important, in fact critical to their success. For one thing they had to disrupt Viserion from doing to the walls of Winterfell what he did to The Wall or what other dragons did to Harrenhal, and for another they had reason to believe from Beric ("Beyond the Wall") that if they took out the Night King it was game over.
It could be that dragons can't flame continuously and need to rest occasionally and when doing so soaring above the clouds, perhaps hoping to swoop down and engage with talons and fangs isn't a bad idea; or just surveying the battlefield for their next target may be their wisest course. They also wouldn't want both dragons to be engaged elsewhere (and perhaps low on flame) if Viserion suddenly popped into view and went straight for the walls--or the Godswood.
Thank you for agreeing it was an understandable reaction to wonder what were the dragons doing for much of the time they seemed to be doing nothing. But the rest of your reply seems to fall into the category of "Well maybe this is why". First of all, never --- throughout this whole program, any of its episodes or seasons --- do I ever remember anybody saying dragons had poor stamina. Secondly, of course there are limits to any living creature's ability to fight for long periods of time. Nobody is suggesting Dany and Jon fly their dragons into the ground. But there is a middle ground between overuse and underuse. Reasonability would suggest something like periodic swoops over the battle ground torching the Army of the Dead. And periodic perches in order for the dragons to rest. And for Dany and Jon to wait for the arrival of the Night King. That way the dragons wouldn't get tired. The troops defending Winterfeld would get assistance. And Dany and Jon would be ready in case the Night King reveals himself. I got the same impression the first time through, but noticed in subsequent viewings--including just now--they were doing more than I noticed at first. It looks like they were smoking wights after they charged and then the Night King summoned a windy cold front which they climbed to avoid and Jon then went to ground and Dany got lost. After Melisandre lit the trench Dany got her bearings and if you look closely you can see her in the background of that shot smoking wights. You can see that again when Bran sends the ravens.
It appears Jon's primary mission was intercepting the Night King as he takes off as soon as he's sighted and later intercepts when Viserion flames the wall and tower of Winterfell. He manages to disrupt him and eventually dismount the Night King but Rheagal gets wounded and Jon kisses the icy turf himself. Dany presumably is still smoking wights as that's what she does shortly thereafter to come to Jon's aid.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 2, 2019 10:47:13 GMT
That was what was happening although I don;t think the dragons needed rest between flights. They need rest after injury. Dany was the aggressor because she was breaking from the plan but they repeatedly showed her throughout the battle killing zombies. Jon was trying to stick to the plan while also needing to assist Dany while looking/waiting for the NK. That was not the way it was portrayed. I am not talking about what the books say. Or what we were supposed to surmise. I am talking about the way it was presented in Sunday's episode. There were long periods of time where Dany, Jon and the dragons were not on screen. Or on screen doing nothing. When they were not engaging the Night King or helping defend Winterfell. To me it was portrayed that way and the dragons were displayed more than they ever have been. I can't even remember a time Dany's dragon rested.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 2, 2019 10:49:37 GMT
To me it was portrayed that way and the dragons were displayed more than they ever have been. I can't even remember a time Dany's dragon rested. Poor sweethearts… No, I'm not sorry for them Sansa will sit on a throne made of dragon scales.
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Troyal1
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Post by Troyal1 on May 5, 2019 5:02:45 GMT
He isn't just a random guy according to what is established in the books. Since they didn't give him any backstory in the show, I'll tell you what they give in the books... He's revealed to be a Stark and the 13th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. He fell in love with a pale woman with blue eyes Beyond The Wall, wed her, bed her, crowned himself king, and he spent years committing all kinds of atrocities with his queen. Eventually, the North rallied against him and put him an end to his original reign. His crimes were so severe that the Maesters of the Citadel wiped all memory of the NK from the history books, which explains why no one knows much about him in the present times (outside of Bran). The additional information given in the books is that when he gave his ice queen his seed, she took his human essence and he was turned into a White Walker (this part was obviously changed to have the Children of the Forest do it instead in the show). It's a shame they didn't present any of this in the show. The opportune moment would have been when Bran said, "I'm leaving now" or whatever it is he said before Warging into the birds and have a quick flashback sequence. I believe the symbols the Night King made in season 1 and this season were basically like a House sigil for the White Walkers - this part is just my own theory though. It's not based on anything presented in the show or books. Nobody did anything?! A lot happened. There was lots of heroism. The Hound composing himself to help Arya was good. I really don't care for Melisandre. In fact, I loath her. I have to admit she helped a lot with her firepower. Jorah going out protecting Dany was tough to watch. I liked how Theon did what he did for Bran. It was wonderful for Bran to have a "personal moment" with someone because Robot Bran was getting a bit tiresome. Based on that moment, it makes me wonder if he's still the 3 Eyed Raven or if he's kind of shed that persona now that the Night King has been defeated and returned to being Brandon Stark? I guess we'll find out. I wonder how Yara will factor into the story now that her brother is gone? It was weird that Meera wasn't there. I think that was a misstep on the part of D&D. She should have fought. I thought the Night King toying with Bran was right on spot. He had previously toyed with Jon at Hardhome. When Dany tried to burn him, he just smirked at her, and went for his spear...his arrogance is clearly his weakness. It reminds me of how Voldemort toys with Harry Potter on multiple occasions and ends up losing due to it. Arya only was able to do it because Melisandre told her she was going to kill the Night King with her "blue eyes" line. No one else could do it because of that. She was meant to do it. It’s already written, the ink is dry! I respectfully have to disagree with a lot of that. Jon has been built up in the show as having a great importance towards the WW and the NK. He could have sat out this battle and nothing would have changed. The dragon would have attacked by itself. So Jon again was a utter failure this entire episode and did nothing. Bran didnt do anything. The whole battle was just awful man. Like I literally didn’t enjoy any of it. It was dark, extremely shaky and was absolutely filled with ridiculous deus ex machina that I just can’t stand. Where characters are getting saved constantly at the last moment. And the ridiculous plot armor where people are pinned against the wall yet they are in no danger. So any weight to the battle was completely destroyed. Only characters who died were characters who’s arcs were finished... what happened to the GOT that had any stakes? I mean weddings kill more main characters than the biggest battle ever. Not to mention the ludicrous battle plan. I just didn’t enjoy any part of the battle and the extreme inconsistency. In regards to Mel and Arya I find that to be bull. In the BTS D&D say thy knew was gonna do it for the past 3 years. And they decided to do it because it would be surprising. Well the dialogue about closing eyes happened in S3 which was a lot longer ago than three years. Mel was talking about how Arya will kill many people because she was set to become a assassin. She wasn’t talking about the NK back then and I find repurposed dialogue to be one of the worst and most lazy forms of storytelling imaginable. She wasn’t always gonna kill the NK or they would have specified that. Bran and Jon got robbed because they had something to actually do with the NK. Jamie, brienne and many other characters had no standout moments. Mel’s scene was pretty lame and nonchalant. Walking to light a fire when there are thousands of wights feet away? The battle stopping so Arya can do a Metal Gear Solid mission. Then being able to sneak up on the NK so easily when he is heavily guarded. Did bran send Theon to his death when he knew Arya was coming in mere seconds? The WW and NK didn’t even fight. Im sorry to say this is probably the worst episode of the show for me. I didn’t really like anything. And most of what I’ve listed is simply scratching the surface
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 5, 2019 5:19:01 GMT
The whole battle was just awful man. … It was dark, extremely shaky and was absolutely filled with ridiculous deus ex machina that I just can’t stand. Where characters are getting saved constantly at the last moment. And the ridiculous plot armor where people are pinned against the wall yet they are in no danger. So any weight to the battle was completely destroyed. Only characters who died were characters who’s arcs were finished... what happened to the GOT that had any stakes? In regards to Mel and Arya I find that to be bull. In the BTS D&D say thy knew was gonna do it for the past 3 years. And they decided to do it because it would be surprising. Well the dialogue about closing eyes happened in S3 which was a lot longer ago than three years. Mel was talking about how Arya will kill many people because she was set to become a assassin. She wasn’t talking about the NK back then and I find repurposed dialogue to be one of the worst and most lazy forms of storytelling imaginable. She wasn’t always gonna kill the NK or they would have specified that. … Im sorry to say this is probably the worst episode of the show for me. I didn’t really like anything So it was the same stupidity as Battle Of The Bastards, where the strategy is inept and impossible piles of bodies are made to impress fools but the main characters all come out alive. Then you get the right characters to meet in the middle of the chaos for some "meaningful" interaction and the writers keep quoting earlier seasons to make the heart of little feeling fools beat harder. Arya tells Sansa to "stick' em with the pointy end", Melisandre asks "what do we say to the god of death" and so on… Then they build in some fake foreshadowing to make them believe it was all set ahead of time, which in itself utterly ruins the value of the story, since there are no stakes in destiny. Game Of Thrones has become a pure moron pleasing endeavour and it started three years ago.
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shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on May 5, 2019 13:45:16 GMT
I respectfully have to disagree with a lot of that. Jon has been built up in the show as having a great importance towards the WW and the NK. He could have sat out this battle and nothing would have changed. The dragon would have attacked by itself. So Jon again was a utter failure this entire episode and did nothing. Bran didnt do anything. The whole battle was just awful man. Like I literally didn’t enjoy any of it. It was dark, extremely shaky and was absolutely filled with ridiculous deus ex machina that I just can’t stand. Where characters are getting saved constantly at the last moment. And the ridiculous plot armor where people are pinned against the wall yet they are in no danger. So any weight to the battle was completely destroyed. Only characters who died were characters who’s arcs were finished... what happened to the GOT that had any stakes? I mean weddings kill more main characters than the biggest battle ever. Not to mention the ludicrous battle plan. I just didn’t enjoy any part of the battle and the extreme inconsistency. In regards to Mel and Arya I find that to be bull. In the BTS D&D say thy knew was gonna do it for the past 3 years. And they decided to do it because it would be surprising. Well the dialogue about closing eyes happened in S3 which was a lot longer ago than three years. Mel was talking about how Arya will kill many people because she was set to become a assassin. She wasn’t talking about the NK back then and I find repurposed dialogue to be one of the worst and most lazy forms of storytelling imaginable. She wasn’t always gonna kill the NK or they would have specified that. Bran and Jon got robbed because they had something to actually do with the NK. Jamie, brienne and many other characters had no standout moments. Mel’s scene was pretty lame and nonchalant. Walking to light a fire when there are thousands of wights feet away? The battle stopping so Arya can do a Metal Gear Solid mission. Then being able to sneak up on the NK so easily when he is heavily guarded. Did bran send Theon to his death when he knew Arya was coming in mere seconds? The WW and NK didn’t even fight. Im sorry to say this is probably the worst episode of the show for me. I didn’t really like anything. And most of what I’ve listed is simply scratching the surface That's too bad you hated it. Hopefully you'll like tonight's episode more.
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Post by Morgana on May 5, 2019 14:22:53 GMT
Through HBO Now or HBO Go? People were/are online complaining about the darkness, which prompted HBO looking into and discovering the issue to be true. They've fixed the issue with future streams of the episode. Now it appears to be about as dark in video quality as the Battle of Blackwater from Season 2. I had the same the same issue as you when I watched the premier on the West Coast of the U.S. It was pretty frustrating to make sense of what was going on, but in a way, I also liked it as I felt the sense of confusion/despair the characters were going through. Still...it was great to go back and re-watch it last night after the fix by HBO. It was like watching it for the first time for me - it made all the difference! Maybe you should too. If you're still having issues with it being mostly overly dark beyond that, check your television/monitor video settings. I took your advice and watched it again and it was better than before. Thanks. I would just like to talk about the battle plan though. What was with sending off the Dothraki horde into the darkness? That made no sense. The dragons were under used - they should have been sent in first, to do all the damage they could, as well as letting off the flaming rocks, or whatever they were. That would have made a lot more sense, but I feel the directors went for the Dothraki for the effect it would have on us, the viewers, to see the lights go out. In my opinion that's not a proper reason for a lack of common sense. Oh, and what was with Bran? I was kind of hoping he might conjure up a horde of forest folk to help in the battle but it seems that all he did was fly around as ravens.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 5, 2019 14:50:24 GMT
Thanks. I took your advice and watched it again and it was better than before. Thanks. I would just like to talk about the battle plan though. What was with sending off the Dothraki horde into the darkness? That made no sense. The dragons were under used - they should have been sent in first, to do all the damage they could, as well as letting off the flaming rocks, or whatever they were. That would have made a lot more sense, but I feel the directors went for the Dothraki for the effect it would have on us, the viewers, to see the lights go out. In my opinion that's not a proper reason for a lack of common sense. The battle made spectacular and dramatic sense. No more. I read there is also a long scene of Arya avoiding wights in the library, No one knows how they got there, what they are doing or why they are suddenly quiet since there are no reading students who could be disturbed by their usual frantic growling. The Night King has a dragon, knows Bran is outside in the Godswood, could torch him there but decides to walk through the carnage instead.
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Post by movieliker on May 5, 2019 15:24:49 GMT
Through HBO Now or HBO Go? People were/are online complaining about the darkness, which prompted HBO looking into and discovering the issue to be true. They've fixed the issue with future streams of the episode. Now it appears to be about as dark in video quality as the Battle of Blackwater from Season 2. I had the same the same issue as you when I watched the premier on the West Coast of the U.S. It was pretty frustrating to make sense of what was going on, but in a way, I also liked it as I felt the sense of confusion/despair the characters were going through. Still...it was great to go back and re-watch it last night after the fix by HBO. It was like watching it for the first time for me - it made all the difference! Maybe you should too. If you're still having issues with it being mostly overly dark beyond that, check your television/monitor video settings. I took your advice and watched it again and it was better than before. Thanks. I would just like to talk about the battle plan though. What was with sending off the Dothraki horde into the darkness? That made no sense. The dragons were under used - they should have been sent in first, to do all the damage they could, as well as letting off the flaming rocks, or whatever they were. That would have made a lot more sense, but I feel the directors went for the Dothraki for the effect it would have on us, the viewers, to see the lights go out. In my opinion that's not a proper reason for a lack of common sense. Oh, and what was with Bran? I was kind of hoping he might conjure up a horde of forest folk to help in the battle but it seems that all he did was fly around as ravens. I told a friend of mine "Many people are complaining the dragons were either underutilized, or used incorrectly". He said, "The dragons are like atom bombs. If they used them correctly, the battle would have been over in 20 minutes. It may have been good battle strategy. But it would have been terrible for the show and the viewers." What the . . . ?? ??
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