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Post by movieliker on May 5, 2019 15:29:19 GMT
Thanks. I took your advice and watched it again and it was better than before. Thanks. I would just like to talk about the battle plan though. What was with sending off the Dothraki horde into the darkness? That made no sense. The dragons were under used - they should have been sent in first, to do all the damage they could, as well as letting off the flaming rocks, or whatever they were. That would have made a lot more sense, but I feel the directors went for the Dothraki for the effect it would have on us, the viewers, to see the lights go out. In my opinion that's not a proper reason for a lack of common sense. The battle made spectacular and dramatic sense. No more. I read there is also a long scene of Arya avoiding wights in the library, No one knows how they got there, what they are doing or why they are suddenly quiet since there are no reading students who could be disturbed by their usual frantic growling. The Night King has a dragon, knows Bran is outside in the Godswood, could torch him there but decides to walk through the carnage instead. What was Bran even doing out there? Why did they leave him alone until the end? The Army of the Dead only attacked one side of Winterfell? They didn't circle the castle? Seemed like common sense was thrown out the window in favor of drama and melodrama.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 5, 2019 15:30:04 GMT
Through HBO Now or HBO Go? People were/are online complaining about the darkness, which prompted HBO looking into and discovering the issue to be true. They've fixed the issue with future streams of the episode. Now it appears to be about as dark in video quality as the Battle of Blackwater from Season 2. I had the same the same issue as you when I watched the premier on the West Coast of the U.S. It was pretty frustrating to make sense of what was going on, but in a way, I also liked it as I felt the sense of confusion/despair the characters were going through. Still...it was great to go back and re-watch it last night after the fix by HBO. It was like watching it for the first time for me - it made all the difference! Maybe you should too. If you're still having issues with it being mostly overly dark beyond that, check your television/monitor video settings. I took your advice and watched it again and it was better than before. Thanks. I would just like to talk about the battle plan though. What was with sending off the Dothraki horde into the darkness? That made no sense. The dragons were under used - they should have been sent in first, to do all the damage they could, as well as letting off the flaming rocks, or whatever they were. That would have made a lot more sense, but I feel the directors went for the Dothraki for the effect it would have on us, the viewers, to see the lights go out. In my opinion that's not a proper reason for a lack of common sense. Oh, and what was with Bran? I was kind of hoping he might conjure up a horde of forest folk to help in the battle but it seems that all he did was fly around as ravens. The dragons have never been used more than this episode and for multiple plausible purposes. At what point in time would it have been a good time to use the Dothraki? Should they have had a Calvary inside the castle? I think it’s ok to have the episode not to live up to what one wanted but not by using illogical reasons
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on May 5, 2019 15:32:24 GMT
I took your advice and watched it again and it was better than before. Thanks. I would just like to talk about the battle plan though. What was with sending off the Dothraki horde into the darkness? That made no sense. The dragons were under used - they should have been sent in first, to do all the damage they could, as well as letting off the flaming rocks, or whatever they were. That would have made a lot more sense, but I feel the directors went for the Dothraki for the effect it would have on us, the viewers, to see the lights go out. In my opinion that's not a proper reason for a lack of common sense. Oh, and what was with Bran? I was kind of hoping he might conjure up a horde of forest folk to help in the battle but it seems that all he did was fly around as ravens. I told a friend of mine "Many people are complaining the dragons were either underutilized, or used incorrectly". He said, "The dragons are like atom bombs. If they used them correctly, the battle would have been over in 20 minutes. It may have been good battle strategy. But it would have been terrible for the show and the viewers." What the . . . ?? ?? They probably remembered the death of Viserion and didn't want to send them in range of the ice spears.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 5, 2019 15:33:17 GMT
The battle made spectacular and dramatic sense. No more. I read there is also a long scene of Arya avoiding wights in the library, No one knows how they got there, what they are doing or why they are suddenly quiet since there are no reading students who could be disturbed by their usual frantic growling. The Night King has a dragon, knows Bran is outside in the Godswood, could torch him there but decides to walk through the carnage instead. What was Bran even doing out there? Why did they leave him alone until the end? The Army of the Dead only attacked one side of Winterfell? They didn't circle the castle? Seemed like common sense was thrown out the window in favor of drama and melodrama. they didn’t leave Bran alone. They had a whole army within the castle and Theon’s crew his bodyguards. If the had put Bran in the crypt it would have delayed the NK when they wanted him to come as soon as possible. They attacked the whole of Winterfell but focused on the part with the gate. I still don’t understand why people think this battle was similar to any other human one. There was no reason for either side to assume a typical strategy as the battle would be doomed unless the NK showed up.
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Post by movieliker on May 5, 2019 15:48:53 GMT
I told a friend of mine "Many people are complaining the dragons were either underutilized, or used incorrectly". He said, "The dragons are like atom bombs. If they used them correctly, the battle would have been over in 20 minutes. It may have been good battle strategy. But it would have been terrible for the show and the viewers." What the . . . ?? ?? They probably remembered the death of Viserion and didn't want to send them in range of the ice spears. That doesn't explain not being more active in smoking Wights, The Army of the Dead, or whatever the name of the troops fighting for the Night King is, was. This is the most aggregious example; "For example, the whole time between when the trenches were lighted, and the dead start climbing the walls, we see one scene of one dragon firing on the dead fighters. Then we see Jon on his dragon just perched on the castle walls just doing nothing. And Dany and her dragon are nowhere in sight. The dead stood there for a long time until they decided to form a body bridge over the fire. The dragons should have been touching them the whole time."Instead of searching for the Night King, they should have let him come to them.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 5, 2019 15:50:11 GMT
They probably remembered the death of Viserion and didn't want to send them in range of the ice spears. That doesn't explain not being more active in smoking Wights, The Army of the Dead, or whatever the name of the troops fighting for the Night King is, was. This is the most aggregious example; "For example, the whole time between when the trenches were lighted, and the dead start climbing the walls, we see one scene of one dragon firing on the dead fighters. Then we see Jon on his dragon just perched on the castle walls just doing nothing. And Dany and her dragon are nowhere in sight. The dead stood there for a long time until they decided to form a body bridge over the fire. The dragons should have been touching them the whole time."argh
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Post by movieliker on May 5, 2019 15:51:49 GMT
That doesn't explain not being more active in smoking Wights, The Army of the Dead, or whatever the name of the troops fighting for the Night King is, was. This is the most aggregious example; "For example, the whole time between when the trenches were lighted, and the dead start climbing the walls, we see one scene of one dragon firing on the dead fighters. Then we see Jon on his dragon just perched on the castle walls just doing nothing. And Dany and her dragon are nowhere in sight. The dead stood there for a long time until they decided to form a body bridge over the fire. The dragons should have been touching them the whole time."argh Instead of searching for the Night King, they should have let him come to them.
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on May 5, 2019 16:01:28 GMT
They probably remembered the death of Viserion and didn't want to send them in range of the ice spears. That doesn't explain not being more active in smoking Wights, The Army of the Dead, or whatever the name of the troops fighting for the Night King is, was. This is the most aggregious example; "For example, the whole time between when the trenches were lighted, and the dead start climbing the walls, we see one scene of one dragon firing on the dead fighters. Then we see Jon on his dragon just perched on the castle walls just doing nothing. And Dany and her dragon are nowhere in sight. The dead stood there for a long time until they decided to form a body bridge over the fire. The dragons should have been touching them the whole time."Instead of searching for the Night King, they should have let him come to them. If you look closely Dany is smoking wights in both after the trench is lit and when Bran sends the ravens. How long did they wait? Five minutes?
The longer it takes to kill the Night King the more people who die, so being proactive in that regard is kinda understandable.
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Post by movieliker on May 5, 2019 16:06:48 GMT
That doesn't explain not being more active in smoking Wights, The Army of the Dead, or whatever the name of the troops fighting for the Night King is, was. This is the most aggregious example; "For example, the whole time between when the trenches were lighted, and the dead start climbing the walls, we see one scene of one dragon firing on the dead fighters. Then we see Jon on his dragon just perched on the castle walls just doing nothing. And Dany and her dragon are nowhere in sight. The dead stood there for a long time until they decided to form a body bridge over the fire. The dragons should have been touching them the whole time."Instead of searching for the Night King, they should have let him come to them. If you look closely Dany is smoking wights in both after the trench is lit and when Bran sends the ravens. How long did they wait? Five minutes?
The longer it takes to kill the Night King the more people who die, so being proactive in that regard is kinda understandable. After the trenches were lit, the troops defending Winterfell were already behind the walls. Nobody would have died if the dragons were torching the troops fighting for the Night King. They never would have crossed the trenches or scaled the walls. All they would have had to do is wait for the Night King to appear.
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Post by movieliker on May 5, 2019 16:10:08 GMT
What was Bran even doing out there? Why did they leave him alone until the end? The Army of the Dead only attacked one side of Winterfell? They didn't circle the castle? Seemed like common sense was thrown out the window in favor of drama and melodrama. they didn’t leave Bran alone. They had a whole army within the castle and Theon’s crew his bodyguards. If the had put Bran in the crypt it would have delayed the NK when they wanted him to come as soon as possible. They attacked the whole of Winterfell but focused on the part with the gate. I still don’t understand why people think this battle was similar to any other human one. There was no reason for either side to assume a typical strategy as the battle would be doomed unless the NK showed up. That may have been what the books say. Or what we were supposed to think. Or what you think. But that is not what was portrayed in the show.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 5, 2019 16:50:01 GMT
they didn’t leave Bran alone. They had a whole army within the castle and Theon’s crew his bodyguards. If the had put Bran in the crypt it would have delayed the NK when they wanted him to come as soon as possible. They attacked the whole of Winterfell but focused on the part with the gate. I still don’t understand why people think this battle was similar to any other human one. There was no reason for either side to assume a typical strategy as the battle would be doomed unless the NK showed up. That may have been what the books say. Or what we were supposed to think. Or what you think. But that is not what was portrayed in the show. Don't bring the books up if you haven't read the books. It's creating a phony argument when all the evidence to my statement is solely in the TV show. Don't blame me if you didn't bother to pay attention.
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Post by movieliker on May 5, 2019 17:10:04 GMT
That may have been what the books say. Or what we were supposed to think. Or what you think. But that is not what was portrayed in the show. Don't bring the books up if you haven't read the books. It's creating a phony argument when all the evidence to my statement is solely in the TV show. Don't blame me if you didn't bother to pay attention. I paid attention. I just feel you are desperately trying to defend a TV show you want to believe is better than it actually is. It's good. Its popular. Its entertaining. But it is not above criticizm. The dragons were used incorrectly. There was no reason for Bran to be outside the walls. And there is no reason the Night King's troops left him alone for so long. Common sense was sacrificed for drama and melodrama. Quite frankly, the Night King should have focused on killing the dragons. When Jon and his dragon attacked the Night King and his dragon, there was no reason the Night King couldn't have killed Jon's dragon there. He killed the third dragon in the North from a distance. But he couldn't hit Jon's dragon when they both right there fighting. Nonsense.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 5, 2019 17:38:21 GMT
Don't bring the books up if you haven't read the books. It's creating a phony argument when all the evidence to my statement is solely in the TV show. Don't blame me if you didn't bother to pay attention. I paid attention. I just feel you are desperately trying to defend a TV show you want to believe is better than it actually is. It's good. Its popular. Its entertaining. But it is not above criticizm. The dragons were used incorrectly. There was no reason for Bran to be outside the walls. And there is no reason the Night King's troops left him alone for so long. Common sense was sacrificed for drama and melodrama. Quite frankly, the Night King should have focused on killing the dragons. When Jon and his dragon attacked the Night King and his dragon, there was no reason the Night King couldn't have killed Jon's dragon there. He killed the third dragon in the North from a distance. But he couldn't hit Jon's dragon when they both right there fighting. Nonsense. I have as many problems with the show as anyone else, my problems actually involve the storyline though lol. 1. If you are asking why Bran was where he was, then you flatout haven;'t been paying attention. It's that simple. 2. So the NK is supposed to have the same accuracy hanging onto a dragon that he would have on ground with a clear shot 3. Why would he focus on killing the dragons if his focus was Bran and the dragons can't kill him? Lol at you thinking the NK cares about troop loss.
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Post by movieliker on May 5, 2019 17:56:07 GMT
I paid attention. I just feel you are desperately trying to defend a TV show you want to believe is better than it actually is. It's good. Its popular. Its entertaining. But it is not above criticizm. The dragons were used incorrectly. There was no reason for Bran to be outside the walls. And there is no reason the Night King's troops left him alone for so long. Common sense was sacrificed for drama and melodrama. Quite frankly, the Night King should have focused on killing the dragons. When Jon and his dragon attacked the Night King and his dragon, there was no reason the Night King couldn't have killed Jon's dragon there. He killed the third dragon in the North from a distance. But he couldn't hit Jon's dragon when they both right there fighting. Nonsense. I have as many problems with the show as anyone else, my problems actually involve the storyline though lol. 1. If you are asking why Bran was where he was, then you flatout haven;'t been paying attention. It's that simple. 2. So the NK is supposed to have the same accuracy hanging onto a dragon that he would have on ground with a clear shot 3. Why would he focus on killing the dragons if his focus was Bran and the dragons can't kill him? Lol at you thinking the NK cares about troop loss. Hey, I never claimed to be a GoT expert. Why was Bran outside the walls of the castle? Why was he left alone for so long by the Night King and his army? What did Bran actually do?
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on May 5, 2019 18:05:18 GMT
I have as many problems with the show as anyone else, my problems actually involve the storyline though lol. 1. If you are asking why Bran was where he was, then you flatout haven;'t been paying attention. It's that simple. 2. So the NK is supposed to have the same accuracy hanging onto a dragon that he would have on ground with a clear shot 3. Why would he focus on killing the dragons if his focus was Bran and the dragons can't kill him? Lol at you thinking the NK cares about troop loss. Hey, I never claimed to be a GoT expert. Why was Bran outside the walls of the castle? Why was he left alone for so long by the Night King and his army? What did Bran actually do? Bran was bait for the Night King, they discussed this at the strategy session the episode previous.
The Night King wanted to kill all the defenders of Winterfell too, just killing Bran wasn't enough for him. With the castle breached and the two dragons disabled I guess the Night King figured it was time for his victory lap.
He warged into Ravens, I don't know why either, Bran works in mysterious ways.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 5, 2019 18:07:27 GMT
I have as many problems with the show as anyone else, my problems actually involve the storyline though lol. 1. If you are asking why Bran was where he was, then you flatout haven;'t been paying attention. It's that simple. 2. So the NK is supposed to have the same accuracy hanging onto a dragon that he would have on ground with a clear shot 3. Why would he focus on killing the dragons if his focus was Bran and the dragons can't kill him? Lol at you thinking the NK cares about troop loss. Hey, I never claimed to be a GoT expert. Why was Bran outside the walls of the castle? Why was he left alone for so long by the Night King and his army? What did Bran actually do? No one would ever mistake you for an expert. I'm not one either, but to willfully ignore reasons EXPLAINED IN THE SHOW for the sake of defending your own is silly. It is entirely your business if you want to create fan fiction. I just made a thread doing so, but don't justify it by changing the show's clearly explain storyline even if you don't like that clearly defined storyline. Bran is the 3 Eyed Raven and NK has been looking for him ever since he became that. It was explained what the 3 Eyed Raven does which was a concept that has existed since the very first episode.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 20:19:44 GMT
*sigh*
6/10
A poor episode with garbage can writing. But I keep it positive because of what Miguel Sapochnik achieved here is truly impressive: he is truly going to be the star of this final season, and the individual who will make it watchable.
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Post by movieliker on May 5, 2019 22:37:29 GMT
Hey, I never claimed to be a GoT expert. Why was Bran outside the walls of the castle? Why was he left alone for so long by the Night King and his army? What did Bran actually do? No one would ever mistake you for an expert. I'm not one either, but to willfully ignore reasons EXPLAINED IN THE SHOW for the sake of defending your own is silly. It is entirely your business if you want to create fan fiction. I just made a thread doing so, but don't justify it by changing the show's clearly explain storyline even if you don't like that clearly defined storyline. Bran is the 3 Eyed Raven and NK has been looking for him ever since he became that. It was explained what the 3 Eyed Raven does which was a concept that has existed since the very first episode. It wasn't clearly defined. Or I would have been aware.
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on May 5, 2019 22:48:31 GMT
No one would ever mistake you for an expert. I'm not one either, but to willfully ignore reasons EXPLAINED IN THE SHOW for the sake of defending your own is silly. It is entirely your business if you want to create fan fiction. I just made a thread doing so, but don't justify it by changing the show's clearly explain storyline even if you don't like that clearly defined storyline. Bran is the 3 Eyed Raven and NK has been looking for him ever since he became that. It was explained what the 3 Eyed Raven does which was a concept that has existed since the very first episode. It wasn't clearly defined. Or I would have been aware. It took me a few viewings to take it all in myself. I suspect this is an episode that will work better in a binge than having to wait a week between episodes.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 6, 2019 1:21:20 GMT
*sigh* 6/10 A poor episode with garbage can writing. But I keep it positive because of what Miguel Sapochnik achieved here is truly impressive: he is truly going to be the star of this final season, and the individual who will make it watchable. This amounts to saying that the shit pie was well seasoned. No thanks.
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