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Post by gljbradley on Jul 2, 2019 5:01:55 GMT
I'm probably in the minority but I don't blame them for feeling the way they feel because Disney did a serious number on the Star Wars franchise due to their greed, pride, and incompetence.
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Post by ck100 on Jul 2, 2019 5:04:18 GMT
Disney did a serious number on the Star Wars franchise due to their greed, pride, and incompetence. Isn't Disney doing that to all its franchises? And now especially with the franchises it bought from Fox?
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Post by Winston Wolfe on Jul 2, 2019 5:13:53 GMT
These days? They’ve always been a bunch of whiny bitches. Remember what they were saying when the prequels came out? “Luca$ raped my childhood!!!!111” etc. Funny how they love them now all of a sudden... So is any and all criticism of the franchise invalid? Of course not. If anything most of the criticisms are valid, but the over the top, frothing at the mouth rabid overreactions are too much.
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Post by kuatorises on Jul 2, 2019 13:41:28 GMT
So is any and all criticism of the franchise invalid? Of course not. If anything most of the criticisms are valid, but the over the top, frothing at the mouth rabid overreactions are too much. What's an overreaction though? The prequels are pretty awful movies with no redeeming qualities or re-watch factor. A lot of people and critics think that. Is that over-the-top? I get the rape thing. I hate when people say that too. I don't find "rape humor" funny. It's just not something that should be tossed around so lightly. Plus, I agree that bad movies now have no effect on what you liked as a kid. The original trilogy isn't bad just because you don't like one of the new movies. But who decides what's over-the-top? What about the whole Rose controversy? I do not condone harassing the poor girl, but I thought her performance in the character or both quite bad. I will not pretend I think that she was good just because people are mean to her. Is that allowed?
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Post by moviemouth on Jul 2, 2019 14:38:23 GMT
Of course not. If anything most of the criticisms are valid, but the over the top, frothing at the mouth rabid overreactions are too much. What's an overreaction though? The prequels are pretty awful movies with no redeeming qualities or re-watch factor. A lot of people and critics think that. Is that over-the-top? I get the rape thing. I hate when people say that too. I don't find "rape humor" funny. It's just not something that should be tossed around so lightly. Plus, I agree that bad movies now have no effect on what you liked as a kid. The original trilogy isn't bad just because you don't like one of the new movies. But who decides what's over-the-top? What about the whole Rose controversy? I do not condone harassing the poor girl, but I thought her performance in the character or both quite bad. I will not pretend I think that she was good just because people are mean to her. Is that allowed? Interesting question. An OTT reaction is anything that goes beyond mere criticism. Saying a movie raped your childhood IS an overreaction and a also nonsensical statement. To go around announcing to everyone that you are boycotting a movie is an overreaction. I would say most of what fanboys do and say is overreaction and not just in the case of Star Wars movies. Of course that is just MY opinion of what is an overreaction.
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Post by kuatorises on Jul 2, 2019 14:47:22 GMT
What's an overreaction though? The prequels are pretty awful movies with no redeeming qualities or re-watch factor. A lot of people and critics think that. Is that over-the-top? I get the rape thing. I hate when people say that too. I don't find "rape humor" funny. It's just not something that should be tossed around so lightly. Plus, I agree that bad movies now have no effect on what you liked as a kid. The original trilogy isn't bad just because you don't like one of the new movies. But who decides what's over-the-top? What about the whole Rose controversy? I do not condone harassing the poor girl, but I thought her performance in the character or both quite bad. I will not pretend I think that she was good just because people are mean to her. Is that allowed? Interesting question. An OTT reaction is anything that goes beyond mere criticism. Saying a movie raped your childhood IS an overreaction and a also nonsensical statement. To go around announcing to everyone that you are boycotting a movie is an overreaction. Of course that is just MY opinion of what is an overreaction. It's hyperbole. I agree with you it's a stupid statement, but it's still just a statement. It has no effect on anyone and is not out outright harassment like what happened with Kelly Marie Tran.
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Post by moviemouth on Jul 2, 2019 15:02:06 GMT
Interesting question. An OTT reaction is anything that goes beyond mere criticism. Saying a movie raped your childhood IS an overreaction and a also nonsensical statement. To go around announcing to everyone that you are boycotting a movie is an overreaction. Of course that is just MY opinion of what is an overreaction. It's hyperbole. I agree with you it's a stupid statement, but it's still just a statement. It has no effect on anyone and is not out outright harassment like what happened with Kelly Marie Tran. Oh, I agree there is a big difference but when people use the word "rape" when discussing a movie it is irritating. Get some perspective people. When a movie being bad is actually interrupting someone's life that is just pathetic imo. I'd say getting mad at and/or threatening people regarding differing opinions of movies is an overreation. Remember when fanboys were making threats against critics who disliked The Dark Knight Rises? That is an overreation of the worst kind. Someone not going to see a movie because they are no longer interested isn't even remotely an overreation. It is something that actual makes complete logical sense. Someone going around announcing it to the world is another matter though. I am not saying that I never overreact, but I am the first person to admit when I am overreating.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jul 2, 2019 17:27:41 GMT
If there are fans of anything boycotting it before its even come out... then they're NOT fans. Period. Fans give the thing a chance before they shoot it down. Doesn't seeing the first two episodes qualify as giving the sequel trilogy a chance? If you hated TLJ, and hated the way fans were treated by Lucasfilm in response to valid criticism, what option do you have to voice your displeasure other than withholding your money? If not seeing every movie in a franchise means surrendering your "fan card" then I guess lots of Hellboy, X-Men, and MIB fans are no more in 2019. A) But this isn't just not going to see it. The OP reads boycotting, which means you don't want ANYONE to see it.
B) How were fans were treated by Lucasfilm in response to "valid" criticism?
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Post by moviemouth on Jul 2, 2019 17:44:45 GMT
Doesn't seeing the first two episodes qualify as giving the sequel trilogy a chance? If you hated TLJ, and hated the way fans were treated by Lucasfilm in response to valid criticism, what option do you have to voice your displeasure other than withholding your money? If not seeing every movie in a franchise means surrendering your "fan card" then I guess lots of Hellboy, X-Men, and MIB fans are no more in 2019. A) But this isn't just not going to see it. The OP reads boycotting, which means you don't want ANYONE to see it.
B) How were fans were treated by Lucasfilm in response to "valid" criticism?
That isn't how the OP is interpreting the term boycotting imo. Everything he has said in this and previous posts suggests to me that he is calling out anyone who simply has no interest in watching the movie.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jul 2, 2019 17:50:47 GMT
Doesn't seeing the first two episodes qualify as giving the sequel trilogy a chance? If you hated TLJ, and hated the way fans were treated by Lucasfilm in response to valid criticism, what option do you have to voice your displeasure other than withholding your money? If not seeing every movie in a franchise means surrendering your "fan card" then I guess lots of Hellboy, X-Men, and MIB fans are no more in 2019. Yes it does. Anyone who isn't capable of understanding this is a flat out moron. I will say I think it is a little silly to be actively boycotting the movie rather than just not watching it because you have lost interest. Anybody who calls out someone for the latter needs to be bitch slapped though. So then you agree with the flat out morons that need to be bitch slapped. You like contradicting yourself, I see. Well, here's your bitch slap then...
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Post by moviemouth on Jul 2, 2019 17:54:29 GMT
Yes it does. Anyone who isn't capable of understanding this is a flat out moron. I will say I think it is a little silly to be actively boycotting the movie rather than just not watching it because you have lost interest. Anybody who calls out someone for the latter needs to be bitch slapped though. So then you agree with the flat out morons that need to be bitch slapped. You like contradicting yourself, I see. Well, here's your bitch slap then...
How do I agree with them? I am saying that anyone who blames someone for not wanting to watch a movie they have no interest in is being dumb.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jul 2, 2019 18:57:30 GMT
So then you agree with the flat out morons that need to be bitch slapped. You like contradicting yourself, I see. Well, here's your bitch slap then...
How do I agree with them? I am saying that anyone who blames someone for not wanting to watch a movie they have no interest in is being dumb. Whatever
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Post by alpha128 on Jul 2, 2019 23:13:26 GMT
Doesn't seeing the first two episodes qualify as giving the sequel trilogy a chance? If you hated TLJ, and hated the way fans were treated by Lucasfilm in response to valid criticism, what option do you have to voice your displeasure other than withholding your money? If not seeing every movie in a franchise means surrendering your "fan card" then I guess lots of Hellboy, X-Men, and MIB fans are no more in 2019. A) But this isn't just not going to see it. The OP reads boycotting, which means you don't want ANYONE to see it.
B) How were fans were treated by Lucasfilm in response to "valid" criticism? A) I didn't read it that way. I interpreted the word "boycott" as a personal decision. I'm not going to see TROS, but I'm not going to tell anyone else what to do with their time and money. B) Ever since TLJ backlash started, Lucasfilm has been saying, "Oh no we didn't make a bad movie, if you didn't like it, then you're a bad person." They have labelled anyone critical of TLJ as toxic, sexist, racist, misogynist, etc. They even went so far as to deny the humanity of TLJ critics and accuse them of being Russian bots, a claim that was debunked. In November 2018, I satirized this state of affairs as follows: That's still better than what's going on with the Star Wars franchise. Fan: "I want more Star Wars." Franchise: "Okay, here's The Force Awakens. It's practically a remake of the original Star Wars film. Fan: "That was fun, but I would have preferred something more original." Franchise: "Fine, we'll subvert all of your expectations in The Last Jedi." Fan: "I said 'original' - not 'subversive'. You disrespected the lore and the original trilogy characters." Franchise: "You're just an overweight white guy living in his parents' basement!" Fan: "I own my home. And my wife didn't like it either." Franchise: "You're racist! The both of you!" Fan: "Enough! We boycotted Solo: A Star Wars Story and look, it tanked." Franchise: "You're not a real person! You're a Russian bot!" Fan: "And we're boycotting Episode IX too!" Franchise: "Screw you! We just renewed Kathleen Kennedy's contract for three more years!"
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jul 3, 2019 0:17:24 GMT
A) But this isn't just not going to see it. The OP reads boycotting, which means you don't want ANYONE to see it.
B) How were fans were treated by Lucasfilm in response to "valid" criticism? A) I didn't read it that way. I interpreted the word "boycott" as a personal decision. I'm not going to see TROS, but I'm not going to tell anyone else what to do with their time and money. B) Ever since TLJ backlash started, Lucasfilm has been saying, "Oh no we didn't make a bad movie, if you didn't like it, then you're a bad person." They have labelled anyone critical of TLJ as toxic, sexist, racist, misogynist, etc. They even went so far as to deny the humanity of TLJ critics and accuse them of being Russian bots, a claim that was debunked. In November 2018, I satirized this state of affairs as follows: That's still better than what's going on with the Star Wars franchise. Fan: "I want more Star Wars." Franchise: "Okay, here's The Force Awakens. It's practically a remake of the original Star Wars film. Fan: "That was fun, but I would have preferred something more original." Franchise: "Fine, we'll subvert all of your expectations in The Last Jedi." Fan: "I said 'original' - not 'subversive'. You disrespected the lore and the original trilogy characters." Franchise: "You're just an overweight white guy living in his parents' basement!" Fan: "I own my home. And my wife didn't like it either." Franchise: "You're racist! The both of you!" Fan: "Enough! We boycotted Solo: A Star Wars Story and look, it tanked." Franchise: "You're not a real person! You're a Russian bot!" Fan: "And we're boycotting Episode IX too!" Franchise: "Screw you! We just renewed Kathleen Kennedy's contract for three more years!" A) You're really not going to see TROS? Really? Reeeeeeally?
B) I disagree. They only called folks toxic, sexist, racist, misogynist, etc. when they were being toxic, sexist, racist, misogynist.
You cant deny the toxicity. That shit is there. If you deny it then you're blind.
The sexism and misogyny response is for all the hate Rey, and later Rose, got. When Rey was called Luke in the OT trilogy no one cried mary sue then. Even Kathleen Kennedy herself got tons of hate. And hell yeah I believe a good part of it is because she's a woman.
Racist? You don't remember all the monkey jokes when John Boyegas sweaty face was the first thing they saw in the trailer? I do. It wasn't funny. I was a little disgusted for the human race, to be honest.
You're seeing things a little one sided.
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Post by alpha128 on Jul 3, 2019 1:03:44 GMT
A) You're really not going to see TROS? Really? Reeeeeeally?
Yes, really. And I don't appreciate being called a liar. B) I disagree. They only called folks toxic, sexist, racist, misogynist, etc. when they were being toxic, sexist, racist, misogynist.
You cant deny the toxicity. That shit is there. If you deny it then you're blind. I don't deny it. But Lucasfilm and their allies in the entertainment media were quick to paint the fans with a broad brush and attack anyone critical of TLJ with those prejoratives. Even J.J. Abrams said people who didn't like TLJ were "intimidated by strong female characters" - as if that was the only possible reason for disliking the film.
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Post by OldAussie on Jul 3, 2019 1:10:54 GMT
As a non-fan of Star Wars I'll say THE FORCE AWAKENS was fair, but THE LAST JEDI was garbage. I can understand the FANaticS being upset.
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Post by johnspartan on Jul 3, 2019 1:31:13 GMT
A) You're really not going to see TROS? Really? Reeeeeeally?
Yes, really. And I don't appreciate being called a liar. B) I disagree. They only called folks toxic, sexist, racist, misogynist, etc. when they were being toxic, sexist, racist, misogynist.
You cant deny the toxicity. That shit is there. If you deny it then you're blind. I don't deny it. But Lucasfilm and their allies in the entertainment media were quick to paint the fans with a broad brush and attack anyone critical of TLJ with those prejoratives. Even J.J. Abrams said people who didn't like TLJ were "intimidated by strong female characters" - as if that was the only possible reason for disliking the film. Yeah, Jar Jar Abrams conveniently forgot about Leia, Amidala and Asoka Tano.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jul 3, 2019 15:52:56 GMT
A) You're really not going to see TROS? Really? Reeeeeeally?
Yes, really. And I don't appreciate being called a liar. B) I disagree. They only called folks toxic, sexist, racist, misogynist, etc. when they were being toxic, sexist, racist, misogynist.
You cant deny the toxicity. That shit is there. If you deny it then you're blind. I don't deny it. But Lucasfilm and their allies in the entertainment media were quick to paint the fans with a broad brush and attack anyone critical of TLJ with those prejoratives. Even J.J. Abrams said people who didn't like TLJ were "intimidated by strong female characters" - as if that was the only possible reason for disliking the film. I didn't call you a liar. I just said...
giggle
And here's my response to the rest. If you don't think that YOU are "toxic, sexist, racist, misogynist, or intimidated by strong female characters" then they don't mean YOU . They mean the people ARE toxic, sexist, racist, misogynist, or intimidated by strong female characters. Because those people DO exist and they took this opportunity to come out in droves! In some cases it was incredibly obvious!
You feel like you were painted with a brush that was meant for others. Well... just don't. I made some complaints myself. But I didn't frame them in terms of toxicity, sexism, racism, misogyny, or intimidation by strong female characters. I framed it in terms of film making techniques and story plot holes. Easy solve.
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Post by alpha128 on Jul 4, 2019 0:17:55 GMT
I didn't call you a liar. I just said...
giggle So instead of directly calling me a liar, you implied I was a liar, and tried to smooth over the accusation with cutesy humor. The end result is still the same. And here's my response to the rest. If you don't think that YOU are "toxic, sexist, racist, misogynist, or intimidated by strong female characters" then they don't mean YOU... You feel like you were painted with a brush that was meant for others. Well... just don't. I know I'm not "toxic, sexist, racist, misogynist, or intimidated by strong female characters". That's not the point. The point is Lucasfilm and their supporters have been demonizing millions of people for their opinions of a movie. Look at some headlines: Star Wars fan survey claims ‘The Last Jedi haters more likely to be SEXIST and anti-PC’Half of 'Last Jedi' haters were bots, trolls, activists, study saysThe Year Star Wars Fans Finally Ruined Star WarsDon't see the problem? Imagine replacing the words "'Last Jedi' haters" and "Star Wars Fans" with other words, e.g., "Blacks" and "Jews". Now do you see the problem? What they are doing is wrong - period.
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Post by gljbradley on Jul 5, 2019 3:03:40 GMT
Disney did a serious number on the Star Wars franchise due to their greed, pride, and incompetence. Isn't Disney doing that to all its franchises? And now especially with the franchises it bought from Fox? Yes, they are.
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