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Post by moviemouth on Aug 28, 2019 19:22:02 GMT
Does it feel to anyone else that the the new trilogy is just not thought through at all?
With the OT and even the prequels it felt like Lucas had an idea of where he was going to take everything from the start of both trilogies.
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Post by jcush on Aug 28, 2019 19:32:41 GMT
Yep.
I think it would have helped if they had the same writers for all three.
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Post by ck100 on Aug 28, 2019 19:36:58 GMT
I think we can admit that this trilogy is the most financially motivated compared to the two previous trilogies as well as the least creatively motivated.
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Post by johnspartan on Aug 28, 2019 19:37:39 GMT
Does it feel to anyone else that the the new trilogy is just not thought through at all? With the OT and even the prequels it felt like Lucas had an idea of where he was going to take everything from the start of both trilogies. Disney Star Wars is written by a group of women who have almost ZERO professional experience. https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/8zm8jw/regarding_the_lucasfilm_story_group/
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 19:54:36 GMT
Does it feel to anyone else that the the new trilogy is just not thought through at all? From what I’ve read there was a plan for the trilogy but when Rian Jonson came in he wanted to do his own thing and ‘subvert expectations’. Whatever you think of the last Jedi, it’s really left the story with very few places to go, so now they’re left scrambling. On the other hand it’s pretty obvious that Vader wasn’t meant to be Luke’s father in the first movie, and they didn’t think of making Luke and Leia siblings until the third.
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Post by ck100 on Aug 28, 2019 20:04:10 GMT
I do like The Force Awakens, but that movie should have been the Star Wars movie that Rian Johnson is working on now instead of a film that was clearly a self-conscious means of damage control toward people who didn't like the prequels.
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Post by moviemouth on Aug 28, 2019 20:06:56 GMT
Does it feel to anyone else that the the new trilogy is just not thought through at all? From what I’ve read there was a plan for the trilogy but when Rian Jonson came in he wanted to do his own thing and ‘subvert expectations’. Whatever you think of the last Jedi, it’s really left the story with very few places to go, so now they’re left scrambling. On the other hand it’s pretty obvious that Vader wasn’t meant to be Luke’s father in the first movie, and they didn’t think of making Luke and Leia siblings until the third. I didn't know Rian Johsnon had Christopher Nolan credibility in Hollywood. That is just strange to me that they would abandon their original plan because of Rian Johnson.
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Post by moviemouth on Aug 28, 2019 20:08:14 GMT
I do like The Force Awakens, but that movie should have been the Star Wars movie that Rian Johnson is working on now instead of a film that was clearly a self-conscious means of damage control toward people who didn't like the prequels.That was always the impression that I got.
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Post by johnspartan on Aug 28, 2019 20:10:48 GMT
From what I’ve read there was a plan for the trilogy but when Rian Jonson came in he wanted to do his own thing and ‘subvert expectations’. Whatever you think of the last Jedi, it’s really left the story with very few places to go, so now they’re left scrambling. On the other hand it’s pretty obvious that Vader wasn’t meant to be Luke’s father in the first movie, and they didn’t think of making Luke and Leia siblings until the third. I didn't know Rian Johsnon had Christopher Nolan credibility in Hollywood. That is just strange to me that they would abandon their original plan because of Rian Johnson. That was Kathleen Kennedy's boneheaded decision. She wanted Ruin to direct Rise of Sywalker too, but the fans vetoed that decision.
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Post by moviemouth on Aug 28, 2019 20:16:05 GMT
I didn't know Rian Johsnon had Christopher Nolan credibility in Hollywood. That is just strange to me that they would abandon their original plan because of Rian Johnson. That was Kathleen Kennedy's boneheaded decision. She wanted Ruin to direct Rise of Sywalker too, but the fans vetoed that decision. My point is that the decision makes no sense from any standpoint.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Aug 28, 2019 20:27:56 GMT
Disney's mistake was admitting it. I think because auteur theory was kinda in a while ago, but now Kevin Feige has made the "overlord who plans everything and filmmakers are just puppets" stuff cool, so Disney saying "yeah, we didn't force Johnson to follow all of JJ's ideas and let him make the movie he wanted to make" was kind of a whoopsie daisy.
Despite all the after-the-fact postering, Lucas clearly didn't have the OT planned out. Vader wasn't always Luke's father, Leia sure as hell wasn't Luke's sister, Han was some fish creature and likely not going to be Leia's love interest (him being in the sequels at all was always up in the air with Ford), Guinness said it was his idea to kill off Obi-Wan in the first film, The Emperor went from regular politition to Sith to Sith With Different Actor And Design. Etc.
Even the PT, despite 20 years to develop them, was made up as it went along. That's why there's 200 inconsistencies between what they say happened in the OT and what does happen in the PT. You can see in any of the BTS features Lucas struggling to write the scripts.
My point is not to say "see, those movies are bad too", but to say "I don't give a shit, and I don't get why anyone else gives a shit." Nolan's Batman trilogy was made up as it went along. The Toy Story trilogy was made up as it went along. It's probably better to tell long form storytelling that way, to let it evolve naturally instead of having a forced conclusion you have to meet. Ie Game of Thrones.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 20:40:39 GMT
That was Kathleen Kennedy's boneheaded decision. She wanted Ruin to direct Rise of Sywalker too, but the fans vetoed that decision. My point is that the decision makes no sense from any standpoint. My best guess is that JJ decided he didn't want to do another film. He's great at setting things up and getting them going, but he's really no so good at following through on them. So Rian Johnson gets it, with the idea that he will do parts 2 and 3. When Last Jedi proved controversial Kennedy begged/paid JJ enough that he came back. Honestly it's just poor handling of the whole thing on Kennedy's part.
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Post by moviemouth on Aug 28, 2019 20:43:59 GMT
My point is that the decision makes no sense from any standpoint. My best guess is that JJ decided he didn't want to do another film. He's great at setting things up and getting them going, but he's really no so good at following through on them. So Rian Johnson gets it, with the idea that he will do parts 2 and 3. When Last Jedi proved controversial Kennedy begged/paid JJ enough that he came back. Honestly it's just poor handling of the whole thing on Kennedy's part. 
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 20:46:41 GMT
Despite all the after-the-fact postering, Lucas clearly didn't have the OT planned out. Vader wasn't always Luke's father, Leia sure as hell wasn't Luke's sister, Han was some fish creature and likely not going to be Leia's love interest (him being in the sequels at all was always up in the air with Ford), Guinness said it was his idea to kill off Obi-Wan in the first film, The Emperor went from regular politition to Sith to Sith With Different Actor And Design. Etc. If you read the novelisation of the original movie, IIRC it states clearly that the Emperor is purely a figurehead and the senior military and bureaucrats are completely in control of the Empire. Which actually makes sense of the fact that Tarkin ordered Vader around, and Leia considered Tarkin to be the one in control, with Vader 'on his leash'. Wasn't until Empire Strikes Back that the Emperor became some kind of evil overlord.
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Post by anthonyrocks on Aug 28, 2019 20:56:55 GMT
Respectfully, I have to disagree.
I actually like these New " STAR WARS" Movies and I cannot wait to see " THE RISE OF SKYWALKER" in December. 
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Post by James on Aug 28, 2019 21:00:37 GMT
Perhaps it is, and that’s only because of the shifting of directors/writers going back and forth with each entry. I think TLJ can be considered the black sheep of the trilogy, if not the whole series.
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Post by anthonyrocks on Aug 28, 2019 21:04:29 GMT
I am glad that George Lucas was involved with the story for "THE RISE OF SKYWALKER".
I know that it was reported and then confirmed that JJ Abrams brought him in during filming to help re-write the 2nd and 3rd Acts of the Movie.
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Post by moviemouth on Aug 28, 2019 21:12:45 GMT
Disney's mistake was admitting it. I think because auteur theory was kinda in a while ago, but now Kevin Feige has made the "overlord who plans everything and filmmakers are just puppets" stuff cool, so Disney saying "yeah, we didn't force Johnson to follow all of JJ's ideas and let him make the movie he wanted to make" was kind of a whoopsie daisy. Despite all the after-the-fact postering, Lucas clearly didn't have the OT planned out. Vader wasn't always Luke's father, Leia sure as hell wasn't Luke's sister, Han was some fish creature and likely not going to be Leia's love interest (him being in the sequels at all was always up in the air with Ford), Guinness said it was his idea to kill off Obi-Wan in the first film, The Emperor went from regular politition to Sith to Sith With Different Actor And Design. Etc. Even the PT, despite 20 years to develop them, was made up as it went along. That's why there's 200 inconsistencies between what they say happened in the OT and what does happen in the PT. You can see in any of the BTS features Lucas struggling to write the scripts. My point is not to say "see, those movies are bad too", but to say "I don't give a shit, and I don't get why anyone else gives a shit." Nolan's Batman trilogy was made up as it went along. The Toy Story trilogy was made up as it went along. It's probably better to tell long form storytelling that way, to let it evolve naturally instead of having a forced conclusion you have to meet. Ie Game of Thrones. Yes, but the Toy Story movies and Nolan's Batman trilogy were play it by ear. It felt like they had a trilogy planned right from the get go with the new Star Wars movies. I never noticed that the stuff about the OT. I just assumed he had the whole Darth Vader is Luke's father thing panned before hand. It felt that way to me, but I guess I just didn't notice. If it was so obvious that he wasn't suppose to be Luke's father is the original, than why did everyone love it so much when it happened. Do they just ignore obvious things that conflict with that in A New Hope?
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Post by moviemouth on Aug 28, 2019 21:13:48 GMT
Perhaps it is, and that’s only because of the shifting of directors/writers going back and forth with each entry. I think TLJ can be considered the black sheep of the trilogy, if not the whole series. Solo, unless you are talking cannon. Seriously, Solo can kiss my ass.
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Post by James on Aug 28, 2019 21:28:48 GMT
Perhaps it is, and that’s only because of the shifting of directors/writers going back and forth with each entry. I think TLJ can be considered the black sheep of the trilogy, if not the whole series. Solo, unless you are talking cannon. Seriously, Solo can kiss my ass. It probably is too. Then again so are the prequels. There’s a lot more black sheeps in this franchise than usual. Anyway, I was referring to ALL Star Wars movies. Keep in mind I don’t think “black sheep” means that it’s the worst of the series, just different from the others in a storytelling or stylistic manner. |
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