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Post by BATouttaheck on Nov 25, 2019 22:15:31 GMT
Sure they can ! It's foolhardy though, to expect everyone to agree with them and to keep silent if they do not. Then what has whether I've written hit songs myself have to do with anything? Your first reply to me was asking what songs I have written, as if that's required to express an opinion about Paul McCartney.
You don't have to be a chicken to know what an egg is.
I did not ask you anything.. 'Twas but a simple suggestion … .. "Now post the lyrics of some of your hits that have been remembered for decades." Read into it what ye will !
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Post by petrolino on Nov 25, 2019 22:30:09 GMT
Well George did make one of the best Beatles song ("MY Guitar Gently Weeps) and possibly the best Beatles solo song "My Sweet Lord", though it is a ripoff of this song:
Now George Harrison's no longer with us, we need a release of the Beatles' 'Carnival Of Light' (1967).
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Post by petrolino on Nov 25, 2019 23:14:13 GMT
The genius of Paul McCartney is in the songwriting, including the part that actually involves, you know, music, as opposed to just the lyrics. Song lyrics are almost never as deep as actual poetry, and that's as it should be. I think it was Leonard Bernstein who felt Lennon & McCartney to be the finest songwriters since George & Ira Gershwin.
Paul McCartney did a bit of comedy poetry when he was young, but he tried his hand at a lot of things. His brother was in the Scaffold with Roger McGough. McCartney did know some poets, like Paolo Lionni, I just think of him as a musician who plays many instruments, and as a songwriter, even though I like a lot of his lyrics.
Here, with Marianne Faithfull, Ivor Cutler, Roger McGough, Allen Ginsberg ....
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Nov 25, 2019 23:35:57 GMT
The genius of Paul McCartney is in the songwriting, including the part that actually involves, you know, music, as opposed to just the lyrics. Song lyrics are almost never as deep as actual poetry, and that's as it should be. Who made you the arbiter of what song lyrics 'should be'? It's nothing to do with me, it has to do with how music interacts with language.
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Post by heeeeey on Nov 25, 2019 23:45:30 GMT
Who made you the arbiter of what song lyrics 'should be'? It's nothing to do with me, it has to do with how music interacts with language. There are some song lyrics that ARE as deep as actual poetry. Song lyrics can be anything.
I'm just saying Paul wrote the most simplistic lyrics.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Nov 26, 2019 10:50:01 GMT
It's nothing to do with me, it has to do with how music interacts with language. There are some song lyrics that ARE as deep as actual poetry. I'm going to call BS on you knowing the first thing about how to measure "depth" in poetry or lyrics.
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Post by heeeeey on Nov 30, 2019 1:20:41 GMT
There are some song lyrics that ARE as deep as actual poetry. I'm going to call BS on you knowing the first thing about how to measure "depth" in poetry or lyrics. I used to read poetry all the time, and even wrote poetry when I was high school and in my 20s. You obviously are unable to measure depth in song lyrics.
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Post by heeeeey on Nov 30, 2019 1:21:45 GMT
This is probably the only PMc song I like, and yet I don't like it that much:
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Post by petrolino on Nov 30, 2019 1:29:52 GMT
This is probably the only PMc song I like, and yet I don't like it that much: Do you like any of his classical music? How about the 'Liverpool Oratorio'? Or scoring from a back passage?
I like 'The Family Way' (1966) but that's one of my favourite movies ...
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Post by heeeeey on Nov 30, 2019 1:53:53 GMT
This is probably the only PMc song I like, and yet I don't like it that much: Do you like any of his classical music? How about the 'Liverpool Oratorio'? Or scoring from a back passage?
I like 'The Family Way' (1966) but that's one of my favourite movies ...
No, I don't like his classical compositions. I find them quite boring. But I think I'd like to see that movie. Is that Hayley Mills?
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Nov 30, 2019 2:01:30 GMT
I'm going to call BS on you knowing the first thing about how to measure "depth" in poetry or lyrics. I used to read poetry all the time, and even wrote poetry when I was high school and in my 20s. So doing something automatically makes you an expert on something? Did you ever bother to crack a textbook on the subject?
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Post by petrolino on Nov 30, 2019 2:02:50 GMT
Do you like any of his classical music? How about the 'Liverpool Oratorio'? Or scoring from a back passage?
I like 'The Family Way' (1966) but that's one of my favourite movies ...
No, I don't like his classical compositions. I find them quite boring. But I think I'd like to see that movie. Is that Hayley Mills?
Yes, she worked on several projects with co-star Hywel Bennett. McCartney was a good choice to score the movie because it's set in the industrial north-west of England. You still see pictures in the Liverpool Echo and Manchester Evening News of McCartney growing up, because he's helped with the area's regeneration. There's also a lot of Irish catholics in both cities at any given time.
'Liverpool traditionally is known as having the strongest Irish heritage of any British city, with the probable exception of Glasgow. The large number of Irish here originates from the city's port being close to Ireland, which made it in easy reach for all those escaping the potato famine during the 1800s. The Irish have played a major role in Liverpool's population and social fabric for a good part of the city's eight-hundred year history. A lot of Liverpudlians have some Irish ancestry, their Irish ancestors are most likely to have come to Liverpool in the 19th century. The Irish influence is heard in the local Liverpool dialect, often called Scouse, and seen in the faces and names of the populace. At least three of Liverpool's most famous citizens, The Beatles, had some Irish ancestry. George Harrison was partly of maternal Irish-Catholic derivation. Bandmate Sir Paul McCartney had one Irish grandfather and an Irish great-grandfather. John Lennon's father's family were the descendants of Irish migrants who came to Liverpool in the 19th century. Ringo Starr has one family bloodline tracing to County Mayo. Liverpool's Irish heritage is further highlighted by it being the only English city to have a significant Orange Order membership, it is also has a large catholic majority and is the most catholic city in the U.K. The Irish have also come to be as much of a staple of Merseyside in general, as of Liverpool itself. Many of the towns which surround the city in the county, such as Crosby, Widnes, Birkenhead, Newton-le-Willows, Wallasey, Bootle and Moreton, have many ethnic Irish people, and have also inherited the Scouse accent. Likewise, numerous overspill towns were built to house Liverpool's population in the years that followed, or took in a significant amount of Liverpool overspill, such as Huyton, Kirkby, Skelmersdale, Litherland, Winsford, Halewood, Runcorn and Warrington, and consequently these also have many people of Irish descent. Manchester has strong and long established Irish connections. It has been estimated that around 35% of Manchester's population has some Irish ancestry. As in Liverpool, city residents of Irish heritage have been influential in the music industry. All four members of the Smiths had Irish roots, as do the Gallagher brothers of the band Oasis. Gary Mounfield (Mani), bass player of the Stone Roses had an Irish mother. Manchester holds an annual Irish Festival each March, including one of the UK's largest St Patrick's Day parades.'
-- Wikipedia
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Post by Zos on Nov 30, 2019 12:38:00 GMT
The fact that such tedious discussions continue until today shows the man's importance. I just wish he had retired before the voice went to hell.
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Post by petrolino on Nov 30, 2019 13:10:32 GMT
The fact that such tedious discussions continue until today shows the man's importance. I just wish he had retired before the voice went to hell. I'm glad he's still working. I think he's recorded some of his most enjoyable solo work in the last 10 years and he sounds like he's having fun working with different musicians.
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Post by heeeeey on Nov 30, 2019 19:56:33 GMT
I used to read poetry all the time, and even wrote poetry when I was high school and in my 20s. So doing something automatically makes you an expert on something? Did you ever bother to crack a textbook on the subject? How is 'textbook' in any way insightful? It's like reading a 'textbook' about love. You don't 'learn' it from a textbook. You are either inspired to write it or you're not. I don't buy that 99 percent perspiration and one percent inspiration. Poets are inspired to write poetry, as are lyricists. I doubt you have ever written either.
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Post by heeeeey on Nov 30, 2019 19:58:29 GMT
No, I don't like his classical compositions. I find them quite boring. But I think I'd like to see that movie. Is that Hayley Mills?
Yes, she worked on several projects with co-star Hywel Bennett. McCartney was a good choice to score the movie because it's set in the industrial north-west of England. You still see pictures in the Liverpool Echo and Manchester Evening News of McCartney growing up, because he's helped with the area's regeneration. There's also a lot of Irish catholics in both cities at any given time.
'Liverpool traditionally is known as having the strongest Irish heritage of any British city, with the probable exception of Glasgow. The large number of Irish here originates from the city's port being close to Ireland, which made it in easy reach for all those escaping the potato famine during the 1800s. The Irish have played a major role in Liverpool's population and social fabric for a good part of the city's eight-hundred year history. A lot of Liverpudlians have some Irish ancestry, their Irish ancestors are most likely to have come to Liverpool in the 19th century. The Irish influence is heard in the local Liverpool dialect, often called Scouse, and seen in the faces and names of the populace. At least three of Liverpool's most famous citizens, The Beatles, had some Irish ancestry. George Harrison was partly of maternal Irish-Catholic derivation. Bandmate Sir Paul McCartney had one Irish grandfather and an Irish great-grandfather. John Lennon's father's family were the descendants of Irish migrants who came to Liverpool in the 19th century. Ringo Starr has one family bloodline tracing to County Mayo. Liverpool's Irish heritage is further highlighted by it being the only English city to have a significant Orange Order membership, it is also has a large catholic majority and is the most catholic city in the U.K. The Irish have also come to be as much of a staple of Merseyside in general, as of Liverpool itself. Many of the towns which surround the city in the county, such as Crosby, Widnes, Birkenhead, Newton-le-Willows, Wallasey, Bootle and Moreton, have many ethnic Irish people, and have also inherited the Scouse accent. Likewise, numerous overspill towns were built to house Liverpool's population in the years that followed, or took in a significant amount of Liverpool overspill, such as Huyton, Kirkby, Skelmersdale, Litherland, Winsford, Halewood, Runcorn and Warrington, and consequently these also have many people of Irish descent. Manchester has strong and long established Irish connections. It has been estimated that around 35% of Manchester's population has some Irish ancestry. As in Liverpool, city residents of Irish heritage have been influential in the music industry. All four members of the Smiths had Irish roots, as do the Gallagher brothers of the band Oasis. Gary Mounfield (Mani), bass player of the Stone Roses had an Irish mother. Manchester holds an annual Irish Festival each March, including one of the UK's largest St Patrick's Day parades.'
-- Wikipedia
Hayley was quite a natural actress, apart from inheriting her father's talent. She had something that her sister didn't have. Some kind of charisma maybe. But it certainly waned as she grew older.
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Post by petrolino on Dec 1, 2019 1:00:39 GMT
Yes, she worked on several projects with co-star Hywel Bennett. McCartney was a good choice to score the movie because it's set in the industrial north-west of England. You still see pictures in the Liverpool Echo and Manchester Evening News of McCartney growing up, because he's helped with the area's regeneration. There's also a lot of Irish catholics in both cities at any given time.
'Liverpool traditionally is known as having the strongest Irish heritage of any British city, with the probable exception of Glasgow. The large number of Irish here originates from the city's port being close to Ireland, which made it in easy reach for all those escaping the potato famine during the 1800s. The Irish have played a major role in Liverpool's population and social fabric for a good part of the city's eight-hundred year history. A lot of Liverpudlians have some Irish ancestry, their Irish ancestors are most likely to have come to Liverpool in the 19th century. The Irish influence is heard in the local Liverpool dialect, often called Scouse, and seen in the faces and names of the populace. At least three of Liverpool's most famous citizens, The Beatles, had some Irish ancestry. George Harrison was partly of maternal Irish-Catholic derivation. Bandmate Sir Paul McCartney had one Irish grandfather and an Irish great-grandfather. John Lennon's father's family were the descendants of Irish migrants who came to Liverpool in the 19th century. Ringo Starr has one family bloodline tracing to County Mayo. Liverpool's Irish heritage is further highlighted by it being the only English city to have a significant Orange Order membership, it is also has a large catholic majority and is the most catholic city in the U.K. The Irish have also come to be as much of a staple of Merseyside in general, as of Liverpool itself. Many of the towns which surround the city in the county, such as Crosby, Widnes, Birkenhead, Newton-le-Willows, Wallasey, Bootle and Moreton, have many ethnic Irish people, and have also inherited the Scouse accent. Likewise, numerous overspill towns were built to house Liverpool's population in the years that followed, or took in a significant amount of Liverpool overspill, such as Huyton, Kirkby, Skelmersdale, Litherland, Winsford, Halewood, Runcorn and Warrington, and consequently these also have many people of Irish descent. Manchester has strong and long established Irish connections. It has been estimated that around 35% of Manchester's population has some Irish ancestry. As in Liverpool, city residents of Irish heritage have been influential in the music industry. All four members of the Smiths had Irish roots, as do the Gallagher brothers of the band Oasis. Gary Mounfield (Mani), bass player of the Stone Roses had an Irish mother. Manchester holds an annual Irish Festival each March, including one of the UK's largest St Patrick's Day parades.'
-- Wikipedia
Hayley was quite a natural actress, apart from inheriting her father's talent. She had something that her sister didn't have. Some kind of charisma maybe. But it certainly waned as she grew older.
I don't know much about Hayley Mills and Juliet Mills but both were in some good movies. My sister likes some of Mills' Disney pictures but I think I've only seen one. I do think she made several good movies as an adult though, in drama, crime and horror.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Dec 1, 2019 12:38:04 GMT
So doing something automatically makes you an expert on something? Did you ever bother to crack a textbook on the subject? How is 'textbook' in any way insightful? LMAO So you don't need to read/learn about subject to be an expert in that subject? I think I now understand your entire worldview. It's the epitome of Dunning-Kruger.
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theshape25
Sophomore
@theshape25
Posts: 877
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Post by theshape25 on Dec 1, 2019 15:46:29 GMT
I think there are a lot of factors at play here. Both John and Paul's songwriting benefitted when they had their competitive thing going on, and also when they wrote together. They had one another to keep the other one in check. If they were going down a bad road in the song the other usually spoke up and said, "Wait a minute. This isn't very good," and the other would accept it. Towards the end of The Beatles and in their solo careers they didn't have this. I think each of them got a bit lazy as a result.
Another thing is while he was in The Beatles Paul didn't have to come up with as much material for an album. Him and John would pretty much split the number of songs, and then George would contribute one or two. So his lesser songs would be left off the album to be polished up later, or thrown away. As a solo artist he had to write the whole album, and some of those lesser songs were included.
Another thing is as you get older your writing changes. Look at John. I'm sure the songs that he wrote for his final album before his death would have been dismissed as trash by 1968 John.
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Post by heeeeey on Dec 1, 2019 15:55:44 GMT
How is 'textbook' in any way insightful? LMAO So you don't need to read/learn about subject to be an expert in that subject? I think I now understand your entire worldview. It's the epitome of Dunning-Kruger. I would wager that the MAJORITY of people who are touched by beautiful poetry or song lyrics did not have to read a textbook about it. You read textbooks about it and think you are an expert. Lol
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