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Post by sdm3 on Jan 14, 2020 3:07:36 GMT
I don't know. I agree that the Rooney Rule is treated like a joke, but the rule itself is a joke. Isn't it just as racist to demand that NFL teams hire people "of color"? Isn't it just as absurd to hire people "of color" purely to satisfy some criteria? Teams should hire the candidate they believe is best suited for the job, regardless of ethnicity. Whether teams are already doing that or not is impossible to determine. Yes, it would be great for the league to be more diverse; but any method of trying to enforce this just seems absurd to me.
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Post by tristramshandy on Jan 14, 2020 3:49:46 GMT
There should be practices to bring minorities into coaching. I give tons of credit to Bruce Arians whose coaching staff is filled with ex players. The Bucs have 11 African American coaches (including offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator, special teams coordinator, and assistant head coach) and two female coaches. Get minorities into coaching and they'll eventually get chances for head coaching.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 5:35:45 GMT
It's a slippery slope imo. If the rule isn't there how many guys even get a chance to interview? There is always the CHANCE one of these guys just wow the GM and get hired. I once heard a story told by an analyst that a former GM or Owner don't remember (wouldn't give the name) would hire his HC based on who he'd want to sit next to on a long flight back home. Wtf is that horseshit? How many of the Owners/GM's are old white dudes? All of em? How many of them would be looking to hire minorities based on this criteria? I know, it's a harsh extreme but that story always stuck in my head and made me wonder, what are Owner's/GM's actually looking for when they hire guys?
The Cowboys hiring made the Rooney Rule look like the farce it is. They brought in 2 candidates because the league told them they had to. Marvin Lewis and Mike McCarthy. Doesn't take rocket science to figure out how that was going to go. In the end, you just can't tell an owner/GM how to run their team. I've gotten this advice in terms of fantasy when another player makes a horribly one sided trade. Everybody is allowed to run their team how they see fit even if it's horribly. So while the Rooney Rule means well, these GM's and Owner's are allowed to run their teams horribly by possibly hiring less qualified candidates. I personally thought Robert Saleh was going to get more consideration this year but only saw his name mentioned like once. Felt the same last year in regards to Kris Richard but don't think he even got interviews.
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Post by Xeliou66 on Jan 14, 2020 6:13:12 GMT
I agree about the Rooney Rule being stupid, people should be hired based on merits and who is the most qualified, not to satisfy some criteria about hiring minorities.
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Post by tristramshandy on Jan 14, 2020 14:34:03 GMT
Only four quarterbacks had 30 or more touchdown passes this year: Jackson, Winston, Wilson, and Prescott.
Forty years ago, most owners would not have wanted to have a black quarterback. But the combine and tape can show abilities of a player better than anything for a potential coach.
Only having four minority coaches is an embarrassment. I'm for the Rooney Rule and the Fritz Pollard Alliance because these owners aren't going to interview minorities on their own. But, as was said above, in the end if owners want to own poorly, it is their team. Once again, I think the only thing that can really solve this is getting many more minorities in the lower level of coaching ranks so they can eventually filter upwards.
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Post by damngumby on Jan 14, 2020 17:22:41 GMT
Only having four minority coaches is an embarrassment. Why? 4 out of 32 is 12.5%. Pretty much in line with the general population %. Should the NFL install some sort of "affirmative action" policy to correct for the disporpotionate number of minority players?
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Post by tristramshandy on Jan 14, 2020 18:52:06 GMT
Only having four minority coaches is an embarrassment. Why? 4 out of 32 is 12.5%. Pretty much in line with the general population %. Should the NFL install some sort of "affirmative action" policy to correct for the disporpotionate number of minority players? If your league is 72% minority, then, yes, I think the number of coaches should be more than 12.5%. If you care so much about general population percentages, I'm sure you're for getting the number of female CEOs to above 5% for Fortune 500 companies - - seems fair that they would be represented in numbers commensurate with their population.
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SportsFan19
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Post by SportsFan19 on Jan 14, 2020 19:50:05 GMT
For those of you who are against the rule, what can you propose that's better?
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Post by hoskotafe3 on Jan 14, 2020 21:57:08 GMT
The weird thing is you don't have to go back that far to find that being black is no impediment to being a good coach. A black coach lifted the Lombardi trophy twice in 4 years in the late 00s. A black coach had consistent regular season success with the Bengals. THE BENGALS. There's no logical reason, based on relatively recent history, why you would rule out a black man to coach your team successfully.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Jan 14, 2020 22:29:15 GMT
The weird thing is you don't have to go back that far to find that being black is no impediment to being a good coach. A black coach lifted the Lombardi trophy twice in 4 years in the late 00s. A black coach had consistent regular season success with the Bengals. THE BENGALS. There's no logical reason, based on relatively recent history, why you would rule out a black man to coach your team successfully. I don't think anyone has ruled out hiring a black coach. If there were top candidates that were black they'd get their interviews and be considered. The rule forces teams to interview 'minority candidates' and if there was to be any success with it, it would be in getting teams to look around more creatively to different types of candidates instead of the same handful of names. But if the black assistants and coordinators in the league had huge success in a given year on their teams they'd immediately get looks from the teams that need coaches.... instead of Marvin Lewis being the token interview for a couple of teams, who by the way is not a great example of a successful coach.
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Post by damngumby on Jan 14, 2020 22:29:59 GMT
Should the NFL install some sort of "affirmative action" policy to correct for the disporpotionate number of minority players? If your league is 72% minority, then, yes Is that what you meant to say?
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Jan 14, 2020 23:13:07 GMT
The weird thing is you don't have to go back that far to find that being black is no impediment to being a good coach. A black coach lifted the Lombardi trophy twice in 4 years in the late 00s. A black coach had consistent regular season success with the Bengals. THE BENGALS. There's no logical reason, based on relatively recent history, why you would rule out a black man to coach your team successfully. I don't think anyone has ruled out hiring a black coach. If there were top candidates that were black they'd get their interviews and be considered. The rule forces teams to interview 'minority candidates' and if there was to be any success with it, it would be in getting teams to look around more creatively to different types of candidates instead of the same handful of names. But if the black assistants and coordinators in the league had huge success in a given year on their teams they'd immediately get looks from the teams that need coaches.... instead of Marvin Lewis being the token interview for a couple of teams, who by the way is not a great example of a successful coach. Eric Bienemy (spelling?) didn’t get a sniff despite a) having what should be considered a successful year, and b) the endorsement of his head coach who has a proven track record of his assistants becoming successful head coaches. Was he penalized for being too successful, meaning the Chiefs are still in the playoffs? Maybe. But the Browns waited for Stefanski. What’s 2 or 3 more weeks in the grand scheme?
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Post by tristramshandy on Jan 14, 2020 23:22:05 GMT
The weird thing is you don't have to go back that far to find that being black is no impediment to being a good coach. A black coach lifted the Lombardi trophy twice in 4 years in the late 00s. A black coach had consistent regular season success with the Bengals. THE BENGALS. There's no logical reason, based on relatively recent history, why you would rule out a black man to coach your team successfully. I don't think anyone has ruled out hiring a black coach. If there were top candidates that were black they'd get their interviews and be considered. The rule forces teams to interview 'minority candidates' and if there was to be any success with it, it would be in getting teams to look around more creatively to different types of candidates instead of the same handful of names. But if the black assistants and coordinators in the league had huge success in a given year on their teams they'd immediately get looks from the teams that need coaches.... instead of Marvin Lewis being the token interview for a couple of teams, who by the way is not a great example of a successful coach. Then Eric Bieniemy should have been interviewed more often considering how good the Chiefs offense is.
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Post by tristramshandy on Jan 14, 2020 23:26:48 GMT
If your league is 72% minority, then, yes Is that what you meant to say? Yes. I'm not saying that 72% of head coaches should be minorities, but if you're not at, say, 25%, then there is a problem.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Jan 14, 2020 23:40:09 GMT
I don't think anyone has ruled out hiring a black coach. If there were top candidates that were black they'd get their interviews and be considered. The rule forces teams to interview 'minority candidates' and if there was to be any success with it, it would be in getting teams to look around more creatively to different types of candidates instead of the same handful of names. But if the black assistants and coordinators in the league had huge success in a given year on their teams they'd immediately get looks from the teams that need coaches.... instead of Marvin Lewis being the token interview for a couple of teams, who by the way is not a great example of a successful coach. Eric Bienemy (spelling?) didn’t get a sniff despite a) having what should be considered a successful year, and b) the endorsement of his head coach who has a proven track record of his assistants becoming successful head coaches. Was he penalized for being too successful, meaning the Chiefs are still in the playoffs? Maybe. But the Browns waited for Stefanski. What’s 2 or 3 more weeks in the grand scheme? I know the giants requested permission to interview him. I'm not sure they were granted permission until after the playoffs, and then after the Panthers stole their first choice they were in a hurry to hire someone quickly, so they made what seems like a hasty decision before seriously considering him. I thought other teams were looking at him as well, but I could be mistaken. Either way, I'd guess you'll see him as a leading candidate next year for whoever needs a coach, and there's still a chance another coach leaves or gets fired this off season. Perry Fewell is another guy I think will get some chances. He was a quality coordinator with the Giants and Panthers and sort of held the Panthers together as interim head coach. He wasn't in a great situation, but he did an admirable job, and while he wasn't hired as head coach he now has legit head coaching experience. He should be on any short list of 'minority' coaches... ...not because he's black, but because I think he can be a good coach.
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Jan 14, 2020 23:48:18 GMT
Eric Bienemy (spelling?) didn’t get a sniff despite a) having what should be considered a successful year, and b) the endorsement of his head coach who has a proven track record of his assistants becoming successful head coaches. Was he penalized for being too successful, meaning the Chiefs are still in the playoffs? Maybe. But the Browns waited for Stefanski. What’s 2 or 3 more weeks in the grand scheme? I know the giants requested permission to interview him. I'm not sure they were granted permission until after the playoffs, and then after the Panthers stole their first choice they were in a hurry to hire someone quickly, so they made what seems like a hasty decision before seriously considering him. I thought other teams were looking at him as well, but I could be mistaken. Either way, I'd guess you'll see him as a leading candidate next year for whoever needs a coach, and there's still a chance another coach leaves or gets fired this off season. Perry Fewell is another guy I think will get some chances. He was a quality coordinator with the Giants and Panthers and sort of held the Panthers together as interim head coach. He wasn't in a great situation, but he did an admirable job, and while he wasn't hired as head coach he now has legit head coaching experience. He should be on any short list of 'minority' coaches... ...not because he's black, but because I think he can be a good coach. I don’t know the first thing about Joe Judge, the Giants hiring him was the first I ever heard his name. He could be Vince Lombardi, he could be Hue Jackson, but if they’re taking a chance on this guy why not just take a chance on some who is a good OC already? If they waited it sound like they could have had him since all the other positions got filled.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Jan 15, 2020 0:07:55 GMT
I know the giants requested permission to interview him. I'm not sure they were granted permission until after the playoffs, and then after the Panthers stole their first choice they were in a hurry to hire someone quickly, so they made what seems like a hasty decision before seriously considering him. I thought other teams were looking at him as well, but I could be mistaken. Either way, I'd guess you'll see him as a leading candidate next year for whoever needs a coach, and there's still a chance another coach leaves or gets fired this off season. Perry Fewell is another guy I think will get some chances. He was a quality coordinator with the Giants and Panthers and sort of held the Panthers together as interim head coach. He wasn't in a great situation, but he did an admirable job, and while he wasn't hired as head coach he now has legit head coaching experience. He should be on any short list of 'minority' coaches... ...not because he's black, but because I think he can be a good coach. I don’t know the first thing about Joe Judge, the Giants hiring him was the first I ever heard his name. He could be Vince Lombardi, he could be Hue Jackson, but if they’re taking a chance on this guy why not just take a chance on some who is a good OC already? If they waited it sound like they could have had him since all the other positions got filled. Yeah, I know nothing about Joe Judge either. It's weird, but the guy must be great in an interview. He comes recommended by Belichick and Saban, both of whom he worked for as a coordinator.. but bit offensive or defensive... just special teams. Seems weird to me too. I certainly hope it works out, but I would have been much more excited by Eric Bieniemy (even though I really wanted the chiefs DC, coach Spags, back with the Giants). Plus, if it ever went bad and he had to get fired, the NY Post headline writes itself; Eric The Enemy!
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Post by sdm3 on Jan 15, 2020 0:29:47 GMT
I don’t know the first thing about Joe Judge, the Giants hiring him was the first I ever heard his name. He could be Vince Lombardi, he could be Hue Jackson, but if they’re taking a chance on this guy why not just take a chance on some who is a good OC already? If they waited it sound like they could have had him since all the other positions got filled. Yeah, I know nothing about Joe Judge either. It's weird, but the guy must be great in an interview. Did you see his press conference? He came off pretty great!
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Post by masterofallgoons on Jan 15, 2020 0:37:42 GMT
Yeah, I know nothing about Joe Judge either. It's weird, but the guy must be great in an interview. Did you see his press conference? He came off pretty great! I didn't... somehow I think you might be joking, but I hope you're right.
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Post by sdm3 on Jan 15, 2020 0:44:48 GMT
Did you see his press conference? He came off pretty great! I didn't... somehow I think you might be joking, but I hope you're right. I’m actually serious. It was the opposite of Adam Gase’s presser.
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