|
Post by DC-Fan on May 10, 2017 17:36:16 GMT
MCU fans claim that's not true, but it's 100% true. Without Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker is just a farmboy and not a Jedi Knight who destroyed the Death Star and help defeat the Galactic Empire.
It's like Ben Affleck said in Boiler Room: "Whoever who says 'Money isn't everything' doesn't have any." They don't have money so they say "Money isn't everything" in order to make themselves feel better about themselves. But if they were part of that 1% that was rich, they wouldn't say "Money isn't everything", they would say "Money is the most important thing".
Likewise with MCU and MCU fans. The only reason that MCU and MCU fans say that it's not true that a good hero needs a good villain to challenge them and push them to the limit is because they know MCU doesn't have any good villains. But if MCU had access to the X-Men's villains or the Fantastic Four's villains, then MCU and the MCU fans would be saying that it's true that a good hero needs a good villain and fortunately there are some good X-Men villains and Fantastic Four villains.
But since MCU doesn't have access to those good villains and doesn't have any good villains left, that's why MCU and MCU fans say that it isn't true to make themselves feel better. But it's 100% true. A hero isn't great if he's not challenged or pushed to the limit by a great adversary. If all Perseus had to do was outsmart 3 blind witches and defeat Calibos, then he wouldn't be a great hero. It's defeating Medusa and the Kraken that made Perseus a great hero.
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on May 11, 2017 0:43:39 GMT
And a villain isn't great without a great hero, but WB usually tends to forget with when they make DC superhero movies, directly or indirectly, but to be fair the villains usually are the most memorable for better or for worse. There are exceptions though, like Batman Begins and the first Superman movie( And maybe the second), but then there's these to take into consideration...
Batman(1989) - Jack Nicholson's Joker is much more fleshed out than the titular character, and Jack Nicholson just eats away the scenery like a shark he's even got Prince for additional support.
Batman Returns - Batman doesn't do much here, he has even less of an arc(if one at all) than he did in the first outing, its mostly Catwoman and The Penguin's show, and a lot of people look at it that way and both renditions of the characters sparks some debate on the creative liberties taken or how well or bad they executed though most agree both were "interesting" to say the least. Oh, and there's Christopher Walken of course.
Batman Forever - More development the caped crusader, but most people remember Jim Carrey's Riddler and Tommy Lee Jones' over the top portrayal of Two-Face.
Batman & Robin - Arnold's Mr. Freeze and Uma Thurman's Poison Ivy, for all their ridiculousness and their cringe inducing dialogue, leave a stronger impression than the two titular characters and Alicia Silverstone's Batgirl.
Steel - Well Shaq can't act, so Judd Nelson easily takes the show over, probably not as much as the guy who shouts "No!" before being blown up by a grenade towards the end, also a bad guy.
Catwoman - ...Actually, I don't think anybody finds this movie to be memorable for ANY factor going into it except that stupid costume Halle Berry wore which they're all trying to forget.
Superman Returns - Most people only really remember Kevin Spacey as Lex Luthor and his shouting of the word "WRONG!"
The Dark Knight - Heath Ledger's Joker makes the movie, and takes every scene he's in by force with ease. By far the most memorable character out of the whole film, and just about everybody's favorite scenes involve him. Even the minority of people who didn't love the movie thought The Joker was great and mesmerizing to watch, and usually skip to his scenes over everything else(especially Batman's scenes because his voice became ridiculed in an instant).
The Dark Knight Rises - Most people talk about Tom Hardy's Bane and to an extent Anne Hathaway's Catwoman, Batman less so and usually debate sparks mostly on the creative liberties that were taken to get him to end his journey and hang up the cape and cowl.
Man of Steel - Even with less screen time than Supes, Michael Shannon's General Zod is more rounded as a character than the man of steel, and his right hand lady Faora instantly steals the show right from under Superman's cape and makes an even more interesting female character than either Lois Lane, Martha Kent, or Lara Lor-Van.
Batman v Superman - Sadly, Jesse Eisenberg's cooky version of Lex Luthor leaves more impact than Superman does, fortunately Ben Affleck's Batman outshines him, though for most of the movie its set up that he's about to do something completely out of character( killing the man of steel) and its only till the infamous "Martha!" scene that he realizes he's acting like the bad guy there.
Suicide Squad - A movie largely based around bad guys from the DC universe.
Wonder Woman - Not out yet, but given that Ares is played by David Thewlis he'll likely steal the show in whatever amount of screen time he has. Just saying.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 7:32:32 GMT
The Comic Book series that have the best villains are
Hack/Slash Batman Batgirl Nightwing Batwoman Superman Supergirl (Linda and Kara. Mostly Linda) Birds of Prey Spider-Man Spider Woman Witchblade X Men Green Lantern The Fantastic Four Spawn Tarot Witch of the Black Rose Red Sonja Justice Society of America Teen Titans The Mask Faust Daredevil Justice League Zatanna
|
|
|
Post by HorrorMetal on May 18, 2018 16:35:11 GMT
The MCU does, indeed, have really weak villains with the exception of Loki, Thanos, and Vulture. The crappy villains really drag the movies down, especially with all three Iron Man films. Say what you will about the DCEU, but I think overall they handle their villains a lot better. I didn't really care for Leto's Joker or Eisenberg's Lex (which is a shame because those two characters are easily the most iconic foes from the DC Universe) but I think they both have potential and will undoubtedly be better handled in future films. Ares in Wonder Woman, I feel was sort of miscast, but I think the point was that they wanted someone unassuming and unexpected to actually be the god of war in disguise.
Steppenwolf from the Justice League movie wasn't that great either, but I feel like that movie was more about the heroes and the filmmakers didn't want a truly awesome villain to take away the spotlight from them, which happens very often in superhero flicks. I love both franchises, by the way, but I find it odd when one of the main criticisms from MCU fans is that Justice League had a weak villain when most MCU villains have been crap so far. Once they're able to use X-Men and Fantastic Four villains, I'm sure it will get a lot better as will the inclusion of more Spider-Man foes.
|
|
|
Post by RedDeadFallout on May 18, 2018 16:55:31 GMT
Good villains are rare in any comic book movie universe.
|
|
|
Post by hobowar on May 18, 2018 20:04:21 GMT
Ultron, Zemo, Killmonger, Ego and Thanos slay all the DC movie villains quite comfortably in my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by ThatGuy on May 18, 2018 23:32:48 GMT
Ultron, Zemo, Killmonger, Ego and Thanos slay all the DC movie villains quite comfortably in my opinion. Vulture, also.
|
|
|
Post by DC-Fan on May 19, 2018 3:12:24 GMT
Ultron, Zemo, Killmonger, Ego and Thanos slay all the DC movie villains quite comfortably in my opinion. Ultron, Zemo, Killmonger, and Ego are all awful and lame villains. Thanos is the best villain in MCU but Thanos isn't all that great a villain either.
|
|
|
Post by hobowar on May 19, 2018 9:37:28 GMT
Ultron, Zemo, Killmonger, Ego and Thanos slay all the DC movie villains quite comfortably in my opinion. Ultron, Zemo, Killmonger, and Ego are all awful and lame villains. Thanos is the best villain in MCU but Thanos isn't all that great a villain either. Shut up, bitch.
|
|
|
Post by scabab on May 19, 2018 9:43:44 GMT
Well it's not like the DCEU has much in the way of good villains either. Zod was pretty good and that's about it.
That hasn't stopped Wonder Woman from being a great character. She's probably a better character than Superman even though her villain is worse.
In Justice League, Flash was a good character and Aquaman wasn't. That had nothing to do with the villain.
Between Loki and Hela, Thor has had better villains than Iron Man but he's not a better character.
Everyone likes Christopher Reeves and his villains weren't that good overall. Same with Hugh Jackman as Wolverine he was always popular but the villains in his individual movies weren't that good either.
|
|
|
Post by ThatGuy on May 19, 2018 17:17:21 GMT
Well it's not like the DCEU has much in the way of good villains either. Zod was pretty good and that's about it. That hasn't stopped Wonder Woman from being a great character. She's probably a better character than Superman even though her villain is worse. In Justice League, Flash was a good character and Aquaman wasn't. That had nothing to do with the villain. Between Loki and Hela, Thor has had better villains than Iron Man but he's not a better character. Everyone likes Christopher Reeves and his villains weren't that good overall. Same with Hugh Jackman as Wolverine he was always popular but the villains in his individual movies weren't that good either. It comes down to having to bring someone down to boost another up. You can't make the hero look good or the villain doesn't seem so powerful. You also can't give the villain so much or it becomes their movie instead of belonging to the title character(s).
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on May 20, 2018 0:10:36 GMT
Ultron, Zemo, Killmonger, Ego and Thanos slay all the DC movie villains quite comfortably in my opinion. Ultron, Zemo, Killmonger, and Ego are all awful and lame villains. Thanos is the best villain in MCU but Thanos isn't all that great a villain either. So what qualifies a villain to be great? Compare and contrast.
|
|
|
Post by Grabthar's Hammer on May 24, 2018 7:39:41 GMT
Dumb MCU fans claim that's not true, but it's 100% true. Without Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker is just a farmboy and not a Jedi Knight who destroyed the Death Star and help defeat the Galactic Empire. It's like Ben Affleck said in Boiler Room: "Whoever who says 'Money isn't everything' doesn't have any." They don't have money so they say "Money isn't everything" in order to make themselves feel better about themselves. But if they were part of that 1% that was rich, they wouldn't say "Money isn't everything", they would say "Money is the most important thing". Likewise with MCU and the dumb MCU fans. The only reason that MCU and dumb MCU fans say that it's not true that a good hero needs a good villain to challenge them and push them to the limit is because they know MCU doesn't have any good villains. But if MCU had access to the X-Men's villains or the Fantastic Four's villains, then MCU and the MCU fans would be saying that it's true that a good hero needs a good villain and fortunately there are some good X-Men villains and Fantastic Four villains. But since MCU doesn't have access to those good villains and doesn't have any good villains left, that's why MCU and the dumb MCU fans say that it isn't true to make themselves feel better. But it's 100% true. A hero isn't great if he's not challenged or pushed to the limit by a great adversary. If all Perseus had to do was outsmart 3 blind witches and defeat Calibos, then he wouldn't be a great hero. It's defeating Medusa and the Kraken that made Perseus a great hero. The MCU hasn't had the best villains. That's basically my only gripe. I do love the MCU though and I love the heroes so much. I think Thanos was pretty great. I also enjoyed Abomination, as in Tim Roth's character motivations, even though the The Incredible Hulk film wasn't strong. I do enjoy other MCU villains like Loki, Hela, Vulture, Alexander Pierce, Killmonger, Kingpin, and Purple Man, but we definitely need our Joker.
|
|
|
Post by DSDSquared on May 24, 2018 11:55:06 GMT
Someone please try to explain why this keeps happening. The DCEU has terrible villains. The MCU destroys the DCEU in the villain department and it is really not even close. The DCEU has Zod and........................oh, that's it. The MCU has Ultron, Loki, Vulture, Hela, Thanos, etc. This is not even a contest.
|
|
|
Post by Tristan's Journal on May 24, 2018 11:59:19 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Tristan's Journal on May 24, 2018 12:08:39 GMT
Someone please try to explain why this keeps happening. The DCEU has terrible villains. The MCU destroys the DCEU in the villain department and it is really not even close. The DCEU has Zod and........................oh, that's it. The MCU has Ultron, Loki, Vulture, Hela, Thanos, etc. This is not even a contest. I'll try it, slowly: The OP is not about DCEU (5 films) vs MCU (19 films) or DC vs Marvel in general.
Btw all the MCU villains are weak and generic, even MCU-Loki who is an embarrassing Young Adult downgrade from the mythological character who destroyed the gods in Ragnarök (not talking about Fragglerock). Only good Marvel villain is Fox-Men Magneto, the rest get destroyed by DC rogues and others.
But let the facts speak: www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-best-movie-villains-of-all-time
|
|
|
Post by Rey Kahuka on May 24, 2018 12:30:52 GMT
Someone please try to explain why this keeps happening. The DCEU has terrible villains. The MCU destroys the DCEU in the villain department and it is really not even close. The DCEU has Zod and........................oh, that's it. The MCU has Ultron, Loki, Vulture, Hela, Thanos, etc. This is not even a contest. I'll try it, slowly: The OP is not about DCEU (5 films) vs MCU (19 films) or DC vs Marvel in general.
Btw all the MCU villains are weak and generic, even MCU-Loki who is an embarrassing Young Adult downgrade from the mythological character who destroyed the gods in Ragnarök (not talking about Fragglerock). Only good Marvel villain is Fox-Men Magneto, the rest get destroyed by DC rogues and others.
But let the facts speak: www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-best-movie-villains-of-all-time
Interesting list, though I have to question the placement of Darth Maul and the existence at all of Count Dooku on any list of great villains. Can't say the villains from Harry Potter, Pirates of the Caribbean or Hunger Games do anything for me, but that's probably due to my disinterest in the source material.
|
|
|
Post by DSDSquared on May 24, 2018 13:14:12 GMT
Someone please try to explain why this keeps happening. The DCEU has terrible villains. The MCU destroys the DCEU in the villain department and it is really not even close. The DCEU has Zod and........................oh, that's it. The MCU has Ultron, Loki, Vulture, Hela, Thanos, etc. This is not even a contest. I'll try it, slowly: The OP is not about DCEU (5 films) vs MCU (19 films) or DC vs Marvel in general.
Btw all the MCU villains are weak and generic, even MCU-Loki who is an embarrassing Young Adult downgrade from the mythological character who destroyed the gods in Ragnarök (not talking about Fragglerock). Only good Marvel villain is Fox-Men Magneto, the rest get destroyed by DC rogues and others.
But let the facts speak: www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-best-movie-villains-of-all-time
Are you serious? I know you are not the brightest poster, but that is exactly what the OP is about. There seems to be some misconception that the MCU has a villain problem when it definitely does not. Heck, Thanos has a minion in Infinity War better than any DCEU villain.
|
|
|
Post by Tristan's Journal on May 24, 2018 13:59:34 GMT
I'll try it, slowly: The OP is not about DCEU (5 films) vs MCU (19 films) or DC vs Marvel in general.
Btw all the MCU villains are weak and generic, even MCU-Loki who is an embarrassing Young Adult downgrade from the mythological character who destroyed the gods in Ragnarök (not talking about Fragglerock). Only good Marvel villain is Fox-Men Magneto, the rest get destroyed by DC rogues and others.
But let the facts speak: www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-best-movie-villains-of-all-time
Interesting list, though I have to question the placement of Darth Maul and the existence at all of Count Dooku on any list of great villains. Can't say the villains from Harry Potter, Pirates of the Caribbean or Hunger Games do anything for me, but that's probably due to my disinterest in the source material. Ranker is the best. Darth Maul is so badass he is good again, from a certain point of view. I predict he shall rise soon on the silver screen and in villain ratings again.
|
|
NormanClature
Junior Member
"Anyone would think tin-pot-dictatorship is a bad thing???!?"
@armyofone
Posts: 2,108
Likes: 1,196
|
Post by NormanClature on May 24, 2018 14:09:53 GMT
Well it's not like the DCEU has much in the way of good villains either. Zod was pretty good and that's about it. That hasn't stopped Wonder Woman from being a great character. She's probably a better character than Superman even though her villain is worse. In Justice League, Flash was a good character and Aquaman wasn't. That had nothing to do with the villain. Between Loki and Hela, Thor has had better villains than Iron Man but he's not a better character. Everyone likes Christopher Reeves and his villains weren't that good overall. Same with Hugh Jackman as Wolverine he was always popular but the villains in his individual movies weren't that good either. Imagine I had written the OP and referred to DC fans as "dumb." How many nanoseconds would it have taken for you to either "correct" my syntax or remove the post entirely? The under/over is 10 nanoseconds and I am buying the under.
|
|