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Post by Skaathar on Jun 3, 2018 21:59:02 GMT
MCU now has Thanos, Ebony Maw, Loki, Hela, Vulture, Zemo, Killmonger, Winter Soldier, Klaue and Ego. Thanos is the best MCU villain, but Thanos still isn't a great villain. Ebony Maw, Loki, Hela, Vulture, Zemo, Killmonger, Winter Soldier, Klaue and Ego are all lame villains. That's not even including decent villains like Pierce and Ironmonger. Pierce and Ironmonger are lame villians. In your own biased opinion maybe. Majority of both critics and audiences liked these villains and they're still far better than the average DC villain.
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Post by Nalkarj on Jun 12, 2018 12:01:02 GMT
MCU now has Thanos, Ebony Maw, Loki, Hela, Vulture, Zemo, Killmonger, Winter Soldier, Klaue and Ego. Thanos is the best MCU villain, but Thanos still isn't a great villain. Ebony Maw, Loki, Hela, Vulture, Zemo, Killmonger, Winter Soldier, Klaue and Ego are all lame villains. That's not even including decent villains like Pierce and Ironmonger. Pierce and Ironmonger are lame villians. I haven’t seen Infinity War and am not sure when I’ll get around to it, but I quite liked Loki, the Vulture, Alexander Pierce, and Obadiah Stane. To be perfectly frank, the Loki characterization isn’t all that great—it’s pretty much all over the place—but Hiddleston plays the only decently-written trickster role very well. I just wish he were given more to do in that role (perhaps he’s better in Ragnarok?). The Vulture, Pierce, and Stane were all played by excellent actors; Keaton made his villain sympathetic (and the suspense scene in the car is just grand), and Redford really put his all into the Pierce role (making the wise decision to underplay it—his quietly, unfeelingly shooting the housekeeper is one of the best scenes in the movie, all the more powerful because it’s the always-likeable Robert Redford doing it). The Bridges role is closest to the Redford. All very good.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2018 8:26:53 GMT
Thanos is the best MCU villain, but Thanos still isn't a great villain. Ebony Maw, Loki, Hela, Vulture, Zemo, Killmonger, Winter Soldier, Klaue and Ego are all lame villains. Pierce and Ironmonger are lame villians. In your own biased opinion maybe. Majority of both critics and audiences liked these villains and they're still far better than the average DC villain. No. They don’t. The majority of people I know that like MCU movies admit their villains haven’t been great and some of them used to point to the main problem being the best villains in Marvel were the Spider-Man, X Men and Fantastic Four villains but when the MCU got Spider-Man they took Shocker and made him into some boring two dimensional henchmen. ‘Spider-Man: Homecoming’s’ depiction of Shocker was one of the main reasons I disliked the movie and what happened to the Shocker with the yellow costume that gave him special abilities? Shocker had increased speed, strength, intensity and hearing, he could send out shockwaves and use air blasts to launch himself into the sky when he was on the run. By taking away the yellow costume and the extra abilities the writers essentially did with fans on here have been complaining about with the ‘X Men’ Fox movies not being true to the comic books making a more grounded realistic version of the character.
That is not to say that the DCEU have been better – a lot of the DCEU’s versions of villains so far have been pretty bad too. Their versions of Lex and the Joker have been awful so far and the writers of ‘Suicide Squad’ took a half human/ half crocodile that was the perfect monster for a Horror movie and turned him into a Goomba from the ‘Super Mario Bros’ film. Killer Croc should have looked scary, he should have been 13 foot tall, had massive arms, and huge teeth in his mouth and he should have eaten people and torn them into shreds but we got something that looks like it came from a children's movie same with Doomsday that looked more like a big Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle than Doomsday and rather than have him as his own character they made him into some Frankenstein like character that was created by Lex. Smallville's version of Doomsday looked HEAPS better when they had the monster form on screen and they had a much smaller budget than these movies did and had to have him in a human form most of the time 'cause they couldn't afford to have him in the real Doomsday form but regardless of Davis Bloome being a weak character the monster form looked like Doomsday.
As far as the average DC villain in the comic books they leave all of the DCEU and MCU villains for dead. The ‘Arkham’ games had far better versions of villains than any of the movies have had and they didn’t hold back with their villains and try to ground them. Heck, some of the animated movies and TV shows have been better at handling villains too and when it comes down to it I don't think this is a DC or Marvel problem - the problem is Hollywood in general. Hollywood can't come up with good memorable villains anymore. They don't go far enough with them and make them evil, sadistic or psychotic enough. They ground them too much and make them into sympathetic characters which makes them far less realistic. Just look at the Horror genre. There haven't been any villains in the past 20 years that have been as popualr as Freddy Kreuger, Jason Vorhees, Michael Myers, Chucky or Leatherface or even lesser knowns like Pinhead, The Tall Man, Isaac or Candy Man 'cause most of them have been boring and forgettable. You would think this wouldn't be a problem in the comic book/ superhero genre that is known for having a lot of great and popular villains in the COMIC BOOKS but the movies and TV shows often give us awful adaptions of them that aren't anything like they are in the comic books.
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palerider
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Post by palerider on Jun 19, 2018 19:32:59 GMT
In your own biased opinion maybe. Majority of both critics and audiences liked these villains and they're still far better than the average DC villain.
As far as the average DC villain in the comic books they leave all of the DCEU and MCU villains for dead. Well, even in the comics DC has always given more focus to its villains than its heroes.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jun 19, 2018 23:43:51 GMT
As far as the average DC villain in the comic books they leave all of the DCEU and MCU villains for dead. Well, even in the comics DC has always given more focus to its villains than its heroes. This is true. On the other side, Marvel is more about the heroes. That's why it's harder to name a lot of the villains for most heroes unless they are Spider-man or X-men. And most of their villains are event villains, known for a big story, or flip flop between hero and villain at some point. For most of the MCU heroes you'd mostly only be able to name their main villain in the comic.
But then again... The only big villains in DC are the ones known from Batman and Superman (mostly Batman) because of their many shows, movies and animated series. Wonder Woman had a show, but has any of her comic villains shown up there? People only know of characters like Circe, Cheetah and some of the gods. The big ones for Superman are Luthor, Zod, ----------> Doomsday, Bizarro, Metallo, Brainiac, Mxyzptlk. I didn't even know that Wonder Woman had a Doomsday-type villain. Most other heroes you only know their "Luthor" villain (Reverse Flash, Sinestro, Deathstroke, Merlon, etc.)
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Jun 20, 2018 0:31:49 GMT
I disagree. A hero isn't great without a catchy theme song! youtu.be/oPr8ZqRHTQoSam Raimi Spider-Man > X-Men movies,MCU and DCEU!
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Post by ThatGuy on Jun 20, 2018 1:57:47 GMT
I disagree. A hero isn't great without a catchy theme song! youtu.be/oPr8ZqRHTQoSam Raimi Spider-Man > X-Men movies,MCU and DCEU! Is Raimi Spider-man's theme song catchy? I'd say, from that list, the catchy ones would be Avengers and Wonder Woman.
And I raise your Spider-man song with this one:
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Post by summers8 on Jun 20, 2018 5:33:36 GMT
Well, even in the comics DC has always given more focus to its villains than its heroes. This is true. On the other side, Marvel is more about the heroes. That's why it's harder to name a lot of the villains for most heroes unless they are Spider-man or X-men. And most of their villains are event villains, known for a big story, or flip flop between hero and villain at some point. For most of the MCU heroes you'd mostly only be able to name their main villain in the comic.
But then again... The only big villains in DC are the ones known from Batman and Superman (mostly Batman) because of their many shows, movies and animated series. Wonder Woman had a show, but has any of her comic villains shown up there? People only know of characters like Circe, Cheetah and some of the gods. The big ones for Superman are Luthor, Zod, ----------> Doomsday, Bizarro, Metallo, Brainiac, Mxyzptlk. I didn't even know that Wonder Woman had a Doomsday-type villain. Most other heroes you only know their "Luthor" villain (Reverse Flash, Sinestro, Deathstroke, Merlon, etc.) Marvel is about heroes? mcu fans. please stop embarrassing real comics marvel fans. marvel is about heroes and villains. watch shows like XMEN TAS or SPIDERMAN TAS for prove. disney mcu is about heroes because they did not want good villains on purpose as good villains could end up making their movies darker and heavier.
funny thing with marvel comics, they had two of the best rogues gallery in comics outside of batman with spiderman and xmen villains but even iron man villains still had some cult fans, this is why they all got mad after the mandarin was a joke, when he should have been a real villain terrorist.
but then again, MCU fans like you got so desperate you deluded yourselves into thinking killmonger who is actually a one dimensional villain with the angry black man stereotype was better than magneto, who is not even a pure villain. in all fairness, this lie was actually not that bad, it would have been worse to compare Loltron in age of ultron to Sentinels in DOFP. LMAO.
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Post by summers8 on Jun 20, 2018 5:38:23 GMT
Funny thing you said this OP. Nolan said the same two months earlier that his movies were about the villains more.
Singer had the same thing in his head, it was the reason he had an obsession with magneto but thank god other characters like Xavier and Wolverine were there to balance magneto out.
every great movie or story needs great villains, that is just excellent writing fact. true comic fans knows this.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jun 20, 2018 9:53:31 GMT
This is true. On the other side, Marvel is more about the heroes. That's why it's harder to name a lot of the villains for most heroes unless they are Spider-man or X-men. And most of their villains are event villains, known for a big story, or flip flop between hero and villain at some point. For most of the MCU heroes you'd mostly only be able to name their main villain in the comic.
But then again... The only big villains in DC are the ones known from Batman and Superman (mostly Batman) because of their many shows, movies and animated series. Wonder Woman had a show, but has any of her comic villains shown up there? People only know of characters like Circe, Cheetah and some of the gods. The big ones for Superman are Luthor, Zod, ----------> Doomsday, Bizarro, Metallo, Brainiac, Mxyzptlk. I didn't even know that Wonder Woman had a Doomsday-type villain. Most other heroes you only know their "Luthor" villain (Reverse Flash, Sinestro, Deathstroke, Merlon, etc.) Marvel is about heroes? mcu fans. please stop embarrassing real comics marvel fans. marvel is about heroes and villains. watch shows like XMEN TAS or SPIDERMAN TAS for prove. disney mcu is about heroes because they did not want good villains on purpose as good villains could end up making their movies darker and heavier.
funny thing with marvel comics, they had two of the best rogues gallery in comics outside of batman with spiderman and xmen villains but even iron man villains still had some cult fans, this is why they all got mad after the mandarin was a joke, when he should have been a real villain terrorist.
but then again, MCU fans like you got so desperate you deluded yourselves into thinking killmonger who is actually a one dimensional villain with the angry black man stereotype was better than magneto, who is not even a pure villain. in all fairness, this lie was actually not that bad, it would have been worse to compare Loltron in age of ultron to Sentinels in DOFP. LMAO.
Wow. Way to turn this to being about X-men versus the MCU. Why do you think I mentioned animated series? Without those and live action series the villains wouldn't be as popular. Also variety. And also marketability. Do you think casual Fan's know who Apocalypse and Vulture were before the recent movies? We know them because we follow them and they are popular in our circles. Look at Mystique and Juggernaut. Juggernaut shouldn't be as popular as he is, but he has Xavier. Same with Mystique. Got popular because Nightcrawler and Rogue and the movies. Big push. Magneto got popular in the comic when he became a hero for a bit. He was Dr Doom level back then. He's now a hero turned villain when he was a Lex Luthor/Dr Doom type of character (scientist). Only because the heroes were popular. The most popular story in X-men is Phoenix Saga. Hero story. Captain America shot up during Winter Soldier. Apocalypse's story was popular because it was Angel that became a Horseman. Iron Man really only had Mandarin and they kept using him. Look at his 2 most recent animated series (not the anime). Both were Mandarin heavy. And they even changed the character entirely from the racist character from the comics. Even the Trevor version was nothing like the comics. Killmonger is the same type of villain as Magneto and you hate that. He has never been shown as the angry black man stereotype. He's just black and you see being black as being "angry black man" when it comes to him being a villain. Hell, he was calm the entire time until he had to raise his voice. You need to get over your MCU hate or stop watching X-men movies. Heh.
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Post by Skaathar on Jun 20, 2018 13:59:09 GMT
MCU fans claim that's not true, but it's 100% true. Without Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker is just a farmboy and not a Jedi Knight who destroyed the Death Star and help defeat the Galactic Empire. It's like Ben Affleck said in Boiler Room: "Whoever who says 'Money isn't everything' doesn't have any." They don't have money so they say "Money isn't everything" in order to make themselves feel better about themselves. But if they were part of that 1% that was rich, they wouldn't say "Money isn't everything", they would say "Money is the most important thing". Likewise with MCU and MCU fans. The only reason that MCU and MCU fans say that it's not true that a good hero needs a good villain to challenge them and push them to the limit is because they know MCU doesn't have any good villains. But if MCU had access to the X-Men's villains or the Fantastic Four's villains, then MCU and the MCU fans would be saying that it's true that a good hero needs a good villain and fortunately there are some good X-Men villains and Fantastic Four villains. But since MCU doesn't have access to those good villains and doesn't have any good villains left, that's why MCU and MCU fans say that it isn't true to make themselves feel better. But it's 100% true. A hero isn't great if he's not challenged or pushed to the limit by a great adversary. If all Perseus had to do was outsmart 3 blind witches and defeat Calibos, then he wouldn't be a great hero. It's defeating Medusa and the Kraken that made Perseus a great hero. So this means DCEU has no great heroes at all, since they have even worse villains than the MCU.
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Post by Skaathar on Jun 20, 2018 14:01:03 GMT
Funny thing you said this OP. Nolan said the same two months earlier that his movies were about the villains more. Singer had the same thing in his head, it was the reason he had an obsession with magneto but thank god other characters like Xavier and Wolverine were there to balance magneto out. every great movie or story needs great villains, that is just excellent writing fact. true comic fans knows this. Then it must suck for you that the X-men movies only really had 1 good villain.
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Post by summers8 on Jun 20, 2018 14:29:48 GMT
Marvel is about heroes? mcu fans. please stop embarrassing real comics marvel fans. marvel is about heroes and villains. watch shows like XMEN TAS or SPIDERMAN TAS for prove. disney mcu is about heroes because they did not want good villains on purpose as good villains could end up making their movies darker and heavier.
funny thing with marvel comics, they had two of the best rogues gallery in comics outside of batman with spiderman and xmen villains but even iron man villains still had some cult fans, this is why they all got mad after the mandarin was a joke, when he should have been a real villain terrorist.
but then again, MCU fans like you got so desperate you deluded yourselves into thinking killmonger who is actually a one dimensional villain with the angry black man stereotype was better than magneto, who is not even a pure villain. in all fairness, this lie was actually not that bad, it would have been worse to compare Loltron in age of ultron to Sentinels in DOFP. LMAO.
Wow. Way to turn this to being about X-men versus the MCU. Why do you think I mentioned animated series? Without those and live action series the villains wouldn't be as popular. Also variety. And also marketability. Do you think casual Fan's know who Apocalypse and Vulture were before the recent movies? We know them because we follow them and they are popular in our circles. Look at Mystique and Juggernaut. Juggernaut shouldn't be as popular as he is, but he has Xavier. Same with Mystique. Got popular because Nightcrawler and Rogue and the movies. Big push. Magneto got popular in the comic when he became a hero for a bit. He was Dr Doom level back then. He's now a hero turned villain when he was a Lex Luthor/Dr Doom type of character (scientist). Only because the heroes were popular. The most popular story in X-men is Phoenix Saga. Hero story. Captain America shot up during Winter Soldier. Apocalypse's story was popular because it was Angel that became a Horseman. Iron Man really only had Mandarin and they kept using him. Look at his 2 most recent animated series (not the anime). Both were Mandarin heavy. And they even changed the character entirely from the racist character from the comics. Even the Trevor version was nothing like the comics. Killmonger is the same type of villain as Magneto and you hate that. He has never been shown as the angry black man stereotype. He's just black and you see being black as being "angry black man" when it comes to him being a villain. Hell, he was calm the entire time until he had to raise his voice. You need to get over your MCU hate or stop watching X-men movies. Heh. Interesting, the more you lie the more pathetic you make mcu look.its not about popularity though I think the current state of mcu and their cgi garbage movies, Marvel has now become more of a joke today and sort of infamous like twilight became in the vampire world in comics and the genre is now less popular, less respected and mocked at thanks to mcu movies. its about good writing and doing the work.mcu movies are poorly written and written for children in mind so their villains suffer. that is why mcu has bad villians. Killmonger is the perfect example, he is a weak villain because he is one dimensional, unsympathetic and unlikeable compared to Magneto or even the Joker.Am sorry but you need to get over your xmen and DC hate, it is not their fault that these other series had less flaws and MCU is seen as an embarrassing joke compared to the best of these franchise. I dislike MCU for truthful reasons.
LOL.Stop watching xmen movies, poor mcu fans, I remember when they used to lie they loved Logan. I guess the logan embarrassment has now become to much for them to handle. remember when mcu fans told people to stop watching the old star wars movie or the sam raimi spiderman movies? Like that help MCU r disney?no, it just made mcu and disney look more garbage than they already look. See Kylo Ren or Snoke to see how disney messes up another villain. its a disney pattern.
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Post by summers8 on Jun 20, 2018 14:35:38 GMT
Funny thing you said this OP. Nolan said the same two months earlier that his movies were about the villains more. Singer had the same thing in his head, it was the reason he had an obsession with magneto but thank god other characters like Xavier and Wolverine were there to balance magneto out. every great movie or story needs great villains, that is just excellent writing fact. true comic fans knows this. Then it must suck for you that the X-men movies only really had 1 good villain. technically no.
Most xmen villains have been good . the fact is in the history of xmen movies, there was never much complaints about the villains. the villains were strong and did not weaken the writing. mcu has had a villain problem since their first film and they got worse and worse and worse. to the point that we now have a topic called the mcu villain problem. that topic does not exist in xmen or many DC movies because their movies for better or worse were not written to appeal to kids first so villains were allowed to really act evil and be a threat. unlike mcu comedy villains that are dumbed down.
enjoy a good villain from first class. see how he tortures a child for his own pleasure. see why this is not problematic?
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palerider
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Post by palerider on Jun 20, 2018 15:41:00 GMT
Yes, it is. Even Magneto didn't become a memorable character until the 80s. The old FOX X-men cartoon had a LOT of problems. A lot of them, and plenty of crappy villains too. The Spider-Man cartoon was more about Peter than anyone else. The X-Men don't have many good villains anyways. No, I think it's just because they wanted the stories to be about the heroes to show people that they don't need the villains to steal the show. Spider-Man yes, X-Men no. That's more because they got fooled by MCU (deliberately) and people don't like admitting they were fooled. He is. He had legitimate reasons and a backstory, while Magneto's character depends on nothing ever changing and no one developing. [/div][/quote] The Sentinels weren't very good villains either, they were pretty lazily written.
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palerider
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Post by palerider on Jun 20, 2018 15:43:51 GMT
Wow. Way to turn this to being about X-men versus the MCU. Why do you think I mentioned animated series? Without those and live action series the villains wouldn't be as popular. Also variety. And also marketability. Do you think casual Fan's know who Apocalypse and Vulture were before the recent movies? We know them because we follow them and they are popular in our circles. Look at Mystique and Juggernaut. Juggernaut shouldn't be as popular as he is, but he has Xavier. Same with Mystique. Got popular because Nightcrawler and Rogue and the movies. Big push. Magneto got popular in the comic when he became a hero for a bit. He was Dr Doom level back then. He's now a hero turned villain when he was a Lex Luthor/Dr Doom type of character (scientist). Only because the heroes were popular. The most popular story in X-men is Phoenix Saga. Hero story. Captain America shot up during Winter Soldier. Apocalypse's story was popular because it was Angel that became a Horseman. Iron Man really only had Mandarin and they kept using him. Look at his 2 most recent animated series (not the anime). Both were Mandarin heavy. And they even changed the character entirely from the racist character from the comics. Even the Trevor version was nothing like the comics. Killmonger is the same type of villain as Magneto and you hate that. He has never been shown as the angry black man stereotype. He's just black and you see being black as being "angry black man" when it comes to him being a villain. Hell, he was calm the entire time until he had to raise his voice. You need to get over your MCU hate or stop watching X-men movies. Heh. its about good writing and doing the work. And the MCU does that. They're "Bad" because they aren't the stars of the show. Because making the villains the stars is lazy. He's a great villain. I've been watching your posts, there seems to be more personal offense than legitimate reasons. Eh, Logan was okay but it really was just the kind of stuff Charles Bronson and Clint Eastwood have done to death.
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palerider
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Post by palerider on Jun 20, 2018 15:48:26 GMT
Then it must suck for you that the X-men movies only really had 1 good villain. technically no. Most xmen villains have been good . Not really. Only Magneto. . Because they're the stars of the show. People complain about Apocalypse and Silver Samurai and the Reavers. They got better, they just refuse to make the movies make the villains the stars. Because that's lazy. People are really just too used to the villain being the star. Easy. Yes they do. Shaw was a very flat villain. It's why hardly anyone remembers him.
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Post by summers8 on Jun 20, 2018 15:57:50 GMT
Yes, it is. Even Magneto didn't become a memorable character until the 80s. The old FOX X-men cartoon had a LOT of problems. A lot of them, and plenty of crappy villains too. The Spider-Man cartoon was more about Peter than anyone else. The X-Men don't have many good villains anyways. No, I think it's just because they wanted the stories to be about the heroes to show people that they don't need the villains to steal the show. Spider-Man yes, X-Men no. That's more because they got fooled by MCU (deliberately) and people don't like admitting they were fooled. He is. He had legitimate reasons and a backstory, while Magneto's character depends on nothing ever changing and no one developing.
LOL...Looks like formershamd is back. You have less of a chance of me replying to you. I used to think your racism and anti Semitism comments were bad but the fact that you doxxed another user with his dead brother. You are now even more non existence to me than before. Way to get ignored again about now.
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palerider
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Post by palerider on Jun 20, 2018 16:04:47 GMT
Yes, it is. Even Magneto didn't become a memorable character until the 80s. The old FOX X-men cartoon had a LOT of problems. A lot of them, and plenty of crappy villains too. The Spider-Man cartoon was more about Peter than anyone else. The X-Men don't have many good villains anyways. No, I think it's just because they wanted the stories to be about the heroes to show people that they don't need the villains to steal the show. Spider-Man yes, X-Men no. That's more because they got fooled by MCU (deliberately) and people don't like admitting they were fooled. He is. He had legitimate reasons and a backstory, while Magneto's character depends on nothing ever changing and no one developing.
LOL...Looks like formershamd is back. You have less of a chance of me replying to you. I used to think your racism and anti Semitism comments were bad but the fact that you doxxed another user with his dead brother. You are now even more non existence to me than before. Way to get ignored again about now. I dunno what you're on about. But you seem awfully sensitive over this. You act like this to anyone who likes MCU and current Star Wars movies?
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Post by Skaathar on Jun 20, 2018 18:00:32 GMT
Then it must suck for you that the X-men movies only really had 1 good villain. technically no.
Most xmen villains have been good . the fact is in the history of xmen movies, there was never much complaints about the villains. the villains were strong and did not weaken the writing. mcu has had a villain problem since their first film and they got worse and worse and worse. to the point that we now have a topic called the mcu villain problem. that topic does not exist in xmen or many DC movies because their movies for better or worse were not written to appeal to kids first so villains were allowed to really act evil and be a threat. unlike mcu comedy villains that are dumbed down.
enjoy a good villain from first class. see how he tortures a child for his own pleasure. see why this is not problematic?
Technically, yes. Most Xmen villains have been crap. Silver Samurai, Apocalypse, Pierce, Toad, etc. You only have Magneto who's a really good villain, then you have Stryker (old) and Shaw who were pretty decent... roughly around the same level as Pierce (TWS) and Killian. You have a few decent henchmen like Sabertooth (Origins) and Lady Deathstrike but they're pretty much as good as henchmen like Kurse, Skurge, etc. So no, you're wrong. Completely. Magneto is the only really good Xmen villain.
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