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Post by petrolino on Jan 2, 2022 4:38:03 GMT
I feel it's perhaps worth noting that psychedelia was a huge influence on punk and some punks had already been in 60s bands. A number of them covered '60s songs live and musicians of all types hung out together in New York.
The only punks I ever met who hated hippies were some of the later, right-wing boot boys who liked basic angry music and they hated just about everyone.
Debbie Harry (while a member of Wind In The Willows)
We all hated hippies. We hated Pink Floyd. Lol.
Yes there were hard left bands like The Clash. But we had freedom to reevaluate politics. You could be conservative and be radical. It was an interesting time.
Yeah, I know Debbie Harry was a Grand Old Dame already in the 70's. Lol.
Check out Psychedelic Furs too.
I understand, in a way I was just keen to praise punk for its diversity. As you'll know, there were many different groupings and viewpoints, and when Malcolm McLaren brought punk to the U K (where I am) he created a very different vibe to the existing punk scenes in New York, Ohio, Minnesota and California. I wasn't around when punk broke here, but I've met a lot of old punk musicians over the years as I used to be in a band, most of whom were awesome people, and they all saw things differently. The late great Pete Shelley said most punks had Pink Floyd and Yes records, they just hid them at the back of their closets.
I like Psychedelic Furs, but there's records of theirs I've not heard, thanks for the recommendation.
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Post by petrolino on Jan 2, 2022 7:55:03 GMT
I understand, in a way I was just keen to praise punk for its diversity. As you'll know, there were many different groupings and viewpoints, and when Malcolm McLaren brought punk to the U K (where I am) he created a very different vibe to the existing punk scenes in New York, Ohio, Minnesota and California. I wasn't around when punk broke here, but I've met a lot of old punk musicians over the years as I used to be in a band, most of whom were awesome people, and they all saw things differently. The late great Pete Shelley said most punks had Pink Floyd and Yes records, they just hid them at the back of their closets.
I like Psychedelic Furs, but there's records of theirs I've not heard, thanks for the recommendation.
What struck me about punk when it first broke was an energetic simplicity. I mention Pink Floyd because rock had gotten very artsy and austere. Punk was basic and stripped down back to rock roots.
My point about the hippies and politics was that they were unabashedly leftist. The whole movement had that political slant. Much of punk was reactionary. The Sex Pistols had a song called "Bodies" which I immediately recognized as anti-abortion. This was revolutionary for a rock band in the liberal 70's. John Lydon came back years later and denies "Bodies" was an anti-abortion song. But I think he's lying.
My point is that the hippies got rather intolerant in their leftism. And the punk generation started reevaluating some leftist ideas which had become sacred and untouchable at that point. It was just an exciting time to look at everything from a new perspective.
I assume an overreaction to the over-conservatism of Joseph McCarthy's picture-perfect America.
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Post by Stammerhead on Jan 2, 2022 9:28:28 GMT
I assume an overreaction to the over-conservatism of Joseph McCarthy's picture-perfect America.
There was also a movement in the early 60's I find interesting - the Mods.
The hippie back-to-nature movement stifled it.
There was a Mod revival during the late 70s which coincided with the release of Quadrophenia but that didn't last long. The skinheads and Nazis hated them and I witnessed some horrific scenes at gigs.
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Post by enigma72 on Jan 7, 2022 21:53:44 GMT
thank you all for an interesting and so far fairly civil debate. I appreciate it. Once i recover and my brain cells work again Ill contribute too  You have great brain cells! |
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Post by ellynmacg on Jan 8, 2022 0:32:32 GMT
I assume an overreaction to the over-conservatism of Joseph McCarthy's picture-perfect America.
There was also a movement in the early 60's I find interesting - the Mods.
The hippie back-to-nature movement stifled it.
I think it says a lot about The Beatles and the Rolling Stones--at least in their early days--that when Mick Jagger was asked, "Are you a Mod or a Rocker?" he reportedly replied, "I'm a Rod." When Ringo Starr was asked the same question (as part of the dialogue in A Hard Day's Night), he replied, "I'm a Mocker." 
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Post by darkreviewer2013 on Jan 8, 2022 8:39:29 GMT
A is my Dad.
hard working = esp. when it comes to physical labour
likes to project as tough = yup
are too conservative/rigid in opinions - true, he still can't stand female professionals
more geared toward corruption = yup, idolises corrupt politicians
less sympathetic toward others = yup
B is me.
entitled = there's some degree of truth to that claim
lazy = oh boy, that one rings true
unreliable = yup
bleeding hearts without real principles behind it = I have principles but I am a bleeing heart liberal nonetheless, guilty as charged
creative and mentally quite fragile = have you been spying on me?
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Post by Stammerhead on Jan 8, 2022 11:03:03 GMT
There was also a movement in the early 60's I find interesting - the Mods.
The hippie back-to-nature movement stifled it.
I think it says a lot about The Beatles and the Rolling Stones--at least in their early days--that when Mick Jagger was asked, "Are you a Mod or a Rocker?" he reportedly replied, "I'm a Rod." When Ringo Starr was asked the same question (as part of the dialogue in A Hard Day's Night), he replied, "I'm a Mocker." We used to ask each other that question when we were schoolboys and would jump onto the other one if he gave the “wrong” answer. Real Mods and Rockers didn’t have to be asked as their appearances were almost the opposite to each other.
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Post by Stammerhead on Jan 8, 2022 11:30:27 GMT
I assume an overreaction to the over-conservatism of Joseph McCarthy's picture-perfect America.
There was also a movement in the early 60's I find interesting - the Mods.
The hippie back-to-nature movement stifled it.
The bit about the Hippy movement stifling the Mods has been niggling at me for a few weeks. The Mods changed over time with some adopting the Edwardian psychedelic look which then turned into the Hippy look while another branch evolved into the Skinhead movement. The clean cut suited look of the Mods still survived along with their love of soul music and that branched into the funk and soul clubbing scene which later incorporated disco. Up North they had Northern Soul. Boomers were really a mixed bunch.
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Post by Fox in the Snow on Jan 8, 2022 13:15:07 GMT
I don't think creativity is a trait exclusive to millennials
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uncreative
Sophomore
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Post by uncreative on Jan 8, 2022 17:09:59 GMT
As a group that boomer description sounds about right. Individually it varies but that's true anywhere. The hard working part might be debatable though. Everybody likes to exaggerate how busy and important they are. I think part of the reason they have no sympathy is because they're so out of touch. When they grew up you could pay for your entire college education with a part time minimum wage job, buy a house on one income, and actually afford to have kids. A lot of them don't realize or don't care that wages haven't kept up with the cost of living in the last 40 years because it hasn't been their problem. But it will never be fixed until they get out of the way. Since they refuse to retire that's only going to happen when they die on their own or to an angry mob.
As a millennial I definitely am a lazy, entitled, bleeding heart but the creative and mentally fragile part doesn't fit.
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Post by Stammerhead on Jan 8, 2022 19:20:47 GMT
The bit about the Hippy movement stifling the Mods has been niggling at me for a few weeks. The Mods changed over time with some adopting the Edwardian psychedelic look which then turned into the Hippy look while another branch evolved into the Skinhead movement. The clean cut suited look of the Mods still survived along with their love of soul music and that branched into the funk and soul clubbing scene which later incorporated disco. Up North they had Northern Soul. Boomers were really a mixed bunch. I don't know why it's "niggling" you?
It's just my observation growing up punk in the 70's and 80's. The hippies are what we rebelled against. And sure, transitions are never smooth and neat and there is overlap. So mod elements blended with hippy I'm sure. But there was a huge sea change between early 60's positive modernism and late 60's hippy atavism.
The oversimplification was annoying. Plus the thought of a bunch of street fighting Mods being stifled by peace loving Hippies makes me wonder if you actually understand what went on over here. 
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Post by Stammerhead on Jan 8, 2022 20:37:37 GMT
The oversimplification was annoying. Plus the thought of a bunch of street fighting Mods being stifled by peace loving Hippies makes me wonder if you actually understand what went on over here. I know nothing about street fighting. I'm just referring to smartly dressed young people in the early 60's who gave way to hippie slobs in the late 60's.
The cultural change took place in the U.S. as well. We had the early 60's and the glamorous JFK and Jacky who did speed. And then hippies who dropped acid and communes and Charles Manson and his gang of loonies.
This:
Gave way to this:
And then we had glam rock which had a close association with the hippies and was popular with those who later went on to become punks and the funk/soul crowd. 
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Post by Sarge on Jan 9, 2022 4:04:28 GMT
As a GenX'er, Boomers and Zoomers are indistinguishable, both entitled and spoiled brats that rebel for the sake of rebelling, but are clueless as to what is actually going on. Both will, and have, end up mostly conservative. Millennials are more diverse, there are at least two, or three, distinct groups with Millennials. The so-called, Elder Millennials are more like GenX while younger Millennials are a mixed bag. I like their appreciation for hand made goods and their anti-corporatism.I will say that Elder Boomers made some great music.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jan 9, 2022 4:50:56 GMT
entitled and spoiled brats that rebel for the sake of rebelling, but are clueless as to what is actually going on. Rebelling young ignorants, like diapper shitting infants, are not a question of generation, only of age.
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Post by Sarge on Jan 9, 2022 5:08:26 GMT
entitled and spoiled brats that rebel for the sake of rebelling, but are clueless as to what is actually going on. Rebelling young ignorants, like diapper shitting infants, are not a question of generation, only of age. Generally, yes, but Gen Y and Z were products of marketing companies that foresaw the value of creating a market they could define and presumably control. They created them, defined them, but couldn't control them. That's why you don't see the same marketing buzz about the next labeled generation. There is no such thing as Gen Y or Z, never was.
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Post by Nora on Jan 10, 2022 15:46:50 GMT
I have a very small sample to evaluate of course, just my personal experience, so pls take it as such. what I notice a lot on younger millennials (people 20-30 now) is the mental fragility combined with entitlement while not being good with time management. Coming late to very important meetings is now a trademark millenial thing in my head. BUT, I am also thinking: is that just me observing it from being older (lets say wiser) and was I the same way when I was their age? Perhaps I was with the entitlement, but not the time management I dont think. I cant imagine being consistently late to work like I am seeing from many people across different countries, jobs and social groups of millennials. If its a mixed age meeting, its usually the boomers and the gen xrs waiting around for the millennials to come about 15-20 minutes late, looking completely unfazed or thinking that since they have SOME excuse its NOT a problem. I worked with two screenwriters last month who had 5 meetings with me and some actually important people from tv network they were hoping to write their show for. They came late to all 5 meetings. 8-20 minutes late. Not a few minutes late. They had a different excuse each time: 1. uber took too long 2. Couldnt find the address 3. Had a sudden emergency at another job 4. Was waiting for covid test results 5. Roommate troubles. Each time they were presenting the reason why they werent on time it seemed to me they expected a full and complete understanding. I would have been So embarrassed had it been me in their shoes. They let the head of programming wait twice for them. Needless to say they are now fired (for other reasons mostly). And they went out very angry, not understanding their work as well as their attitude toward work had major flaws. And the tv network gave them So Many chances, I was actually surprised to see just how much support they were giving them before making this tough decision. But the fact the millenials didnt exhibit signs of true remorse or understanding how that affects other people and their likelihood of staying on the projects made me really wonder. Hence why I asked this question, because I saw the same thing on other projects recently. Its the 20-30 yods that come late to meetings yet bring the most entitlement. On boomers, I see their demands for work ethics as something I aspire to, not something I judge, the only problem I see is what somebody already mentioned, they did benefit from a different economy and today especially the purchase power of younger people when it comes to housing is really poor and boomers dont seem to understand that, plus I have seen them be overly judgmental toward unusual jobs such as youtuber or jobs that take place at night (like a bartender not a lady of the night) not recognizing it as "real work" and so on. So to sum it up, Gen Xs are the best, right? We are flawless  |
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Post by Stammerhead on Jan 10, 2022 18:16:03 GMT
So to sum it up, Gen Xs are the best, right? We are flawless Yeah but, as I pointed out at the start, Generation X stole their name from a Baby Boomer Punk band. 
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Post by thebayharborbutcher on Jan 10, 2022 18:29:18 GMT
I feel like it's all too much generalization. Some millennials are lazy and entitled. Others are not. Some Boomers are conservative and hard working. Others are not. For me, I'm all about the individual. I don't think the generation you were born in does all that much to define you.
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Post by Nora on Jan 10, 2022 19:55:10 GMT
I feel like it's all too much generalization. Some millennials are lazy and entitled. Others are not. Some Boomers are conservative and hard working. Others are not. For me, I'm all about the individual. I don't think the generation you were born in does all that much to define you. i agree its a lot of simplification and generalization. certainly nothing scientific. but i think which decade you are born does define you to Some degree. Like talk to anybody from Europe who was born just before, during ww1 or ww2 or shortly after about their values. To their death my grandparents Never threw away Any type of food. My parents still struggle with it. Even if its expired or no good I have to talk them into throwing it out and something do it kinda behind their back or pry it out of their hands. Its a generational thing. Food was sacred to their parents and those are the values instilled in them. My parents dont throw out even old hardened bread. “bread cant go into trash. EVER”. Is their motto. So we hoard the old bread and then go to the country find villagers who have hens/chickens/whatever animals that eat old bread and we give it to them. Seemed ridiculous to me, but I learned to understand it. Things like this. Same with work ethics. Working 6 days a week 10 hours a day? For certain generations (and cultures) totally acceptable/ normal. For other its unthinkable or considered cruel and unusual punishment. They may still do it out of necessity but will think world is cruel to them. To my grandparents who struggled throughout war and concentration camp and then poverty after - it was much more normal. they did what they had to to support their families and thought its more normal. might be very diff for americans or asians of africans of course, each culture has their own history and differences. But i think generations do share CERTAIN values and traits. Look at privacy. to people from the fifties Alexa or Siri would be a wiretapping their house. Device that always listens, that spies on them. Simply a Nightmare. Now everybody has it and they consider it normal. Or kids that literally stream their lives on various platforms. Such a shift in the way people view whats private and how to protect it.
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