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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 14, 2023 22:03:45 GMT
Paul of Tarsus did a tremendous amount of the early work almost on his own. We have a few hours of his thoughts down on paper but he worked his mission for over 30 years, so undoubtedly he said a lot more to his followers. Going by his writing, he was dynamic speaker. The James’ Jerusalem church didn’t want to include gentiles unless they converted fully to Judaism. Paul saw the potential in the religious marketplace. I'm sure you've studied this way more than I have. Would it be reasonable to give Paul of Tarsus pretty much all the credit for conceiving Christianity as a world religion, open to everyone? Before him, it seems to be one of several competing Jewish sects. The folk church foundations, certainly, not the later hierarchies. Before anyone heard Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount read from Matthew in the late 1st century, they heard Paul’s 2 corinthians 5:17, two generations earlier. And this sermon is not in Mark, which itself did not appear until near or after Paul’s death. He even published before the the extra-biblical gospels. He’s my favorite “biblical” character because we have his own words and thoughts and he’s not always sermonizing, but giving advice, sharing personal anecdotes, and little side notes hellos that makes he seem familiar. He would have been in like the .009% of humans in the world who could read and write at his education level.
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Post by clusium on Mar 14, 2023 22:39:15 GMT
Those sectarian traditions are based on place of origin. Not Biblical interpretation. They still follow the same tenants of the Church. Catholicism & Orthodoxy split in the 10'Th Century. However, their core tenants are pretty much the same. Most of the structure of Christianity is not based in Judaism, but adheres closely to pagan traditions. Sharing bread and wine was a common practice to honor the gods, and the Greco-Roman world had shockingly high number of gods to appease and ask for intercession so they will continue to bless Rome and make it successful. Getting the number of deities down to three guys and their mother was an attraction alone for the new religion. Nonsense!! Judaism was no exception when it came to sharing bread and wine, in ancient cultures, particularly during the Sabbath. Bread & Wine In Ancient Judaism
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Post by amyghost on Mar 14, 2023 22:43:41 GMT
Those studies are based on the western population where the overwhelming majority of the religious & spiritual are Christians. A number of the links are only able to be viewed fully by pay per view, but you may be able to find copies of the full studies somewhere online if you look hard enough. Regardless the links show an abundance of positive religious benefits for society.
Not particularly, and there were only ten links, hardly constituting an overwhelming body of research and evidence. That they are Western-based automatically tends to denote bias, so once more, they can hardly be taken as evidence that Christianity is a positive influence on human society overall, and precious little to suggest much more than that the idea of its being such is much more than wishful thinking, backed up by some in various fields (which, in the above sample are more trended towards psychology and sociology than the scientific fields in which there's little to show that Christianity has had much positive impact) who share that bias.
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Post by amyghost on Mar 14, 2023 22:56:09 GMT
Of course. The science that Christianity helped give rise to. And the Christians got from that from the pagan Greeks via the Muslims and Jews who had preserved as much classical documents as possible. The Western Church did fall into a long dark ages of superstition and zealotry, where intellectualism was suppressed. The number Zero was considered slightly heretical until the high Middle Ages. Excellent point, Paul, and one that needed alluding to. Such respect for science as science was derived from pre-Christian societies, and not from anything inhering in Christian thought and belief itself.
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Post by amyghost on Mar 14, 2023 23:13:43 GMT
There are sectarian traditions within Catholicism: there are seven non-Latin, non-Roman ecclesial traditions: Armenian, Byzantine, Coptic, Ethiopian, East Syriac (Chaldean), West Syriac, and Maronite. Each to the Churches with these non-Latin traditions is as Catholic as the Roman Catholic Church. The very name 'catholic' taken from the adjective meaning "a wide variety of things; all-embracing" reflects this. If you are insisting the Roman Catholic tradition is the only 'true' one, you are involved in a version of No True Scotsman right off the bat. Trying to lay schisms wholly at the feet of the Protestant tradition is an error, but one RC'ers are quite prone to. As for those secular, non-God affiliated movements: Those good teachings that they may have taught would have originally come from religious teachings, such as Christianity, etc.
Wrong again, as any student of philosophy could easily point out. Those sectarian traditions are based on place of origin. Not Biblical interpretation. They still follow the same tenants of the Church. Catholicism & Orthodoxy split in the 10'Th Century. However, their core tenants are pretty much the same. False. Here is a list of ten differences between the RC and Greek Orthodox church alone (this is not counting the other six variants or sects): www.saintjohnchurch.org/differences-between-orthodox-and-catholic/There are numerous doctrinal differences between just these two, and these include certain interpretations of scripture. Although some core tenets remain the same, there are clearly others that differ fairly broadly. And again, this is only in the split between RC and Orthodox, and does not include likely doctrinal differences in the others as well.
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Post by clusium on Mar 14, 2023 23:29:27 GMT
Those sectarian traditions are based on place of origin. Not Biblical interpretation. They still follow the same tenants of the Church. Catholicism & Orthodoxy split in the 10'Th Century. However, their core tenants are pretty much the same. False. Here is a list of ten differences between the RC and Greek Orthodox church alone (this is not counting the other six variants or sects): www.saintjohnchurch.org/differences-between-orthodox-and-catholic/There are numerous doctrinal differences between just these two, and these include certain interpretations of scripture. Although some core tenets remain the same, there are clearly others that differ fairly broadly. And again, this is only in the split between RC and Orthodox, and does not include likely doctrinal differences in the others as well. There are far more similarities between Catholicism & Orthodoxy, than there are with a great many churches that were formed after the Protestant Reformation. Anglicanism & Lutheranism (which is the original Protestant church)are the closest to Catholicism.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Mar 14, 2023 23:39:26 GMT
Pat Robertson
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 14, 2023 23:46:12 GMT
If that's the case, then it's all over.
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Post by rizdek on Mar 14, 2023 23:52:26 GMT
Jesus? Paul? or Constantine? I've always been told Christianity is just one generation from dying out and disappearing. So its survival depends on each person who wants it to continue. I don't think it's true, but I want it to continue because I fear that without it, the religious types throughout the US would have no moral compass. I have a fine moral compass and it works just great, but from what I hear from many Christians if there wasn't a god 'holding their feet to the fire' so to speak, no tellin' what kind of havoc they'd reek....or is it they'd reek of havoc? Or they'd wreck them some havoc...something like that.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Mar 14, 2023 23:57:41 GMT
If that's the case, then it's all over. Not a fan of televangelists (Billy Graham, Jim Bakker, Joel Olsteen), Herald?
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 15, 2023 0:01:30 GMT
If that's the case, then it's all over. Not a fan of televangelists (Billy Graham, Jim Bakker, Joel Olsteen), Herald? No, I'm not. Especially Joel Osteen, aka the Grinning Devil.
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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 15, 2023 3:05:01 GMT
And the Christians got from that from the pagan Greeks via the Muslims and Jews who had preserved as much classical documents as possible. The Western Church did fall into a long dark ages of superstition and zealotry, where intellectualism was suppressed. The number Zero was considered slightly heretical until the high Middle Ages. Excellent point, Paul, and one that needed alluding to. Such respect for science as science was derived from pre-Christian societies, and not from anything inhering in Christian thought and belief itself. A huge disrespect for and opposition to science is also a part of Christianity.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 15, 2023 3:16:29 GMT
Excellent point, Paul, and one that needed alluding to. Such respect for science as science was derived from pre-Christian societies, and not from anything inhering in Christian thought and belief itself. A huge disrespect for and opposition to science is also a part of Christianity. No, it isn't.
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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 15, 2023 3:17:50 GMT
Most of the structure of Christianity is not based in Judaism, but adheres closely to pagan traditions. Sharing bread and wine was a common practice to honor the gods, and the Greco-Roman world had shockingly high number of gods to appease and ask for intercession so they will continue to bless Rome and make it successful. Getting the number of deities down to three guys and their mother was an attraction alone for the new religion. Nonsense!! Judaism was no exception when it came to sharing bread and wine, in ancient cultures, particularly during the Sabbath. Bread & Wine In Ancient JudaismLook at the word structure or practices, this has nothing to do with faith itself, because Christianity rituals and such do not resemble Judaism much. So it’s not nonsense if you read enough books. Why is being educated on the subject such horrible thing to you. You guys will brag on all the things Christianity has done for humanity, yet will not give its history an honest ten minutes of consideration and damn anyone as bad to evil if they have curiosity.
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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 15, 2023 3:21:24 GMT
A huge disrespect for and opposition to science is also a part of Christianity. No, it isn't. Then did God create the universe exactly as it is written in the Bible? Yes or no.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 15, 2023 3:25:17 GMT
Then did God create the universe exactly as it is written in the Bible? Yes or no. That has nothing to do with your slanderous claim.
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Post by clusium on Mar 15, 2023 3:30:31 GMT
Nonsense!! Judaism was no exception when it came to sharing bread and wine, in ancient cultures, particularly during the Sabbath. Bread & Wine In Ancient JudaismLook at the word structure or practices, this has nothing to do with faith itself, because Christianity rituals and such do not resemble Judaism much. So it’s not nonsense if you read enough books. Why is being educated on the subject such horrible thing to you. You guys will brag on all the things Christianity has done for humanity, yet will not give its history an honest ten minutes of consideration and damn anyone as bad to evil if they have curiosity. I have read about religions for years & years. And yes, bread & wine is used in Shabbat rituals.
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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 15, 2023 3:55:05 GMT
Look at the word structure or practices, this has nothing to do with faith itself, because Christianity rituals and such do not resemble Judaism much. So it’s not nonsense if you read enough books. Why is being educated on the subject such horrible thing to you. You guys will brag on all the things Christianity has done for humanity, yet will not give its history an honest ten minutes of consideration and damn anyone as bad to evil if they have curiosity. I have read about religions for years & years. And yes, bread & wine is used in Shabbat rituals. And bread and wine was not used in any temple rituals, but it was used in temple paganism. Judaism has no ritual to consecrate a living God using bread and wine, this practice comes from paganism. Judaism did not honor saints or dared have one prayer to any being other than God Almighty, but the household gods to whom one prayed to say, find lost objects or bless a childbirth was common in paganism. No woman was honored at all in Judaism, but the Virgin Mary was given the same love, respect, and prayer in the same way a goddess would be. Even the notion that God has a mother in the form of the BVM is totally alien to Judaism. Becoming a Christian in those days had little to do with being a part of the Jewish tradition.
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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 15, 2023 3:57:50 GMT
Then did God create the universe exactly as it is written in the Bible? Yes or no. That has nothing to do with your slanderous claim. Well coming from someone who thinks the Illuminati is taking over the planet any day now....
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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 15, 2023 4:05:15 GMT
This pagan influence in no way ingates anything in Christianity that you think is sacred. After all, salvation is not just something for the Jews, God loves pagans too, that is the whole point of the religion. God can act through paganism too and can hear their prayers. He does not belong to you alone.
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