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Post by amyghost on Apr 21, 2024 23:31:48 GMT
Hitler identified as a Catholic. He originally embraced Christian ideals, and though he later abandoned them, he continued to see Christianity as a useful tool for combatting the Jewish 'enemy'. He also had disdain for atheists and atheism. Several notorious serial killers, Ted Bundy among them, were raised as Christians, some of them in quite devout homes--so devout, in fact, that child abuse, cloaked as Christian child-rearing, helped to warp them psychologically. Many serial and single murderers have identified as devout Christians, in fact. Because no one would label their homicidal deeds as Christian does not mean they were not raised in the faith and often felt themselves a part of it even after committing their crimes. And in the cases of Catholic devout who were murderers, I know of no instance of Church excommunication of any of them for their acts. www.google.com/search?q=serial+killers+who+were+Christians&rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS879US879&oq=serial+killers+who+were+Christians&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIICAEQABgWGB4yDQgCEAAYhgMYgAQYigUyDQgDEAAYhgMYgAQYigUyDQgEEAAYhgMYgAQYigXSAQoxMTM3OGowajE1qAIIsAIB&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8Hitler was raised Catholic. But, he ultimately rejected Catholicism - as well as Christianity in general -for the occult, Eastern religions, & Teutonic heathenism. He had many Christian clergy - both Catholic & Protestant alike - sent to the prison camps, & even wanted to have the Pope forcefully taken from the Vatican & sent to one as well. The afore-mentioned Paul Bernardo was an agnostic. Alex Minassian who was although Armenian descent, was never raised in the Christian faith, grew to become an atheist. Hitler turned away from organized Christianity in later life, but never rejected it entirely. He was certainly not at all averse to using the Catholic Church in his persecution of the Jews--and shamefully, the church was not always averse to lending its prestige to him. Hitler most certainly wasn't atheist, and had a marked abhorrence of atheism and atheists. And again, the RCC has never excommunicated Hitler, nor even made a public repudiation of him as a former communicant. Hitler didn't worship the occult, despite pop depictions to the contrary. In point of fact, the influence of occultism and 'occult thinking' was far less prevalent or influential in the Nazi regime than is generally supposed: aeon.co/ideas/the-nazis-as-occult-masters-its-a-good-story-but-not-historyThe fact that Bernardo and Minassian did not identify as Christians has nothing whatsoever to do with the appreciable number of murderers, mass and singular, who have identified as such, not infrequently being both self-described as 'devout' and described as being so by many who knew them.
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jimmyboy
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Post by jimmyboy on Apr 21, 2024 23:33:23 GMT
Hitler identified as a Catholic. He originally embraced Christian ideals, and though he later abandoned them, he continued to see Christianity as a useful tool for combatting the Jewish 'enemy'. He also had disdain for atheists and atheism. Several notorious serial killers, Ted Bundy among them, were raised as Christians, some of them in quite devout homes--so devout, in fact, that child abuse, cloaked as Christian child-rearing, helped to warp them psychologically. Many serial and single murderers have identified as devout Christians, in fact. Because no one would label their homicidal deeds as Christian does not mean they were not raised in the faith and often felt themselves a part of it even after committing their crimes. And in the cases of Catholic devout who were murderers, I know of no instance of Church excommunication of any of them for their acts. www.google.com/search?q=serial+killers+who+were+Christians&rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS879US879&oq=serial+killers+who+were+Christians&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIICAEQABgWGB4yDQgCEAAYhgMYgAQYigUyDQgDEAAYhgMYgAQYigUyDQgEEAAYhgMYgAQYigXSAQoxMTM3OGowajE1qAIIsAIB&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8Hitler was raised Catholic. But, he ultimately rejected Catholicism - as well as Christianity in general -for the occult, Eastern religions, & Teutonic heathenism. He had many Christian clergy - both Catholic & Protestant alike - sent to the prison camps, & even wanted to have the Pope forcefully taken from the Vatican & sent to one as well. The afore-mentioned Paul Bernardo was an agnostic. Alex Minassian who was although Armenian descent, was never raised in the Christian faith, grew to become an atheist. You missed my point...these people once believed but were evil. Other lesser known evil people believe. Do they get in to heaven?
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Post by clusium on Apr 22, 2024 0:19:07 GMT
Hitler was raised Catholic. But, he ultimately rejected Catholicism - as well as Christianity in general -for the occult, Eastern religions, & Teutonic heathenism. He had many Christian clergy - both Catholic & Protestant alike - sent to the prison camps, & even wanted to have the Pope forcefully taken from the Vatican & sent to one as well. The afore-mentioned Paul Bernardo was an agnostic. Alex Minassian who was although Armenian descent, was never raised in the Christian faith, grew to become an atheist. You missed my point...these people once believed but were evil. Other lesser known evil people believe. Do they get in to heaven? I think you & others like you miss the entire point of Pascal's Wager entirely. Blaise Pascal wasn't arguing that simply believing in God will get you into Heaven, & not believing in Him will damn you to hell. The point is, if you truly believe in God & obey His Commandments it will be better for you spiritually, whereas, denying God's Existence will put one's guard down where morale is concerned, & may be detrimental for you spiritually. The exact same point is made in Psalm 14, verse 1, where it says "The fool has said in his heart, there is no God....". That Bible verse is often quoted by Evangelical & fundamentalist Protestants towards atheists. They too, miss the point. Psalm 14 doesn't say that everybody who does not believe in God is a fool. Psalm 14 begins off with the fool. When a person denies the Supreme Being, they deny His Rule, and thereby allow their guard down spiritually, & their morale with it.
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Post by clusium on Apr 22, 2024 0:23:41 GMT
Hitler was raised Catholic. But, he ultimately rejected Catholicism - as well as Christianity in general -for the occult, Eastern religions, & Teutonic heathenism. He had many Christian clergy - both Catholic & Protestant alike - sent to the prison camps, & even wanted to have the Pope forcefully taken from the Vatican & sent to one as well. The afore-mentioned Paul Bernardo was an agnostic. Alex Minassian who was although Armenian descent, was never raised in the Christian faith, grew to become an atheist. Hitler turned away from organized Christianity in later life, but never rejected it entirely. He was certainly not at all averse to using the Catholic Church in his persecution of the Jews--and shamefully, the church was not always averse to lending its prestige to him. Hitler most certainly wasn't atheist, and had a marked abhorrence of atheism and atheists. And again, the RCC has never excommunicated Hitler, nor even made a public repudiation of him as a former communicant. Hitler didn't worship the occult, despite pop depictions to the contrary. In point of fact, the influence of occultism and 'occult thinking' was far less prevalent or influential in the Nazi regime than is generally supposed: aeon.co/ideas/the-nazis-as-occult-masters-its-a-good-story-but-not-historyThe fact that Bernardo and Minassian did not identify as Christians has nothing whatsoever to do with the appreciable number of murderers, mass and singular, who have identified as such, not infrequently being both self-described as 'devout' and described as being so by many who knew them. He may not have been an atheist, but, he did not believe in the Christian God either. As previously noted, he preferred Eastern spirituality, which was why he chose the swastika for the Nazi emblem. Hitler was on record for saying that he wished Islam -and not Christianity - was the predominant religion of Europe, because Christianity preached meekness but, Islam was spread by the sword. Bernardo was a narcissist & scored high as a psychopath.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Apr 22, 2024 11:08:35 GMT
This was you, just earlier, right? "You say you are an atheist. OK." Now, for some reason it is no longer 'OK' after all. Would you say then now that I am not a true atheist? I can sing it, say it, still that would not be a proof. Doubt, dear. You should know, it’s in your signature. Thank you. Yes, I do know.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Apr 22, 2024 11:19:20 GMT
You ask for doubt then you cry woolf when you are the subject of doubt ? We are talking quite different types of doubt here. No one doubts my existence. That is different from doubting my sincerity, even when in such cases as personal philosophy it is better to take a person at their word. You ought to know this. I have to say questioning my views as genuine after a record of years on this board, its predecessor, as well as elsewhere posting with a clear and consistent worldview is one of the silliest objections I have come across. (And remains an attack on me, rather than what I say) I note elsewhere recently you wrote a long paragraph about an unrequited crush on a colleague at work. Nobody then was so ungracious as to contest the story. I just chose a characteristic passage of prose as an example. See where I said just earlier about "your often jumbled prose. Ultimately the problems with grammar, spelling and sense" ? I do. If anyone else reading this considers your efforts a model of clear prose writing, by all means let them now speak up. I am not saying that such issues mean that you are necessarily wrong, just hard to follow. For instance just lately where you appeared to swing like a weather vane over whether mass killing etc is to be condemned outright or where an exception is to be made for those who think they act in the name of God.
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Post by amyghost on Apr 22, 2024 11:29:00 GMT
Hitler turned away from organized Christianity in later life, but never rejected it entirely. He was certainly not at all averse to using the Catholic Church in his persecution of the Jews--and shamefully, the church was not always averse to lending its prestige to him. Hitler most certainly wasn't atheist, and had a marked abhorrence of atheism and atheists. And again, the RCC has never excommunicated Hitler, nor even made a public repudiation of him as a former communicant. Hitler didn't worship the occult, despite pop depictions to the contrary. In point of fact, the influence of occultism and 'occult thinking' was far less prevalent or influential in the Nazi regime than is generally supposed: aeon.co/ideas/the-nazis-as-occult-masters-its-a-good-story-but-not-historyThe fact that Bernardo and Minassian did not identify as Christians has nothing whatsoever to do with the appreciable number of murderers, mass and singular, who have identified as such, not infrequently being both self-described as 'devout' and described as being so by many who knew them. He may not have been an atheist, but, he did not believe in the Christian God either. As previously noted, he preferred Eastern spirituality, which was why he chose the swastika for the Nazi emblem. Hitler was on record for saying that he wished Islam -and not Christianity - was the predominant religion of Europe, because Christianity preached meekness but, Islam was spread by the sword. Bernardo was a narcissist & scored high as a psychopath. His religious beliefs were not so reductively simple warfarehistorynetwork.com/hitlers-religion-was-hitler-an-atheist-christian-or-something-else/ and once again, no--he was not a devotee of Eastern cults, and the swastika emblem wasn't chosen on the basis of its symbolism in Sanskrit. It was employed because of the mistaken beliefs German White Nationalists had in the concept of the 'Aryan race'. www.historyextra.com/period/second-world-war/how-why-sanskrit-symbol-become-nazi-swastika-svastika/I find it peculiar that you seemingly equate 'Eastern religions' with the occult and with malevolent forces, but maybe not all that surprising in one with a deep-dyed Catholic background. As to Bernardo, once again that point is irrelevant to the point that many murderers have identified as Christians, sometimes devout ones; nor does it impact on the probability that many a self-described devout Christian would also score high on the narcissism and psychopathy charts.
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Post by clusium on Apr 22, 2024 14:24:16 GMT
He may not have been an atheist, but, he did not believe in the Christian God either. As previously noted, he preferred Eastern spirituality, which was why he chose the swastika for the Nazi emblem. Hitler was on record for saying that he wished Islam -and not Christianity - was the predominant religion of Europe, because Christianity preached meekness but, Islam was spread by the sword. Bernardo was a narcissist & scored high as a psychopath. His religious beliefs were not so reductively simple warfarehistorynetwork.com/hitlers-religion-was-hitler-an-atheist-christian-or-something-else/ and once again, no--he was not a devotee of Eastern cults, and the swastika emblem wasn't chosen on the basis of its symbolism in Sanskrit. It was employed because of the mistaken beliefs German White Nationalists had in the concept of the 'Aryan race'. www.historyextra.com/period/second-world-war/how-why-sanskrit-symbol-become-nazi-swastika-svastika/I find it peculiar that you seemingly equate 'Eastern religions' with the occult and with malevolent forces, but maybe not all that surprising in one with a deep-dyed Catholic background. As to Bernardo, once again that point is irrelevant to the point that many murderers have identified as Christians, sometimes devout ones; nor does it impact on the probability that many a self-described devout Christian would also score high on the narcissism and psychopathy charts. I don't equate Eastern religions with the occult. I only pointed out that Hitler preferred these over Christianity. It Turns Out 'Raiders Of The Lost Ark' Were Not Far Off The Mark About The Nazis
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Apr 23, 2024 2:08:49 GMT
Hitler turned away from organized Christianity in later life, but never rejected it entirely. He was certainly not at all averse to using the Catholic Church in his persecution of the Jews--and shamefully, the church was not always averse to lending its prestige to him. Hitler most certainly wasn't atheist, and had a marked abhorrence of atheism and atheists. And again, the RCC has never excommunicated Hitler, nor even made a public repudiation of him as a former communicant. Hitler didn't worship the occult, despite pop depictions to the contrary. In point of fact, the influence of occultism and 'occult thinking' was far less prevalent or influential in the Nazi regime than is generally supposed: aeon.co/ideas/the-nazis-as-occult-masters-its-a-good-story-but-not-historyThe fact that Bernardo and Minassian did not identify as Christians has nothing whatsoever to do with the appreciable number of murderers, mass and singular, who have identified as such, not infrequently being both self-described as 'devout' and described as being so by many who knew them. He may not have been an atheist, but, he did not believe in the Christian God either. As previously noted, he preferred Eastern spirituality, which was why he chose the swastika for the Nazi emblem. Hitler was on record for saying that he wished Islam -and not Christianity - was the predominant religion of Europe, because Christianity preached meekness but, Islam was spread by the sword. Bernardo was a narcissist & scored high as a psychopath. Hitler didn't favor organized religion of any kind. National Socialism preached total subservience to the State. Every citizen was expected to dedicate their existence to Germany. Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer. No place for God. He never persecuted Christianity but never aided it much either. I think he expected religion to whither and die in his Thousand Year Reich. And he sure as Hell wanted nothing to do with Islam. Not when the First Pillar of Islam reads "There is no deity but God and Muhammad is his messenger".
The swastika was becoming an anti-Semitic symbol in Wilhelmine Germany before the Great War. When the term "Aryan" was used for non-Jewish whites. It was Hitler who designed the Nazi flag, black swastika, tilted, on a white circle with a red banner.
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Post by amyghost on Apr 24, 2024 13:18:16 GMT
Raiders was pretty far off. Most of the 'occult' obsessions of Hitler's Third Reich centered more around junk science and absurd theories of race and genetics. When supposedly occult content entered into it, Hitler was usually at the ready to endorse it with 'scientific' pedigree. www.historynet.com/obsessed-with-the-occult/
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transfuged
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Post by transfuged on Apr 25, 2024 0:25:10 GMT
You ask for doubt then you cry woolf when you are the subject of doubt ? We are talking quite different types of doubt here. No one doubts my existence. That is different from doubting my sincerity, even when in such cases as personal philosophy it is better to take a person at their word. You ought to know this. I have to say questioning my views as genuine after a record of years on this board, its predecessor, as well as elsewhere posting with a clear and consistent worldview is one of the silliest objections I have come across. (And remains an attack on me, rather than what I say) I note elsewhere recently you wrote a long paragraph about an unrequited crush on a colleague at work. Nobody then was so ungracious as to contest the story. I just chose a characteristic passage of prose as an example. See where I said just earlier about "your often jumbled prose. Ultimately the problems with grammar, spelling and sense" ? I do. If anyone else reading this considers your efforts a model of clear prose writing, by all means let them now speak up. I am not saying that such issues mean that you are necessarily wrong, just hard to follow. For instance just lately where you appeared to swing like a weather vane over whether mass killing etc is to be condemned outright or where an exception is to be made for those who think they act in the name of God. Sorry love, got no time for this now. The question is clear, about the one post in this threat, before you butchered it. No doubt you love the couch. Xxx
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Apr 25, 2024 9:52:59 GMT
We are talking quite different types of doubt here. No one doubts my existence. That is different from doubting my sincerity, even when in such cases as personal philosophy it is better to take a person at their word. You ought to know this. I have to say questioning my views as genuine after a record of years on this board, its predecessor, as well as elsewhere posting with a clear and consistent worldview is one of the silliest objections I have come across. (And remains an attack on me, rather than what I say) I note elsewhere recently you wrote a long paragraph about an unrequited crush on a colleague at work. Nobody then was so ungracious as to contest the story. I just chose a characteristic passage of prose as an example. See where I said just earlier about "your often jumbled prose. Ultimately the problems with grammar, spelling and sense" ? I do. If anyone else reading this considers your efforts a model of clear prose writing, by all means let them now speak up. I am not saying that such issues mean that you are necessarily wrong, just hard to follow. For instance just lately where you appeared to swing like a weather vane over whether mass killing etc is to be condemned outright or where an exception is to be made for those who think they act in the name of God. Sorry love, got no time for this now. The question is clear, about the one post in this threat, before you butchered it. No doubt you love the couch. Xxxx Thank you for addressing in full all the points I have raised.
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Post by amyghost on Apr 25, 2024 11:44:40 GMT
Sorry love, got no time for this now. The question is clear, about the one post in this threat, before you butchered it. No doubt you love the couch. Xxxx Thank you for addressing in full all the points I have raised. A succinct summation of exactly why I put Transfuged on block some weeks back. Simply not worth the bother, on any level.
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transfuged
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Post by transfuged on Apr 25, 2024 15:57:49 GMT
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Apr 25, 2024 18:34:28 GMT
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transfuged
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Post by transfuged on Apr 25, 2024 23:51:42 GMT
In a debate, advocating doubt while refusing others to doubt our own convictions may seem contradictory Here are some reflections on the subject:
The right to doubt: Every individual has the right to doubt and question the beliefs of others, just as they have the right to maintain and defend their own convictions
Consistency: If we encourage skepticism, it would be consistent to accept that others may also question our own beliefs or their absence
Mutual respect: Even if we firmly defend our ideas, it is important to respect others' right to express their skepticism, as long as it is done respectfully and without personal attack
Ultimately, a balance between defending one's own ideas and being open to others' doubt can contribute to a constructive and respectful dialogue.
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transfuged
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Post by transfuged on Apr 26, 2024 6:35:34 GMT
You missed my point...these people once believed but were evil. Other lesser known evil people believe. Do they get in to heaven? I think you & others like you miss the entire point of Pascal's Wager entirely. Blaise Pascal wasn't arguing that simply believing in God will get you into Heaven, & not believing in Him will damn you to hell. The point is, if you truly believe in God & obey His Commandments it will be better for you spiritually, whereas, denying God's Existence will put one's guard down where morale is concerned, & may be detrimental for you spiritually. The exact same point is made in Psalm 14, verse 1, where it says "The fool has said in his heart, there is no God....". That Bible verse is often quoted by Evangelical & fundamentalist Protestants towards atheists. They too, miss the point. Psalm 14 doesn't say that everybody who does not believe in God is a fool. Psalm 14 begins off with the fool. When a person denies the Supreme Being, they deny His Rule, and thereby allow their guard down spiritually, & their morale with it. I beg to differ. Traditionally when a person allow their guard down spiritually, & their morale with it, they do wrong, behave wrong as they do no behave in a good Christian way anymore and salute should be denied to them. But. But there is the question of grace. Not in Pascal wager’s text. But in Pascal other writings or how he got read by others. He was not a declared reformist, though he was not a fool either. When he embraced the ideas of Port royal, he opposed the traditions.
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transfuged
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Post by transfuged on Apr 26, 2024 7:22:32 GMT
Brittanica gnosticism This is smtg to read before and instead of resorting to discuss the late Herr Schickelgrüber. That criminal did not create antisemitism.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Apr 26, 2024 10:08:52 GMT
In a debate, advocating doubt while refusing others to doubt our own convictions may seem contradictory Here are some reflections on the subject: The right to doubt: Every individual has the right to doubt and question the beliefs of others, just as they have the right to maintain and defend their own convictions Consistency: If we encourage skepticism, it would be consistent to accept that others may also question our own beliefs or their absence Mutual respect: Even if we firmly defend our ideas, it is important to respect others' right to express their skepticism, as long as it is done respectfully and without personal attack Ultimately, a balance between defending one's own ideas and being open to others' doubt can contribute to a constructive and respectful dialogue. This is all fine and well, but there is a difference between questioning a person's beliefs and ideas compared to questioning a person's sincerity in holding them at all. All of that which you have cut and pasted above from somewhere refers to the former. Moreover one involves attacking the argument, the other attacking the person. In questioning my sincerity you are not respecting my right to express my doubts and thus fail the 'Mutual Respect' test, while ultimately it does not contribute to a 'respectful dialogue' since it can be taken as insulting. But hey, since you like this sort of thing then you will allow to doubt the sincerity of your doubting my sincerity. It could after all just be a distraction from having to answer points I have raised.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Apr 26, 2024 10:11:50 GMT
Traditionally when a person allow their guard down spiritually, & their morale with it, they do wrong, behave wrong as they do not behave in a good Christian way anymore and salute should be denied to them. i.e. only good Christians keep their spiritual guard and morale up This is a Scotsman.
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