bb15
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Post by bb15 on Feb 21, 2017 6:26:41 GMT
No problem. So you don't have any problems with Dark Matter, or are your expectations just lower for that show? I watch because of Jodelle Ferland, and because it airs during the summer when nothing else is on, but it's painfully bad sometimes. The action girl trope is taken beyond the extreme, beaten like a dead horse, resurrected, then beaten again on that show. There isn't a single episode without at least one scene showing 105-pound women beating the everliving hell out of heavily muscled men, to the point where I'm pretty sure Joseph Malozzi just gets off on it. There are also several references to being "intergalactic traders" and such, making it clear the writers of a science fiction show set in space don't understand what a galaxy is or appreciate its scale. Even in a series that ignores the laws of physics and has ships going light speed, it would still take something like 2.5 million years to reach the closest galaxy, which is more than 12 times the entire history of homo sapiens. Assuming there are other intelligent civilizations out there, entire species would rise and fall by the hundreds of thousands before someone could travel to Andromeda, make a trade, and return to the Milky Way. I'm a fan of the BSG reboot series and Star Trek, so obviously I don't mind if science fiction bends the rules of physics, but I admit it does annoy me when the creators and writers behind a science fiction show don't get basic stuff right. Dark Matter is a fairly simple space travel science fiction series. Sometimes simple is a nice change of pace. Like a basic Star Trek episode. - Season one of DM was like Firefly (a favorite of mine). Season 2 fell down in quality with the killing of 'One' who had the most interesting back story imo. Now the series is about the latest heist and it's not that good. But it's watchable as SF for me. - I watched just about every Star Trek live action episode and there were several stinkers along the way, I enjoy the genre. - As for a small woman beating up big men, Firefly and Serenity featured that. It's now a staple of action SF/superhero/fantasy TV/film. Can 5 foot 3 inch (1.6 meter) Scarlett Johansson (Black Widow) really beat up several big guys while tied to a chair (The Avengers)? Of course not. The action woman trope has become part of these genres in the last 15 years. - As for intergalactic traders, who knows what that means. The DM creators also did the Stargate series where artificial wormholes took the cast wherever they needed to go. Not a big deal for me whether this is an expression or if it literally happens. Imo at least, BB ;-)
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Feb 22, 2017 20:16:27 GMT
No problem. So you don't have any problems with Dark Matter, or are your expectations just lower for that show? I watch because of Jodelle Ferland, and because it airs during the summer when nothing else is on, but it's painfully bad sometimes. The action girl trope is taken beyond the extreme, beaten like a dead horse, resurrected, then beaten again on that show. There isn't a single episode without at least one scene showing 105-pound women beating the everliving hell out of heavily muscled men, to the point where I'm pretty sure Joseph Malozzi just gets off on it. There are also several references to being "intergalactic traders" and such, making it clear the writers of a science fiction show set in space don't understand what a galaxy is or appreciate its scale. Even in a series that ignores the laws of physics and has ships going light speed, it would still take something like 2.5 million years to reach the closest galaxy, which is more than 12 times the entire history of homo sapiens. Assuming there are other intelligent civilizations out there, entire species would rise and fall by the hundreds of thousands before someone could travel to Andromeda, make a trade, and return to the Milky Way. I'm a fan of the BSG reboot series and Star Trek, so obviously I don't mind if science fiction bends the rules of physics, but I admit it does annoy me when the creators and writers behind a science fiction show don't get basic stuff right. Dark Matter is a fairly simple space travel science fiction series. Sometimes simple is a nice change of pace. Like a basic Star Trek episode. - Season one of DM was like Firefly (a favorite of mine). Season 2 fell down in quality with the killing of 'One' who had the most interesting back story imo. Now the series is about the latest heist and it's not that good. But it's watchable as SF for me. - I watched just about every Star Trek live action episode and there were several stinkers along the way, I enjoy the genre. - As for a small woman beating up big men, Firefly and Serenity featured that. It's now a staple of action SF/superhero/fantasy TV/film. Can 5 foot 3 inch (1.6 meter) Scarlett Johansson (Black Widow) really beat up several big guys while tied to a chair (The Avengers)? Of course not. The action woman trope has become part of these genres in the last 15 years.- As for intergalactic traders, who knows what that means. The DM creators also did the Stargate series where artificial wormholes took the cast wherever they needed to go. Not a big deal for me whether this is an expression or if it literally happens. Imo at least, BB ;-) The Action woman trope has always been part of these genres but it's use has increased to record levels in the last 23 years starting with "Hercules: The Legendary Journeys" and "Xena: Warrior Princess".
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bb15
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Post by bb15 on Feb 23, 2017 3:02:14 GMT
Dark Matter is a fairly simple space travel science fiction series. Sometimes simple is a nice change of pace. Like a basic Star Trek episode. - Season one of DM was like Firefly (a favorite of mine). Season 2 fell down in quality with the killing of 'One' who had the most interesting back story imo. Now the series is about the latest heist and it's not that good. But it's watchable as SF for me. - I watched just about every Star Trek live action episode and there were several stinkers along the way, I enjoy the genre. - As for a small woman beating up big men, Firefly and Serenity featured that. It's now a staple of action SF/superhero/fantasy TV/film. Can 5 foot 3 inch (1.6 meter) Scarlett Johansson (Black Widow) really beat up several big guys while tied to a chair (The Avengers)? Of course not. The action woman trope has become part of these genres in the last 15 years.- As for intergalactic traders, who knows what that means. The DM creators also did the Stargate series where artificial wormholes took the cast wherever they needed to go. Not a big deal for me whether this is an expression or if it literally happens. Imo at least, BB ;-) The Action woman trope has always been part of these genres but it's use has increased to record levels in the last 23 years starting with "Hercules: The Legendary Journeys" and "Xena: Warrior Princess". Agreed. Going way back there was also the Wonder Woman TV series. Besides those pioneering TV shows that you mentioned, I'd also say that Ripley in the Alien movies was a pioneer and then Sarah Connor in Terminator 2 as well as La Femme Nikita. And then the idea took off in the 2000s with The Matrix films, Firefly/Serenity, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Eowen in Lord of the Rings: Return of the King, Mystique in X-Men, Tomb Raider, Underworld, Resident Evil, Salt, Kill Bill 1&2, The Girl with the Dragon Tatoo, and continuing with The Hunger Games, Divergent, Fury Road, Gamora in Guardians, Black Widow in the Avengers, Rey in The Force Awakens and Wonder Woman coming back to DC films. The action woman trope is just standard stuff now. Imo at least, BB ;-)
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Post by xystophoros on Feb 23, 2017 8:00:28 GMT
I love Alien and I think Ripley is an iconic science fiction character. Also loved Kate Beckindale as Selene in the Underworld films. The problem I have with Dark Matter is that every episode features a scene involving a tiny woman beating the hell out of entire groups of men. Some episodes have three or four of those scenes, between Two, the Android and Nyx. It's gotten to the point of self parody.
I really do think the showrunner has some sort of fetish for this stuff, that's how constant it is on his show. And I do believe that, to an extent, part of the explosion of the Action Girl trope is because directors, showrunners and networks are loathe to show men hitting women, so any time a man squares off with a woman (which is constantly these days), the man always has to lose because he cannot land a blow, or cannot land anything that looks like a punch for fear of upsetting advertisers and pressure groups.
We don't want to show violence toward women. I get that. I also fully understand how bad domestic violence can be. But I wonder if we're not contributing to the problem by raising an entire generation of kids who think women are the physical equal of men. As a kid growing up in the late 80s/90s it was unthinkable to hit a girl or get into a fight with a girl. Now YouTube is filled with videos where girls are the aggressors, and when they push it too far and really hurt the guy they're attacking, it never ends well.
There's one video where a college girl slaps a guy in the face twice and then punches him flush in the face. The last strike drew blood and appeared to really hurt the guy, so he responds on instinct, decks her, and it takes 20 minutes just for her to get up. And when she does finally get up, her friends have to support her she's so wobbly. The video clearly shows the girl starting the confrontation, turning it physical, and receiving no retaliation from the guy -- but he was the one who got prosecuted for hitting her back after she hit him for the third time. That's not a good situation for anyone.
Anyway didn't mean to drag this off topic. Is anyone caught up on The Expanse yet? Tonight's episode was crazy and I'm wondering how people reacted to it. If anyone is caught up, please use the spoiler tag so we don't ruin it for our friends who are still working their way through. Cheers.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Feb 23, 2017 14:51:44 GMT
The Action woman trope has always been part of these genres but it's use has increased to record levels in the last 23 years starting with "Hercules: The Legendary Journeys" and "Xena: Warrior Princess". Agreed. Going way back there was also the Wonder Woman TV series. Besides those pioneering TV shows that you mentioned, I'd also say that Ripley in the Alien movies was a pioneer and then Sarah Connor in Terminator 2 as well as La Femme Nikita. And then the idea took off in the 2000s with The Matrix films, Firefly/Serenity, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Eowen in Lord of the Rings: Return of the King, Mystique in X-Men, Tomb Raider, Underworld, Resident Evil, Salt, Kill Bill 1&2, The Girl with the Dragon Tatoo, and continuing with The Hunger Games, Divergent, Fury Road, Gamora in Guardians, Black Widow in the Avengers, Rey in The Force Awakens and Wonder Woman coming back to DC films. The action woman trope is just standard stuff now. Imo at least, BB ;-) I agree completely. There are also many, many earlier examples like Buffy, Charlie's Angels, the Bionic Woman, Emma Peel and others going back even further. The recent explosion has happened because, in this day of niche audience, producers have realized there is an audience for action women. The audience is made up of a few women and a significant number of men who are attracted to "Action Women".
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bb15
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Post by bb15 on Feb 24, 2017 7:58:13 GMT
I love Alien and I think Ripley is an iconic science fiction character. Also loved Kate Beckindale as Selene in the Underworld films. The problem I have with Dark Matter is that every episode features a scene involving a tiny woman beating the hell out of entire groups of men. Some episodes have three or four of those scenes, between Two, the Android and Nyx. It's gotten to the point of self parody. I really do think the showrunner has some sort of fetish for this stuff, that's how constant it is on his show. And I do believe that, to an extent, part of the explosion of the Action Girl trope is because directors, showrunners and networks are loathe to show men hitting women, so any time a man squares off with a woman (which is constantly these days), the man always has to lose because he cannot land a blow, or cannot land anything that looks like a punch for fear of upsetting advertisers and pressure groups. We don't want to show violence toward women. I get that. I also fully understand how bad domestic violence can be. But I wonder if we're not contributing to the problem by raising an entire generation of kids who think women are the physical equal of men. As a kid growing up in the late 80s/90s it was unthinkable to hit a girl or get into a fight with a girl. Now YouTube is filled with videos where girls are the aggressors, and when they push it too far and really hurt the guy they're attacking, it never ends well. There's one video where a college girl slaps a guy in the face twice and then punches him flush in the face. The last strike drew blood and appeared to really hurt the guy, so he responds on instinct, decks her, and it takes 20 minutes just for her to get up. And when she does finally get up, her friends have to support her she's so wobbly. The video clearly shows the girl starting the confrontation, turning it physical, and receiving no retaliation from the guy -- but he was the one who got prosecuted for hitting her back after she hit him for the third time. That's not a good situation for anyone. Anyway didn't mean to drag this off topic. Is anyone caught up on The Expanse yet? Tonight's episode was crazy and I'm wondering how people reacted to it. If anyone is caught up, please use the spoiler tag so we don't ruin it for our friends who are still working their way through. Cheers. First, a robot who just looks like a woman is not = to a biological woman or any human. In Dark Matter the robot is a machine (who happens to be played by a woman) and if such a machine actually existed in non fiction with perfect coordination, machine speed and mechanical strength, the robot would crush any human in a fight. Second, I think your argument is mixing the fantasy part of action with non fiction reality such as actual fighting or domestic situations. Action movies going as far back to the old serials were never realistic. A comedy spoof of how far the fantasy of action movies had gotten was in "Hot Shot Part Deux" where the hero piles up hundreds of dead bodies of the enemy. This also was part of the Bruce Lee Hong Kong films. No one man can beat 10 competent bad guys in a free for all fist fight. A woman action hero is just as unrealistic as what the male characters did before. - What has happened in entertainment culture imo is that woman athletes have become more popular with tennis and the Olympics. Women's MMA (martial arts) recently became popular. Audiences are just more entertained by seeing strong women. So, now female action heroes are more accepted now in films/TV. Imo at least, BB ;-)
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Post by bb15 on Feb 24, 2017 8:14:27 GMT
Back to the series, this is where I've gotten with "The Expanse" so far. After some "Dark Matter" simple entertainment, I came back to "The Expanse" and again did my homework with episode 7, "Windmills". Episode 7 shows the viewer that there are no heroes in this series yet. And the story has more long stretches which don't move things along very much. This continues the slice of life style of the show. I again needed to read up on the episode to clarify what I had watched. SPOILERS - Joe Miller, who was fired from his job, violently barges into a bar to confront OPA leader Anderson Dawes. Dawes likes Joe's angry attitude. Joe searches an apartment (Julie Mao's), doesn't find anything important, and he takes a necklace. Joe cashes in some money, says goodby to Octavia and is getting on a transport ship that is going to Eros. (This has to do with a shuttle from the Anubis going there?) Classic example of how vague this series can be. - The woman leader of the UN on earth, Chrisjen Avasarala goes to a farmhouse in the snow to visit James Holden's mother (who lives on a type of commune). There is chatting about Jimmy Holden's childhood. There are vague references to a history of extremism and then in the past mom asked Holden to leave. Holden keeps in touch with mom every couple of months. - Chrisjen Avasarala leaves walking in the snow. She is contacted by Errinwright who tells her that the spy (Kenzo Gabriel) has not reported in. Errinwright doesn't think that Holden is a terrorist leader but he wants to send a "black ops" team to get Holden (kill him?). Chrisjen doesn't seem happy about that. Errinwright knows that the Rocinante shuttle was changed by the OPA leader, Fred Johnson, so it looks like gas freighter. (A bit about the actress playing Chrisjen Avasarala. She often seems stiff and limited in her acting range imo.) - The freighter (Canterbury) survivors traveling in a shuttle from the Mars ship (Donnager) are now traveling in the Rocinante shuttle looking for Lionel Polanski, who may be a survivor of the Scopuli, an OPA ship. The Rocinante is contacted by a Mars patrol ship. (Patrols are more strict due to the Uncle Mateo incident.) The Rocinante crew notice that their ship is sending an unauthorized transmission. Amos investigates and finds the spy, (Kenzo Gabriel) and hits him and threatens to put him off the ship with no suit. Kenzo reveals to the crew he works for Davila Aerospatiale and he has been spying on Tycho Station. A Mars ship wants to board the Rocinante. That is bad because inside the shuttle does not look like a gas freighter. Kenzo tells the crew that they have hidden codes which will tell the Mars ship that the Rocinante is on a secret mission. Alex backs up this story. Then Amos and Holden go to the airlock. Amos is ready to shoot the Mars boarding party while Holden is going to shoot Amos. They discuss their messy situation where from Amos' view, there really isn't right or wrong, but just survival. Holden doesn't like that but his only response is to maybe kill Amos. Alex and Naomi get and transmit the secret codes and the Mars ship retreats. Later Holden tells Naomi to control Amos. Kenzo tries to sweet talk Holden but he continues his spying with his eye implant. Imo at least, BB ;-)
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klandersen
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Post by klandersen on Mar 2, 2017 15:41:38 GMT
When it first came out I watched the first 4 episodes. Enjoyed some of it, but couldn't get into it. It felt like a film noir in Space to me. Also a bit confusing at times. The promos made it look so interesting. Also the promos for Season 2 make it look really enjoyable. Given time maybe I'll revisit it, maybe not.
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Post by maxwellperfect on Mar 2, 2017 19:11:42 GMT
It's my favorite show currently airing new episodes. I love the depth and detail of the story-universe. I feel they've been teasing the "system at the brink of war" thing long enough; I expect things to blow up pretty soon. I have to say that for the most part I think the individual characters are the weakest aspect of this show and the actress who plays Chrisjen isn't quite nailing how hardcore her character is supposed to be.
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bb15
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Post by bb15 on Mar 4, 2017 22:14:25 GMT
It's my favorite show currently airing new episodes. I love the depth and detail of the story-universe. I feel they've been teasing the "system at the brink of war" thing long enough; I expect things to blow up pretty soon. I have to say that for the most part I think the individual characters are the weakest aspect of this show and the actress who plays Chrisjen isn't quite nailing how hardcore her character is supposed to be. Agreed about a lot of this. Still favorite wouldn't be how I'd describe The Expanse. I'm watching it because I really like space travel sci-fi TV. So I'm seeing this and Dark Matter. * I agree about the teasing. The plot is moving along very slowly by using a day in the life way of telling the story. SPOILERS for episode 8; The shuttle crew search a deserted ship for 20 minutes and find some strange thing growing on the reactor and on the instruments. They run out of the deserted ship, get to a safe distance and then blow the deserted ship away. No more questions about the strange phenomenon on the deserted ship. The crew go to a space station looking for someone for another 20 minutes. They get into a shoot out at the station hotel with unknown opponents. The crew find the room where the person was supposed to be staying; they enter the room and they find a dead body in the shower. End of episode. - There are bits of information mixed into all of this (for instance the shuttle crew meet Joe Miller) but it all happens very gradually. * "I feel they've been teasing the "system at the brink of war" thing long enough; I expect things to blow up pretty soon."Agreed that the story has been stretched out long enough. Maybe the real antagonists/villains will be known in season 2? The writers don't seem to be in any hurry to get to that in season 1 (through episode 8 at least). * "the actress who plays Chrisjen isn't quite nailing how hardcore her character is supposed to be."Yes, I have not been impressed by the range of that actress. Often times she can appear stiff. I also think that the writing isn't consistent about her. Sometimes the story has her coming across as being cold blooded. Then the story will shift where she is becoming more compassionate.
* the individual characters are the weakest aspect of this show Agreed, and to me, except for Chrisjen, the actors are fine. The problem imo is through eight episodes none of the main characters have a clear motivation. Joe Miller is looking for Julie Mao and he's not sure why.
Holden goes from one event to another. The UN leaders don't have an overall plan. And the OPA leaders talk about change but they aren't clearly doing anything to make the change happen. - All the main characters are reacting to events. And as far as the stealth attack goes, no one knows (including the viewer) who did it or why. imo at least, BB ;-)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 1:09:41 GMT
If people want to post spoilers and want to characterize them as such, we do have spoiler tags. Just type [ then the word spoiler then ]; type your text then type [/ and the word spoiler again then ] and you'll get this: example
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 1:12:51 GMT
I just finished binge-watching five season 2 episodes and I'm now caught-up with the live show, ready for S1E7 this Wednesday. I'm loving the show. I did read the books and I think it's a very faithful adaptation of the books, better than most book-series-made-into-TV-Sci-Fi out there.
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Post by bb15 on Mar 6, 2017 6:56:53 GMT
News for anyone waiting for when the story becomes much less vague. This occurs in season 1 episode 9 "Critical Mass".
If a viewer gets that far, then things will make sense.
Imo BB ;-)
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bb15
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Post by bb15 on Mar 6, 2017 7:10:10 GMT
If people want to post spoilers and want to characterize them as such, we do have spoiler tags. Just type [ then the word spoiler then ]; type your text then type [/ and the word spoiler again then ] and you'll get this: example One thing to add; the preview feature will not show that the spoiler tag is working. The comment has to be posted/created. Imo at least, BB ;-)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 11:09:21 GMT
If people want to post spoilers and want to characterize them as such, we do have spoiler tags. Just type [ then the word spoiler then ]; type your text then type [/ and the word spoiler again then ] and you'll get this: example One thing to add; the preview feature will not show that the spoiler tag is working. The comment has to be posted/created. Imo at least, BB ;-) That is correct
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bb15
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Post by bb15 on Mar 8, 2017 9:08:03 GMT
When it first came out I watched the first 4 episodes. Enjoyed some of it, but couldn't get into it. It felt like a film noir in Space to me. Also a bit confusing at times. The promos made it look so interesting. Also the promos for Season 2 make it look really enjoyable. Given time maybe I'll revisit it, maybe not. The key (to me) is getting to episode 9, "Critical Mass". I've finished season 1. As I've written before, getting through episodes 1 though 8 was difficult for me. In episode 9 the story comes together. From then on it's not a stretched out mystery where none of the main characters know what's going on. Imo at least, BB ;-)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2017 11:24:06 GMT
In the books, the big twist that makes everything come together is much later. The TV show is doing a very good job, being very faithful to the books. I guarantee to non-book readers that it will be satisfactory. Keep watching.
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ironjade
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Post by ironjade on Mar 16, 2017 13:03:05 GMT
I love how Jared Harris' character appears to be channelling Benny Hill's comic Chinaman: "Sirry Iriot!" It must be quite a strain keeping it going.
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uriel
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Post by uriel on Mar 16, 2017 13:41:15 GMT
Great show. Can't believe so many people are complaining about it in this thread. We get a big budget space series on SyFt with strong writing and acting and writing at last and people still aren't happy.
The books have gone downhill (reading book 6 at the moment and literally NOTHING has happened in the first half of it) so hopefully the show doesn't stay too faithful.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 18:12:37 GMT
Great show. Can't believe so many people are complaining about it in this thread. We get a big budget space series on SyFt with strong writing and acting and writing at last and people still aren't happy. The books have gone downhill (reading book 6 at the moment and literally NOTHING has happened in the first half of it) so hopefully the show doesn't stay too faithful. The show is great. I read the books to a certain point and frankly I don't recall which one was the last one I read. I liked all the books that I did read until I stopped. I guess I was waiting for the next one then never remembered to buy it. It could be the case that I only read three books.
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