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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 4, 2017 4:05:45 GMT
MCU's done team ups before, Odin dying is a logical part of the Thor story and a female villain isn't something new. 1 ) and they were ABs then, too 2 ) still an AB 3 ) it is for MCU films 1) Actually, the team up aspects were held against the prior movies. 2) Natural part of the story. Like the Waynes dying in a Batman film. 3) If anything, it's held against it thanks to Enchantress from SS. Ragnarok had a lot running AGAINST it more than anything boosting it.
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Post by scabab on Nov 4, 2017 4:10:24 GMT
formersamhmd1. What bad taste? I have never once seen anyone say or imply that a movie can not receive criticism because a star in it died recently. Paul Walker died and that was a huge deal but that didn't help it get significantly better reviews than Fast 5. That's not #4 on IMDB's Top 250. 2. What plot failures? 3. He was never omnipotent that doesn't even make sense. He just planned accordingly to a high level because he's supposed to be an incredibly smart person. Two Face wasn't a waste because the movie wasn't about Two Face. It was more about Harvey. Two Face was just an end result and one last piece in a big plan.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 4:12:32 GMT
scabab: Yeah, it's not like the third film couldn't have featured Two-Face.[/sarcasm]
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 4, 2017 4:14:04 GMT
formersamhmd 1. What bad taste? I have never once seen anyone say or imply that a movie can not receive criticism because a star in it died recently. There were people saying that the Joker should be retired from all media due to Ledger. That's how fanatical they were over the whole Ledger thing. If they'll say that, they won't allow for genuine criticisms of the movie. The FF movies weren't as crazy hyped as TDK was, nor is their fanbase as fanatical as Nolans'. We've been over this. No one could be as all-powerful and all-knowing as him unless they're some kind of superhuman. TDK Joker was just some dirty hobo anarchist. Two Face is one of Batman's biggest enemies, you don't waste him by making him some plot device manipulation of the Jokers'.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Nov 4, 2017 4:14:51 GMT
1 ) and they were ABs then, too 2 ) still an AB 3 ) it is for MCU films the team up aspects were held against the prior moviesThey were? First time I have ever heard that. My friends were pretty excited to see them all together in the Avengers. I know I was, too.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 4:15:26 GMT
formersamhmd 1. What bad taste? I have never once seen anyone say or imply that a movie can not receive criticism because a star in it died recently. There were people saying that the Joker should be retired from all media due to Ledger. That's how fanatical they were over the whole Ledger thing. If they'll say that, they won't allow for genuine criticisms of the movie. The FF movies weren't as crazy hyped as TDK was, nor is their fanbase as fanatical as Nolans'. We've been over this. No one could be as all-powerful and all-knowing as him unless they're some kind of superhuman. TDK Joker was just some dirty hobo anarchist. Two Face is one of Batman's biggest enemies, you don't waste him by making him some plot device manipulation of the Jokers'. Here's one: a huge portion of film could have been trimmed down by just having Batman stop Lau (the Chinese mob money guy) at the airport and used for more worthwhile things.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 4:16:15 GMT
the team up aspects were held against the prior movies They were? First time I have ever heard that. My friends were pretty excited to see them all together in the Avengers. I know I was, too. I remember people giving previous Marvel team-ups a hard time, too.
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 4, 2017 4:19:35 GMT
the team up aspects were held against the prior movies They were? First time I have ever heard that. My friends were pretty excited to see them all together in the Avengers. I know I was, too. Nope, it was seen as a bad idea that would bring down the Studio because there was no way they could make a movie featuring that many characters and be watchable. The simple idea of heroes teaming up was being ripped into as early as Iron Man 2.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Nov 4, 2017 4:21:36 GMT
They were? First time I have ever heard that. My friends were pretty excited to see them all together in the Avengers. I know I was, too. I remember people giving previous Marvel team-ups a hard time, too. I believe you, I just have never heard that before. Quite the opposite, in fact. I mean, wasn't the fact that they were even allowed to team up in the first place always put forward as a huge plus and a big selling point?
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Nov 4, 2017 4:22:30 GMT
They were? First time I have ever heard that. My friends were pretty excited to see them all together in the Avengers. I know I was, too. Nope, it was seen as a bad idea that would bring down the Studio because there was no way they could make a movie featuring that many characters and be watchable. The simple idea of heroes teaming up was being ripped into as early as Iron Man 2. I have literally never heard that, even once.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 4:24:15 GMT
I remember people giving previous Marvel team-ups a hard time, too. I believe you, I just have never heard that before. Quite the opposite, in fact. I mean, wasn't the fact that they were even allowed to team up in the first place always put forward as a huge plus and a big selling point? I think people were torn on the issue. I remember a ton of arguing about it on the old IMDb boards and some other places. That was back before the boards closed down, so I don't exactly remember all the particulars. The fact some people are still so against the idea of superhero team-ups is flabbergasting at this point.
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 4, 2017 4:27:25 GMT
Nope, it was seen as a bad idea that would bring down the Studio because there was no way they could make a movie featuring that many characters and be watchable. The simple idea of heroes teaming up was being ripped into as early as Iron Man 2. I have literally never heard that, even once. I sure have. In fact, I used to get into arguments with the XCU fans who hated how the movies referenced one another because they thought CBMs should be 100% standalone except in direct sequels. IE, there should be absolutely no references to Iron Man or Cap in a Hulk movies no matter how minor the references are. That sort of stuff.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Nov 4, 2017 4:28:01 GMT
I believe you, I just have never heard that before. Quite the opposite, in fact. I mean, wasn't the fact that they were even allowed to team up in the first place always put forward as a huge plus and a big selling point? I think people were torn on the issue. I remember a ton of arguing about it on the old IMDb boards and some other places. That was back before the boards closed down, so I don't exactly remember all the particulars. The fact some people are still so against the idea of superhero team-ups is flabbergasting at this point. Yeah, I am shocked to hear it. I would think, as one example, that most people who have even a passing interest in DC characters are pretty interested in seeing JL. Personally, I have been waiting to see a "Superfriends" film for decades!
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Nov 4, 2017 4:29:15 GMT
I have literally never heard that, even once. I sure have. In fact, I used to get into arguments with the XCU fans who hated how the movies referenced one another because they thought CBMs should be 100% standalone except in direct sequels. IE, there should be absolutely no references to Iron Man or Cap in a Hulk movies no matter how minor the references are. That sort of stuff. Huh. Weird. Oh well, I guess they all feel pretty dumb now!
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Post by scabab on Nov 4, 2017 4:30:02 GMT
scabab : Yeah, it's not like the third film couldn't have featured Two-Face.[/sarcasm] Well of course not. The main point of the ending was that Two Face died and Batman took the blame so that nobody would know how Harvey actually turned out which would have meant all the criminals would have been released. Why would he have stopped him at the airport? He'd already gone back to China before they wanted him. That was the whole reason why Dent and Gordon called in Batman so he could get him back otherwise the police would have just stopped him at the airport. formersamhmd1. Again a very very minor amount of fans on the internet. Which is of course worthless because there people who say anything and everything on the internet. 2. The Dark Knight was crazy hyped for a reason because it's predecessor Batman Begins was itself consider ped a fantastic movie and the best Superhero movie that had been made at the time it came out. 3. Of course he's a dirty hobo anarchist, he cut his face open and burnt money. If he were actually omnipotent then the boat would have blown up at the end. 4. Two Face as just Two Face is a little one dimensional. He's not really main villain worthy. That's why he also played second fiddle to The Riddler in Batman Forever and never really got to be the big bad himself....really in anything important.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 4:30:02 GMT
I think people were torn on the issue. I remember a ton of arguing about it on the old IMDb boards and some other places. That was back before the boards closed down, so I don't exactly remember all the particulars. The fact some people are still so against the idea of superhero team-ups is flabbergasting at this point. Yeah, I am shocked to hear it. I would think, as one example, that most people who have even a passing interest in DC characters are pretty interested in seeing JL. Personally, I have been waiting to see a "Superfriends" film for decades! Same. I wish we were getting a JL movie under better circumstances, though.
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 4, 2017 4:30:07 GMT
I think people were torn on the issue. I remember a ton of arguing about it on the old IMDb boards and some other places. That was back before the boards closed down, so I don't exactly remember all the particulars. The fact some people are still so against the idea of superhero team-ups is flabbergasting at this point. Yeah, I am shocked to hear it. I would think, as one example, that most people who have even a passing interest in DC characters are pretty interested in seeing JL. Personally, I have been waiting to see a "Superfriends" film for decades! They may have been happy to consider JL, but if MARVEL dared try it then it had to be a bad idea...
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 4, 2017 4:32:59 GMT
scabab : Yeah, it's not like the third film couldn't have featured Two-Face.[/sarcasm] Well of course not. The main point of the ending was that Two Face died and Batman took the blame so that nobody would know how Harvey actually turned out which would have meant all the criminals would have been released. That whole notion that Harvey going insane would somehow mean all the criminals would have to be released was dumb too. They could easily spin it in a way that kept his prior cases valid. formersamhmd It still happened to the MCU and not the XCU or DCEU. Because Nolan had a crazy hype machine behind him, and then Ledger made it untouchable. So he's omnipotent until the plot suddenly decides he isn't. Lazy writing. Nonsense.
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Post by scabab on Nov 4, 2017 4:48:54 GMT
formersamhmd1. If people were convicted by a fellow cop killer who had a splintered personality then all those who were convicted would naturally be released. 2. Because they haven't been in a similar scenario. When Robert Downey Jr quits being Iron Man or Chris Evans quits being Captain America then those might be said. When they eventually recast Wolverine you will see the exact same comments. 3. Directors don't get hype machines for nothing. If he has one then it's obviously because he warranted it. He wasn't really all that big before The Dark Knight either as the Prestige wasn't that big of a movie. 4. Like villains in most movies then where they are successful throughout the movie up until the end when they lose for one reason or another. 5. When has he been a main villain? He wasn't in Batman Forever or The Dark Knight. He was in Batman Arkham City and Arkham Knight in a side villain role. He's never been a main villain in the many Batman animated movies that they've made. In the cartoon, in the episodes where they had multiple villains, The Joker was always the main one. Two Face has never been main villain material in anything.
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Post by formersamhmd on Nov 4, 2017 13:17:41 GMT
formersamhmd 1. If people were convicted by a fellow cop killer who had a splintered personality then all those who were convicted would naturally be released. Not if it was clear his actions were due to brain damage he got from an accident later on, which is how Gordon could EASILY spin it. Just make Harvey another victim of Joker and say he was brain damaged the whole time. Nope, the MCU has ALWAYS been more harshly treated than anyone else. Including the DCEU. Some do. Not when they're portrayed as absolutely omnipotent as TDK Joker was. The comics and cartoon shows.
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