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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2017 20:48:39 GMT
The frustrating part is that overall, things just need a minor tweak...throughout all of the Snyder DCEU films. That would be fine, but there needed to be a payoff where he becomes accepted as Superman, and seen as a beacon of hope. There are some things you just DON'T say "Maybe" to, even if you don't mean it that way. Those were the kids of Pa Kent's friends and neighbors. The filmmakers needed to be absolutely sure no one would get the wrong idea about the scene, and I'm sure those of us who criticize it do. You only say "Maybe" if you're considering saying "Yes." I could have forgiven it had they actually used it a springboard to make Superman act more like Superman, but come BvS, he acts even LESS like Superman. Exactly. The film should have been "Batman and Superman", not "vs.". Exactly. They don't even have a way to kill him off for good now should Cavill decide to leave and they don't want to recast.
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Post by Larcen26 on Nov 22, 2017 20:49:15 GMT
I did kind of chuckle when Superman pauses the fight at the end and goes "Civilians!" Reminded me of the "That part of the city is unpopulated" lines from BvS. Still, that's more on the first two films for making Superman stopping a fight to help people seem tacked on. Exactly. He's never cared who got hurt in his fights before. The only reason to make him care now is to appease fans. I kind-of disagree here. Not that the parts are tacked on...they definitely are. It's just another misunderstanding of the characters and storytelling. The Avengers probably had thousands of Civilian casualties. But the Avengers made sure they did whatever they could to save as many as possible. It gave the fight real stakes beyond the "evil thingy in the sky". What everyone took issue with in MoS was that Superman never seemed to care. My #1 criticism in the entire DCEU up until now (and it's still kinda true after JL) is that Superman is never shown saving a single Non-Lois person while wearing the Superman suit. He flies into frame with a rocket (no people shown) and with one woman. He is never shown actually saving them...just landing with them. The single most "Superman" scene in the entire DCEU is the Oil Rig in MoS...and at that point he is far from being Superman. So I think he should have cared...but it should have been written better.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2017 20:55:13 GMT
Exactly. He's never cared who got hurt in his fights before. The only reason to make him care now is to appease fans. I kind-of disagree here. Not that the parts are tacked on...they definitely are. It's just another misunderstanding of the characters and storytelling. The Avengers probably had thousands of Civilian casualties. But the Avengers made sure they did whatever they could to save as many as possible. It gave the fight real stakes beyond the "evil thingy in the sky". What everyone took issue with in MoS was that Superman never seemed to care. My #1 criticism in the entire DCEU up until now (and it's still kinda true after JL) is that Superman is never shown saving a single Non-Lois person while wearing the Superman suit. He flies into frame with a rocket (no people shown) and with one woman. He is never shown actually saving them...just landing with them. The single most "Superman" scene in the entire DCEU is the Oil Rig in MoS...and at that point he is far from being Superman. So I think he should have cared...but it should have been written better. So where's your disagreement with my assertion here? This makes it look like you agree with me.
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Post by Larcen26 on Nov 22, 2017 20:59:18 GMT
There are some things you just DON'T say "Maybe" to, even if you don't mean it that way. Those were the kids of Pa Kent's friends and neighbors. The filmmakers needed to be absolutely sure no one would get the wrong idea about the scene, and I'm sure those of us who criticize it do. You only say "Maybe" if you're considering saying "Yes." As I said, and I don't want to derail the post, I have always been OK with this...because I think he did consider saying "Yes" out of his love for Clark and fear of what the world would do to him. And I can't say I blame him...because if this were any other modern telling of the classic Sci-fi trope of "Family takes in alien and raises it" story, that's how they would have reacted. But because it was Superman and The Kents, it is looked at differently. And I'm not saying it's WRONG to think that, just that it never bothered me. The Kents still raised him right, but I never bought the idea that the Kents are the only reason he became Superman.
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Post by Larcen26 on Nov 22, 2017 20:59:59 GMT
I kind-of disagree here. Not that the parts are tacked on...they definitely are. It's just another misunderstanding of the characters and storytelling. The Avengers probably had thousands of Civilian casualties. But the Avengers made sure they did whatever they could to save as many as possible. It gave the fight real stakes beyond the "evil thingy in the sky". What everyone took issue with in MoS was that Superman never seemed to care. My #1 criticism in the entire DCEU up until now (and it's still kinda true after JL) is that Superman is never shown saving a single Non-Lois person while wearing the Superman suit. He flies into frame with a rocket (no people shown) and with one woman. He is never shown actually saving them...just landing with them. The single most "Superman" scene in the entire DCEU is the Oil Rig in MoS...and at that point he is far from being Superman. So I think he should have cared...but it should have been written better. So where's your disagreement with my assertion here? This makes it look like you agree with me. I disagree that he shouldn't have cared because he didn't in the past films.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2017 21:05:40 GMT
There are some things you just DON'T say "Maybe" to, even if you don't mean it that way. Those were the kids of Pa Kent's friends and neighbors. The filmmakers needed to be absolutely sure no one would get the wrong idea about the scene, and I'm sure those of us who criticize it do. You only say "Maybe" if you're considering saying "Yes." As I said, and I don't want to derail the post, I have always been OK with this...because I think he did consider saying "Yes" out of his love for Clark and fear of what the world would do to him. And I can't say I blame him...because if this were any other modern telling of the classic Sci-fi trope of "Family takes in alien and raises it" story, that's how they would have reacted. But because it was Superman and The Kents, it is looked at differently. And I'm not saying it's WRONG to think that, just that it never bothered me. The Kents still raised him right, but I never bought the idea that the Kents are the only reason he became Superman. I can blame him. The Kents are supposed to be the pillars that made Clark who he grew up to be. As Man of Steel tells it, he became Superman in spite of them. I'm wondering how exactly Pa Kent was expecting to be able to look his friends and neighbors in the eyes after that had Clark just let them all die like the sociopath the Kents obviously wanted him to be. Hell, it'd have been insult for them to attend the funeral. They did not raise him right. I don't care what you but, its the truth. He's a moral, good man who risks his life for others because of the example he learned at home.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2017 21:06:18 GMT
So where's your disagreement with my assertion here? This makes it look like you agree with me. I disagree that he shouldn't have cared because he didn't in the past films. I still find him breaking off a fight to prioritize innocent lives to be hard to swallow considering what we've seen of him before.
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Post by politicidal on Nov 23, 2017 16:33:30 GMT
They should have kept all these scenes with Steppenwolf.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Nov 23, 2017 17:19:32 GMT
Pretty sure these aren’t real. Laurence Fishburne never filmed any scenes for the movie.
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