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Post by cupcakes on Nov 27, 2017 21:09:17 GMT
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madmikev40
Sophomore
@madmikev40
Posts: 914
Likes: 69
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Post by madmikev40 on Nov 27, 2017 21:12:46 GMT
Yep you definitely are still a loser.
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Post by cupcakes on Nov 27, 2017 21:13:48 GMT
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Post by gadreel on Nov 27, 2017 21:15:20 GMT
tpfkar Yeah I had my suspicions as well, but I think Mike might be just a garden variety idiot. I didn't mean that Blade™, although we have had an opening for that particular brand of entertaining twit unfilled for some time. careless whispersThere are parts of me that think it might be him, but maybe I am just railing against more than one person being that much of a waste of resources.
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Post by gadreel on Nov 27, 2017 21:16:24 GMT
HE IS NOT A FUCKING KIWI. They steal all our good shit, the best they can do is not fob off their losers on us.
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madmikev40
Sophomore
@madmikev40
Posts: 914
Likes: 69
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Post by madmikev40 on Nov 27, 2017 21:17:56 GMT
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Post by cupcakes on Nov 27, 2017 21:19:03 GMT
tpfkar You've got to be a Palestinian-Kiwi. HE IS NOT A FUCKING KIWI. They steal all our good shit, the best they can do is not fob off their losers on us. Who else would want to make Australians with Israel fetishes appear to be so head-injured? not even remotely so in these parts
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Post by gadreel on Nov 27, 2017 21:21:32 GMT
tpfkar HE IS NOT A FUCKING KIWI. They steal all our good shit, the best they can do is not fob off their losers on us. Who else would want to make Australians with Israel fetishes appear to be so head-injured? not even remotely so in these partsNot buying it, he is too stupid for that kind of duplicity. For God's sake he thinks that no Christians served in World War Two.
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Post by cupcakes on Nov 27, 2017 21:36:50 GMT
tpfkar Why else would you want to make Australians with Israel fixations look so bad? "antisemite!"
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Post by THawk on Nov 27, 2017 22:39:04 GMT
...and churches who want to do that should be perfectly free to offer such services, while others should be free not to provide them. That's religious freedom. But as so many replies to this thread serve as a testament to, many people have no interest whatsoever as what counts as discrimination or freedom; they just see it as a platform to spew ridiculous, absurd anti-religious bigotry. It is pure hatred they are speaking out of, and that is what is at the center of so many of these cases. No one in factuality gives the slightest, most meager damn that a gay couple has to walk across the street to get their cake instead; it's all about using every available avenue to demonize religious people and purge faith from every aspect of society. Hence, hatred of religion and hatred of religious freedom. Oh and as a historical lesson, religion has been the building block of human civilization and the building factor that has built up everything, for good or for bad. Without religion humankind would still be swinging from the trees into feces-infested cave orgies. Which, to be perfectly honest.....seems to be exact wish of so much of secular society. Yes, the building block of human civilization, built on the backs of captured non-believers (Egypt) or by human sacrifice (Aztecs), ad nauseam. Religion has been used to control large groups of the have-nots by the haves. Napoleon said that religion was a fine thing to keep the common people quiet, someone else quoted that religion was what kept the poor from murdering the rich. A fine legacy, religion. Right, we heard you. Your dislike and belief that religion has brought nothing but evil to the world has been clearly established. The OP's question, albeit asked in an attacking matter, is not "tell me how much religion sucks" but "what is religious freedom.' A good Democracy is not defined by ideological purity, but by how well different and sometimes contrary ideas and beliefs coexist and are allowed to function in society. Even if you believe something is totally wrong and harmful, if you believe in Democracy, you have to believe in protecting religious and other kinds of freedom. Otherwise you are left with totalitarian regimes, such as China, that seek to repress religion at every step - while in effect still worshiping their own ideology.
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Post by Cinemachinery on Nov 27, 2017 22:53:28 GMT
Freedom of religion as described in the first amendment is entirely different from the notion of people using their democratic vote to drive the country in a different direction more in-line with their own religion.
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Post by cupcakes on Nov 27, 2017 22:53:40 GMT
tpfkar You accuse religion of doing something that governments do.
I wish theophobiacs could come up with a coherent argument regarding how they are forced to do stuff just because their feelings are occasionally hurt by those who not doing the examples they provide.
As an aside, the poor shouldn't murder the rich. It's as wrong ad the rich murdering the poor.
I'm ok with realityphobiacs trying to arlon-away infringement of basic rights and abiding nastiness. haters
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Post by goz on Nov 28, 2017 1:09:34 GMT
It seems to me to be a licence to be bigoted and discriminatory ! Here in Australia, the nation voted on whether to allow same sex marriage. Although ( unlike our regular political voting which is compulsory) this was a voluntary poll. over 80% of those eligible to vote, did so, and the result was a resounding 62% YES vote to allow changes to the legislation. The government will change the law HOWEVER NOW, all these religious nuts are coming out and demanding 'religious freedom' which actually has nothing to do with whether same sex couples are allowed to marry as all they are demanding is the civil ( not necessarily religious ) right to marry like everyone else and not be discriminated against as a group. This' religious freedom' seems to boil down to a 'right' to discriminate against these same sex couples, which is against our National Anti-Discrimination Laws in this country, so all the bigots are asking for an exemption. Is this bigotry and hatred and discrimination really what Jesus preached? ALL the law will do is change to allow same sex couples to marry. WTF has that got to do with anyone else except them achieving equal rights? No-one is stopping anyone from believing in their choice of religion. Well you are an enemy of religious freedom, that much is clear. People should be free not only to "believe" in thought what they want, but also to carry out their beliefs in society, as long as that doesn't directly physically harm other people. Conservatives, Muslims, Jews, Hindus etc everyone should be free to pray and carry whatever religious symbols they want to work and public places, and they should not be forced to provide their services for events that go against their beliefs, such as gay marriage. That is religious freedom, and you are against it. You want religious people shut down and banished from every single last aspect of society, and hope that their beliefs, and all of religion, eventually fade and disappear and go instinct. This is why the majority of straight secular gay marriage supporters don't actually give the slightest damn about gay marriage itself; their only real desire is to see religion dismantled. No, I am not an enemy of religious freedom. I recognise the right for people to believe in whatever they want AS LONG AS it doesn't harm or hinder the rights of others. You specified physical harm which is a very narrow definition. Gay couples getting married has nothing to do whatsoever with infringing religious people's rights to believe what they like or practice their religion as long as it does not inhibit the legal right of others. In the cases I am talking about, religious people are demanding exemptions to anti discrimination laws and permitting bigoted behaviour. Religious people believing that gay people are sinners or whatever DOES NOT give them the right to discriminate against them or persecute them in any way shape or form. A religious person's 'conscience' pertains ONLY to their own behaviour and perhaps that of others in their religious group and has nothing to do with secular laws and the human rights of others in society.
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Post by goz on Nov 28, 2017 1:27:53 GMT
This is the whole point of this thread. How and why can they both do that AND justify it? Essentially what gays do, especially getting married like everyone else can do, is none of their business. Again, in essence what makes them even think that they have the right to judge and discriminate against other people that they happen to disagree with? My answer? Their belief that their religion gives them some kind of advantage AND a 'god' given right to bigotry and discrimination because....religion/Jesus/interpretation of the BIble/intolerance of those who are different etc etc etc.
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Post by goz on Nov 28, 2017 1:32:22 GMT
Wrong! It is about the endorsement of their bulls<>t beliefs. Religion has been a scourge on society and civilization since kingdom come, yet they want the freedom to continue to be ignorant fools regarding what they believe to be the word of God and the truth. Let them, and same sex couples can get married by a celebrant or some other church that will allow them. Not all will discriminate. ...and churches who want to do that should be perfectly free to offer such services, while others should be free not to provide them. That's religious freedom. But as so many replies to this thread serve as a testament to, many people have no interest whatsoever as what counts as discrimination or freedom; they just see it as a platform to spew ridiculous, absurd anti-religious bigotry. It is pure hatred they are speaking out of, and that is what is at the center of so many of these cases. No one in factuality gives the slightest, most meager damn that a gay couple has to walk across the street to get their cake instead; it's all about using every available avenue to demonize religious people and purge faith from every aspect of society. Hence, hatred of religion and hatred of religious freedom. Oh and as a historical lesson, religion has been the building block of human civilization and the building factor that has built up everything, for good or for bad. Without religion humankind would still be swinging from the trees into feces-infested cave orgies. Which, to be perfectly honest.....seems to be exact wish of so much of secular society. We are talking about secular legal marriage here, not forcing religious unions for gay people. US has secular government as a foundation of it Constitution, and so does Australia, although we don't have a constitution as such. My only question is what gives religious people the right to get a free pass to practice bigotry and discrimination, which in Australia contravenes other laws. They want an exemption 'because'!
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Post by THawk on Nov 28, 2017 13:44:52 GMT
Well you are an enemy of religious freedom, that much is clear. People should be free not only to "believe" in thought what they want, but also to carry out their beliefs in society, as long as that doesn't directly physically harm other people. Conservatives, Muslims, Jews, Hindus etc everyone should be free to pray and carry whatever religious symbols they want to work and public places, and they should not be forced to provide their services for events that go against their beliefs, such as gay marriage. That is religious freedom, and you are against it. You want religious people shut down and banished from every single last aspect of society, and hope that their beliefs, and all of religion, eventually fade and disappear and go instinct. This is why the majority of straight secular gay marriage supporters don't actually give the slightest damn about gay marriage itself; their only real desire is to see religion dismantled. No, I am not an enemy of religious freedom. I recognise the right for people to believe in whatever they want AS LONG AS it doesn't harm or hinder the rights of others. You specified physical harm which is a very narrow definition. Gay couples getting married has nothing to do whatsoever with infringing religious people's rights to believe what they like or practice their religion as long as it does not inhibit the legal right of others. In the cases I am talking about, religious people are demanding exemptions to anti discrimination laws and permitting bigoted behaviour. Religious people believing that gay people are sinners or whatever DOES NOT give them the right to discriminate against them or persecute them in any way shape or form. A religious person's 'conscience' pertains ONLY to their own behaviour and perhaps that of others in their religious group and has nothing to do with secular laws and the human rights of others in society. First of all, arguing that not baking someone a wedding cake counts as "bigotry" or "discrimination" or "persecution" is beyond delusional and flat out wrong. Second of all, you "recognize the right of people to believe in whatever they want".....as in there is an alternative? Another option would be to hunt down people for their thoughts? Are you giving yourself credit for not being as bad as North Korea? This is not "religious freedom." And what you are saying then is that religious people do not have the right to take part in society whilst still holding true to their beliefs. "Discrimination" is infinitely subjective and is dictated by the cultural heavyweights, and that is why religious people will always be accused by secular people in this age of being "discriminatory." That is why the line should be physical harm to others, because it is the only clear, straight forward one.
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Post by cupcakes on Nov 28, 2017 14:33:41 GMT
tpfkar First of all, arguing that not baking someone a wedding cake counts as "bigotry" or "discrimination" or "persecution" is beyond delusional and flat out wrong. Second of all, you "recognize the right of people to believe in whatever they want".....as in there is an alternative? Another option would be to hunt down people for their thoughts? Are you giving yourself credit for not being as bad as North Korea? This is not "religious freedom." And what you are saying then is that religious people do not have the right to take part in society whilst still holding true to their beliefs. "Discrimination" is infinitely subjective and is dictated by the cultural heavyweights, and that is why religious people will always be accused by secular people in this age of being "discriminatory." That is why the line should be physical harm to others, because it is the only clear, straight forward one. Spoken like a true nasty, aggressive bigot who wants to have a nasty, balkanized marketplace. What customers do with product is their speech, not some cake-maker's. People can think what they want and express what they want, and can suffer the consequences of other people doing the same. And they can follow the rules of commerce. And aggressive nasty bullies can howl about their rights to be aggressive nasty bullies all day long. not even biblical
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Post by faustus5 on Nov 28, 2017 17:57:35 GMT
First of all, arguing that not baking someone a wedding cake counts as "bigotry" or "discrimination" or "persecution" is beyond delusional and flat out wrong. What is truly delusional is the way you knuckle-dragging freaks try to deny the obvious even after the legal battles have handed you your pathetic asses: yes, refusing a service to someone based on your prejudices is bigotry.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Nov 28, 2017 18:55:31 GMT
First of all, arguing that not baking someone a wedding cake counts as "bigotry" or "discrimination" or "persecution" is beyond delusional and flat out wrong. What is truly delusional is the way you knuckle-dragging freaks try to deny the obvious even after the legal battles have handed you your pathetic asses: yes, refusing a service to someone based on your prejudices is bigotry. Who are you describing as a knuckle dragging freak?
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Nov 28, 2017 22:10:48 GMT
Yes, the building block of human civilization, built on the backs of captured non-believers (Egypt) or by human sacrifice (Aztecs), ad nauseam. Religion has been used to control large groups of the have-nots by the haves. Napoleon said that religion was a fine thing to keep the common people quiet, someone else quoted that religion was what kept the poor from murdering the rich. A fine legacy, religion. Right, we heard you. Your dislike and belief that religion has brought nothing but evil to the world has been clearly established. The OP's question, albeit asked in an attacking matter, is not "tell me how much religion sucks" but "what is religious freedom.'
A good Democracy is not defined by ideological purity, but by how well different and sometimes contrary ideas and beliefs coexist and are allowed to function in society. Even if you believe something is totally wrong and harmful, if you believe in Democracy, you have to believe in protecting religious and other kinds of freedom. Otherwise you are left with totalitarian regimes, such as China, that seek to repress religion at every step - while in effect still worshiping their own ideology. I wasn't responding to the OP's question, I was responding to this statement of yours: Oh and as a historical lesson, religion has been the building block of human civilization and the building factor that has built up everything, for good or for bad. Without religion humankind would still be swinging from the trees into feces-infested cave orgies. Which, to be perfectly honest.....seems to be exact wish of so much of secular society.
My answer to your statement was:
Yes, the building block of human civilization, built on the backs of captured non-believers (Egypt) or by human sacrifice (Aztecs), ad nauseam. Religion has been used to control large groups of the have-nots by the haves. Napoleon said that religion was a fine thing to keep the common people quiet, someone else quoted that religion was what kept the poor from murdering the rich. A fine legacy, religion.
Clear, now?
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