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Post by phludowin on Dec 10, 2017 19:20:08 GMT
Thanks. I can kind of see that because He doesn't lead us into temptation. Isn't that the same thing? No. If I tell you, "Don't open that door," that's the same as "Open not that door," isn't it? But not as "Prevent us (or Satan) from opening that door".
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Post by maya55555 on Dec 10, 2017 19:22:58 GMT
gadreel
He fell victim to the very thing that I as a Roman Catholic, warned him. The "FAKE" news is quite capable of distorting anything our POPE says through a Protestant Masonic filter. Precious few of us studied Ecclesiastical Latin, and I am guilty of that also.
People need to study and understand the duties of a Pontiff. I am speaking of Roman Catholics. I have had these educated debates with my pastors.
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Post by gadreel on Dec 10, 2017 19:30:27 GMT
gadreel
He fell victim to the very thing that I as a Roman Catholic, warned him. The "FAKE" news is quite capable of distorting anything our POPE says through a Protestant Masonic filter. Precious few of us studied Ecclesiastical Latin, and I am guilty of that also.
People need to study and understand the duties of a Pontiff. I am speaking of Roman Catholics. I have had these educated debates with my pastors.
so you are saying there is no issue with the change that the pope is suggesting, that Erjen has fallen victim to fake news?
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Post by THawk on Dec 10, 2017 20:59:10 GMT
Marxists are nice people, and hey, if a man wants to be a sodomite, who is he to judge? Now the wormy little crud wants to rewrite the Lord's Prayer. Just when you thought it couldn't get any sillier. I'm not even Catholic, and I find this totally ridiculous. When I first saw the headline a few days ago I thought maybe he wanted something less gender-specific than "our Father." Maybe that's coming later. www.foxnews.com/world/2017/12/07/pope-francis-wants-to-change-line-our-father.htmlI fully support Pope Francis, but I believe this is a move actually too much toward the conservative. Conservatives do not want to imagine that things are actually pretty complicated, and maybe sometimes it is divine pulls - even God - that can push someone toward sin. Because that makes the whole "you send yourself to hell" theology problematic. But the Bible is full of instances where that exact thing is suggested in one way or another. "Lead us into temptation" is accurate, and it should prompt more discussion over doctrine.
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Post by politicidal on Dec 10, 2017 22:37:10 GMT
What the OP does not say is that Francis is not rewriting the Lord's Prayer; he wants to correct a mistranslation. What the OP also doesn't say is that this mistranslation was already corrected in France, without "news" outlets like Fox News making a fuss about it. So the Pope did not rewrite the Bible; former translators did. Damned Marxist translators!
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Post by kls on Dec 10, 2017 23:11:34 GMT
Thanks. I can kind of see that because He doesn't lead us into temptation. Isn't that the same thing? If I tell you, "Don't open that door," that's the same as "Open not that door," isn't it? It doesn't seem to be something we'd need to ask God. Maybe for help in dealing with temptation, but He won't lead us there.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Dec 11, 2017 0:08:46 GMT
Isn't that the same thing? If I tell you, "Don't open that door," that's the same as "Open not that door," isn't it? It doesn't seem to be something we'd need to ask God. Maybe for help in dealing with temptation, but He won't lead us there. I can't help feeling that there's more to it than that. I don't like him. I never liked him. Actually, I found Ratzinger a lot less creepy than this guy. Here's what the Body Language Lady has to say about Francis in case anyone is interested. I thought it was a fair assessment.
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Post by gadreel on Dec 11, 2017 1:27:19 GMT
It doesn't seem to be something we'd need to ask God. Maybe for help in dealing with temptation, but He won't lead us there. I can't help feeling that there's more to it than that. I don't like him. I never liked him. Actually, I found Ratzinger a lot less creepy than this guy. Here's what the Body Language Lady has to say about Francis in case anyone is interested. I thought it was a fair assessment. What exactly is your issue with his proposed change? It seems very reasonable to me.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 1:34:22 GMT
Just listened to the Body Language Lady. I have never heard anything so crazy. She needs to get back on her meds.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Dec 11, 2017 5:53:23 GMT
Just listened to the Body Language Lady. I have never heard anything so crazy. She needs to get back on her meds. You need to get back on your meds.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Dec 11, 2017 5:54:41 GMT
I can't help feeling that there's more to it than that. I don't like him. I never liked him. Actually, I found Ratzinger a lot less creepy than this guy. Here's what the Body Language Lady has to say about Francis in case anyone is interested. I thought it was a fair assessment. What exactly is your issue with his proposed change? It seems very reasonable to me. It's unnecessary. And it's stupid. That's why it seems very reasonable to you. Anything he does will seem very reasonable to you.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Dec 11, 2017 7:43:20 GMT
What exactly is your issue with his proposed change? It seems very reasonable to me. It's unnecessary. And it's stupid. That's not much of an argument.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Dec 11, 2017 7:54:09 GMT
It's unnecessary. And it's stupid. That's not much of an argument. Not much of an argument is needed. The prayer was fine for centuries, and now all of a sudden it needs to be revised. And why? Because "Global Warming" Francis says so. That's why.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Dec 11, 2017 8:07:28 GMT
That's not much of an argument. The prayer was fine for centuries, and now all of a sudden it needs to be revised. If by "fine" you mean "based on a bad translation," then, yeah, I guess it was "fine." Maybe the pope is just pickier about having a more accurate translation of God's Word.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Dec 11, 2017 8:12:44 GMT
The prayer was fine for centuries, and now all of a sudden it needs to be revised. If by "fine" you mean "based on a bad translation," then, yeah, I guess it was "fine." Maybe the pope is just pickier about having a more accurate translation of God's Word. And the accuracy of the translation about a prayer to a deity you don't believe in matters because _______________________________________________________.
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Post by phludowin on Dec 11, 2017 8:19:41 GMT
If by "fine" you mean "based on a bad translation," then, yeah, I guess it was "fine." Maybe the pope is just pickier about having a more accurate translation of God's Word. And the accuracy of the translation about a prayer to a deity you don't believe in matters because _______________________________________________________. ...people who do believe in this deity might care about having an accurate translation of that deity's word.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Dec 11, 2017 8:25:28 GMT
If by "fine" you mean "based on a bad translation," then, yeah, I guess it was "fine." Maybe the pope is just pickier about having a more accurate translation of God's Word. And the accuracy of the translation about a prayer to a deity you don't believe in matters because _______________________________________________________. Being a Lit-geek I find the subject of translation interesting in general. I might've noted how the old translation is more aesthetically/rhythmically pleasing (basically in iambic tetrameter, the most common meter found in pop music), which speaks to the dynamic vs formal equivalence difference in translation.
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Post by gadreel on Dec 11, 2017 17:09:37 GMT
What exactly is your issue with his proposed change? It seems very reasonable to me. It's unnecessary. And it's stupid. That's why it seems very reasonable to you. Anything he does will seem very reasonable to you. But it is a better translation, and given English common usage it moves the onus of temptation away from being God's fault which is more correct in terms of the teachings of the Bible. Are you sure you are not just having a knee jerk reaction because you don't like him and can't think clearly when it comes to his actions?
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Post by Cinemachinery on Dec 11, 2017 17:14:00 GMT
I saw this on MSN news with the same headline. When I read the article it explained that the pope is trying to correct the translation rather than the original prayer. I would not call that selling out. One must not expect a full explanation of that in a news headline. But I am surprised that Fox is taking the same approach to reporting it as MSN has. Most of the comments I see around it feature a whole lot of outrage, quite a bit of objection, but very little actual knowledge on what the "change" is (it's not a change for everyone - it's already used in Spain and some other places) ... I don't think a whole lot of people are getting past the "TEH POPE WANTS TO CHANGE TEH LORD'S PRAYER!" phase.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Dec 11, 2017 17:14:31 GMT
It's unnecessary. And it's stupid. That's why it seems very reasonable to you. Anything he does will seem very reasonable to you. But it is a better translation, and given English common usage it moves the onus of temptation away from being God's fault which is more correct in terms of the teachings of the Bible. Are you sure you are not just having a knee jerk reaction because you don't like him and can't think clearly when it comes to his actions? I'm sure that I wouldn't like this even if I liked Francis.
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